Are you implying he hasn't lost a step Pogue?
He clearly has, he's almost a step and a half slower than he was 6 or 7 years ago.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Are you implying he hasn't lost a step Pogue?
He clearly has, he's almost a step and a half slower than he was 6 or 7 years ago.
Injuries will do that to you ( not that I think he has lost that much anyway, he made a couple of drives the other night and looked very sprightly indeed).
He has never depended on pace anyway, as long as he can keep up with the play he will be fine.
He has never depended on pace anyway, as long as he can keep up with the play he will be fine.
Discounting the fact that you're wrong (he's scored lots of screamers in the past few years), who cares what types of goals he's scored? Too many people are preoccupied by the notion that Wayne's lost the fantasy element to his play. What he's gained in its place is real efficiency, which is the real key for a forward. His attacking productivity is excellent.
Lets stop yearning for Rooney to be in the elite bracket, and being disappointed that he isn't. There's no shame whatsoever in the level he now occupies. I posted earlier in this thread, or the RvP one (I forget), that since Ronaldo left, Rooney has 100 goals in 159 games. That's seriously good going, and not bad for an inconsistent fat lad.
Reading this debate, and I have to say that the 'lack of screamers' brigade are coming across as spastics. Irrespective of the fact that he's continued to score an ample number of them, he's always had great variety in terms of his goals. Look at the fabulous counter attacking goal he got against Arsenal in conjunction with Nani, for instance. That wouldn't go down as a screamer, but it was clearly a special goal.
As I just stated though, types of goals scored doesn't matter in the slightest (it's just vanity), it's all about the number.
As I just stated though, types of goals scored doesn't matter in the slightest (it's just vanity), it's all about the number.
I thought he showed his pace against city at times. Remember when Welbeck should of put him through? Was running pretty fast then. He's always been one with low acceleration but a decent top speed.
I think people are confusing a failure to live up to (enormous) expectations with an actual disimprovement. That and the tendency to remember highlight reels, instead of the actual ups and downs of a long season.
The same can be said for Anderson actually. I bet you that, game for game, he's actually played a lot better this season than he did in his first season at the club. Of course now he's a fat waste of space and back then he was a better midfielder than Fabregas. It's easy to get carried away with exciting young talents. I do it all the time. That, in turn, means people remember the potential rather than the actual performances.
The same can be said for Anderson actually. I bet you that, game for game, he's actually played a lot better this season than he did in his first season at the club. Of course now he's a fat waste of space and back then he was a better midfielder than Fabregas. It's easy to get carried away with exciting young talents. I do it all the time. That, in turn, means people remember the potential rather than the actual performances.
I agree with all that. I'm in no doubt that there's also been more invective whenever he has a dip since the contract saga. It's as though people are waiting with sharpened knives for the opportunity to have a pop. The derby is a case in point, despite the fact that Rooney actually had a decent game.
I can't speak for others, but a few years back, as soon as Rooney put pen to paper, I didn't harbour any resentment about the way he handled the situation. I was just relieved he was staying. I reckon a few too many fans are caught up in the romantic notions of one-club men who'd never dream of holding their club to ransom. I'd have done the same in Rooney's position - he recognised his vast power at that time, and he landed a bumper deal. Fair play.
Rooney is overrated in England. I am not saying that he's not a good player and all that but for many foreign neutrals they would rather have the likes of Falcao or RVP then him in their team.
Stating that, La Liga and the Serie A tend to value ball possession more then the EPL so one of Rooney's biggest assets (workrate and chasing the ball) is not as rated in these parts of world as its in Britain.
In my opinion we shouldn't sell him. Id rather see us invest all the dosh in CM and the flanks then bring in another striker. RVP had served us well and Rooney is a good competitor for him. However we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Rooney wants to leave or theres some hidden issues (injuries?) we dont know about.
Stating that, La Liga and the Serie A tend to value ball possession more then the EPL so one of Rooney's biggest assets (workrate and chasing the ball) is not as rated in these parts of world as its in Britain.
In my opinion we shouldn't sell him. Id rather see us invest all the dosh in CM and the flanks then bring in another striker. RVP had served us well and Rooney is a good competitor for him. However we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe Rooney wants to leave or theres some hidden issues (injuries?) we dont know about.
If Fergie privately concludes that Rooney's time is done at OT, then the only club he would go to is PSG.
If the likes of Anderson and Nani also depart, then a reasonable of money will come in to supplement the funding of additional transfers but a Rooney departure would definitely save on pay.
No it's not fair play
The way he handled it is a disgrace, questioning the club's ambition which means SAF ambitions as well. It's not like we're Arsenal at that time, we're still reigning champion. How would his teammate look at him playing the I'm greater than yous and claiming needs a better teammate?
Haggling is fair and stuff, but to publicly badmouthing the club for a better contract is a big no, and there's no u-turn after all said and done.
'Fair play' 
Maybe we should be praising him for the way he fecked the club about, how clever he was.
Maybe we should be praising him for the way he fecked the club about, how clever he was.
Rooney is clearly at his best when he trusts his instincts, rather than over thinks things, but he doesn't seem to do that as much as he could. I don't know if that's down to management telling him not to or a lack of confidence these days?
Rooney is rated higher on the continent than many think.
So is eating snails and throwing donkeys off churches..............
Whenever I've seen praise for him from abroad it's usually about his aggression (and passion if you want to call it that), a 'mad dog' like Gattuso used to be.
I think it's only natural for some people to have some kind of bad feeling towards Rooney. Whilst he didn't go as far as Tevez in terms of refusing to play it seems we can take some kind of moral high ground against City for bending over backwards for his demands when essentially we did do the same with Rooney, albeit we didn't let it drag on as long as the Tevez saga it was still hugely insulting. I think Rooney has unfortunately damaged his relationships with some fans and they will now get on his back but he only has himself to blame.
You're kind of right with regards to him trying to get a better contract, like it or not at the end of the day football is his job and his source of income so he's obviously going to try and get the best deal possible, it's no different to me wanting more money at work. I wouldn't refuse a better contract because of loyalty nor would I refuse another job offer for more money because I feel I owe my work something, you make the most money you can in your career and Rooney's career will be fairly short (like all footballers) compared to a "Normal" job. He's also not nor ever claimed to be a United fan so there's no real loyalty to the club.
There is however ways of going about it and he did it all wrong. Questioning the clubs ambition etc was just stupid really considering where the club was at the time, if he wanted a better deal he should of asked privately and assuming he did that then he should of done similar to someone like Yaya Toure has done who basically came out and said he wanted the money, at least then we know where we stand. Maybe "fair play" to him for getting the contract, not the way he did it though.
I'd also disagree he played well in the derby, I thought he was pretty poor myself, the least dangerous of our attacking players (maybe except Hernandez but he had no time to make an impact.)
Honestly I've heard him praised for his football intelligence by continental players more than once.
Truth be told Rooney's one problem as a player is his bottom level is so bad for a player of his ability. Which affects his overall consistency.
Please explain what's football intelligence is according to you cause I don't see alot of intelligence to drop deep in the defense and tackle when you're covering lone striker role. In my opinion, Rooney's inability to mature as a player and adapt to what his team needed from him was the main reason why he wasn't able to keep the pace with Ronaldo. He certainly had the raw talent to become as effective as the likes of Ronaldo and Messi.
I was furious when it looked as though Rooney might see out his contract and leave on the cheap. Once he signed the contract, I wasn't bothered in the slightest. His agent and him handled the whole thing really badly but I don't think he's very bright, so I can't say I'm too surprised at him failing to grasp what going public would do to his reputation amongst United fans. All that mattered to me at the time was whether or not he was committed to the club. As soon as he put pen to paper that was no longer an issue.
What I find very amusing now, though, is the fact that a lot of the most butt-hurt fans about Rooney daring to question the ambition of the club are the same people who were doing the exact same thing on a daily basis. Most of them still are.
What I find very amusing now, though, is the fact that a lot of the most butt-hurt fans about Rooney daring to question the ambition of the club are the same people who were doing the exact same thing on a daily basis. Most of them still are.
He is fairly intelligent, but even that can blow hot and cold and isn't enough in itself to make him stand out like some on here claim.
Not everyone is as fickle as you, funnily enough.
Questioning the team's ambition is one thing. Threatening to leave on cheap is another.
Not least by the people who know best. Footballers.
Messi said:
Ronaldinho said:
Shevchenko said:
That's after a quick google. I'm sure there's plenty more where those come from.
Weird the way so many fans of the club he plays for would have such different opinions...
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word fickle tbh.
We're not paid 250k/week
You expect customers to moan all day in every line of job in this world, you don't expect employee of a certain company still under contract to publicly complaint like Rooney did.
Try doing that in whatever occupation you have and 99 out of 100 it won't end well.
I invite you to reread my post. Im not saying that neutrals see him as shit. Im only saying that they would rather have someone like RVP or Falcao then him. I think I was rather clear on that....oh well.
I wasn't responding to your post. I was backing up Rubber-man's point about Rooney being very highly thought of on the continent.
Originally Posted by Messi
“It would be a dream to play with Rooney if Manchester United ever came to the point where they needed to sell him,” Messi said in the Daily Star Sunday. “I would personally go to the Barcelona president and ask that he be signed myself.
All the quotes by footballers above are in no doubt responses to questions by the English media, id expect no different responses from them and im not sure what point your trying to make by quoting them
“It would be a dream to play with Rooney if Manchester United ever came to the point where they needed to sell him,” Messi said in the Daily Star Sunday. “I would personally go to the Barcelona president and ask that he be signed myself.
All the quotes by footballers above are in no doubt responses to questions by the English media, id expect no different responses from them and im not sure what point your trying to make by quoting them
I know you would probably be singing Tevez' name over at the council house if you were one of them.
Its different though, Supporters of the club have a right to moan if they think what's going on is detrimental to the club, and as true supporters they don't seriously have the option of supporting a different team. Players can feck off somewhere else if they aren't happy.
Aye, because playing hard-ball over a new contract is exactly the same as refusing to play mid-season while you piss off round the continent, playing golf and looking for a move to a new club.
Well now that Tevez is back at the club and playing, it would all be water under the bridge to you
Well now that Tevez is back at the club and playing, it would all be water under the bridge to you
Well no, not really.
As per my last post, I think Tevez has behaved far worse than Rooney. It's not just his mid-season tour. It's the constant moaning about the city and the club and how badly he wants to move.
When he was at United he was a right little whinger too. Something I slagged him off for at the time. Especially that outburst about Fergie, right before a big FA Cup game.
Rooney's issued one ill-advised press release. One. Everything he's said and done before and since has been extremely respectful about the club, the manager and the fans.
Well now that Tevez is back at the club and playing, it would all be water under the bridge to you
To be fair I don't always see eye to eye with Pogue, but when Tevez was here he was one of his bigger critics RE moaning and talking about moving etc, even when the little scrote was playing well so I don't think it would be.
Anyone watching Rooney can't have failed to notice there's not many more committed players to the cause (I'd also put Rafael along with Rooney in that category). Obviously I'm judging (or guessing) from his body language. He seems to hurt more when results are not going United's way even more so than Giggs, Scholes, Vidic, Rio and Evra.
Reading in the Falcao thread about moving Rooney into midfield to play the 'Scholes' role if he did come. I thought we'd all agreed that Rooney is better up front than in midfield, he'd do a fantastic job there no doubt, but his natural position is up top, surely?
Messi's wrong though. Being a great player doesn't make you better at judging who is a good footballer. We all have eyes.
Are we being teenage girls here and not forgiven Rooney?
That's fair enough, but what you have to understand is that not everyone is willing to forgive and forget. It wasn't a standard contract dispute, it was seriously discrediting us at a time when City were buying everything and charging up quickly behind us, with everyone and his dog coming out of the woodwork to write us off as a force in football.
There was a real danger of him doing the unthinkable and buggering off to the other side of town. Mancini was quite furiously sniffing around the situation and I don't remember Rooney ever distancing himself from them.
I was resigned to losing him and thought feck him, let him go. It's in the past now of course and it's not exactly something I'm hung up or bothered about, but he lost a lot of credit and the benefit of the doubt in my eyes.
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