Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

[Eugenius]

100% agreed. Rooney is a fantastic number 9, but mediocre everywhere else, with the occasional great game. Hence why I disagree when people say 'he makes us tick'. He doesn't. Michael Carrick makes United tick. And SAF went out and signed someone (Kagawa) who is a more natural playmaker with a view to using Rooney in his best position.

Obviously, Kagawa is having some teething problems, and we have to find a way to fit Rooney and Van Persie in the team for the moment.

Did you manage to miss the second half of 10/11 and the whole of last season where he scored 34 goals?

Rooney is a top player, he can be lethal as a 9 or 10. His clinical touch is probably underrated, since Ronaldo left he's been getting a lot of those Ruud style goals, right place at the right time and when he gets half chances at critical moments he puts them away.

His ability to score those difficult finishes and make them look easy at important times is often overlooked, just randomly like the first time finish against Arsenal after the counter attack in 09/10, his second goal in the 4-2 comeback against West Ham in 10/11, the goal against Barca in the CL final.

He can look atrocious off form in the number 10 role but at his best he's outstanding and our most influential player. He's probably better as a 9 since he's developed that ability to score even when he's playing shite. It'll be good to see him with Welbeck more who's similarly adept at playing further up top or deeper.

 

[gza the genius]

100% agreed. Rooney is a fantastic number 9, but mediocre everywhere else, with the occasional great game. Hence why I disagree when people say 'he makes us tick'. He doesn't. Michael Carrick makes United tick. And SAF went out and signed someone (Kagawa) who is a more natural playmaker with a view to using Rooney in his best position.

Obviously, Kagawa is having some teething problems, and we have to find a way to fit Rooney and Van Persie in the team for the moment.

When Rooney plays consistently well he definitely does make us tick, most of our best play the last couple years has been with Rooney behind either Welbeck or Chicharito. The problem is that his touch just isn't consistent enough.

 

[Andrew~]

Did you manage to miss the second half of 10/11 and the whole of last season where he scored 34 goals?

Way to miss the point. Scoring goals is not the primary function of a number 10. So telling me he scored a lot of goals merely adds to my point: Rooney is a very good goalscorer. What else is new?

 

[Andrew~]

When Rooney plays consistently well he definitely does make us tick, most of our best play the last couple years has been with Rooney behind either Welbeck or Chicharito. The problem is that his touch just isn't consistent enough.

I'm not sure I agree that he's played consistently well in that position at all. I would also say the only reason he's 'made us tick' while there is because he was pretty much the only viable option we had in that position.

 

[gza the genius]

I'm not sure I agree that he's played consistently well in that position at all. I would also say the only reason he's 'made us tick' while there is because he was pretty much the only viable option we had in that position.

He definitely did when he played behind Chicharito two seasons ago and then Welbeck last year. Rooney's best seasons for us have come when he plays behind another striker, even despite him scoring 40+ the season he played up top. Even then he was inconsistent though, and it seems to be getting worse which is why I'd like to see him up top from now on and leave the creative burden to someone else.

 

[Zen86]

Way to miss the point. Scoring goals is not the primary function of a number 10. So telling me he scored a lot of goals merely adds to my point: Rooney is a very good goalscorer. What else is new?

It's quite a common occurrence in here.

 

[ciderman9000000]

The modern Rooney is more productive and scores far more goals than the old Rooney, no question. But then the old Rooney linked up and dictated the play better in my opinion. Which one people prefer is a matter of opinion, but I find these 'makes the team click' comments nonsense.

I believe the strongest evidence one can find for crediting Wayne Rooney as the heartbeat of the team is in the way we play when he's not in the team. It clearly isn't nonsense to say that Rooney makes the team click when the team rarely manages to click in his absence. Whether or not you can put his effect on the side into words or otherwise explain it, you'd have be pretty naive to not even recognise that we play so much better with Rooney than without. Personally I find it incredible that so many of you seem to underestimate Rooney with such ease, acting so blasé in your ignorance.

For those who doubt him as being a world class footballer: which football teams do you think he'd fail to make the first XI for?

 

[LR7]

He definitely did when he played behind Chicharito two seasons ago and then Welbeck last year. Rooney's best seasons for us have come when he plays behind another striker, even despite him scoring 40+ the season he played up top. Even then he was inconsistent though, and it seems to be getting worse which is why I'd like to see him up top from now on and leave the creative burden to someone else.

But what would you suggest? Rooney should play as our central striker with Kagawa in behind? Because RvP doesn't do the number 10 bit nearly good enough to play behind Rooney. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you because quite a few here argue that Rooney's best position is as a 9 (fwiw I think he does both well) I just think SAF has a hard time fitting 4 strikers and Kagawa in without playing people out of position. The only one not shifted out of position regularly is RvP. Chicharito is always played in his position but he's rarely played. Rooney, Kagawa and Welbeck all have to do wing shifts with variable frequency.

 

[Steven Seagull]

100% agreed. Rooney is a fantastic number 9, but mediocre everywhere else, with the occasional great game. Hence why I disagree when people say 'he makes us tick'. He doesn't. Michael Carrick makes United tick. And SAF went out and signed someone (Kagawa) who is a more natural playmaker with a view to using Rooney in his best position.

Obviously, Kagawa is having some teething problems, and we have to find a way to fit Rooney and Van Persie in the team for the moment.

So we bought Kagawa so we could use Rooney as a #9. Then we bought RVP to use as a #9. Then we realised we might find it difficult to play them both in the same role? Nice one Fergus.

 

[Zen86]

I believe the strongest evidence one can find for crediting Wayne Rooney as the heartbeat of the team is in the way we play when he's not in the team. It clearly isn't nonsense to say that Rooney makes the team click when the team rarely manages to click in his absence. Whether or not you can put his effect on the side into words or otherwise explain it, you'd have be pretty naive to not even recognise that we play so much better with Rooney than without. Personally I find it incredible that so many of you seem to underestimate Rooney with such ease, acting so blasé in your ignorance.

For those who doubt him as being a world class footballer: which football teams do you think he'd fail to make the first XI for?

We've not really had anyone else to be the link up man between midfield and attack until Kagawa, so I'd be interested to see him get a prolonged role in the middle with Rooney as a striker (his best position IMO).

Of course he would get into most teams first XI, but a more interesting question would be how many first XI's would he get into in the number 10 role, or the hole or whatever you want to call it.

 

[LR7]

I believe the strongest evidence one can find for crediting Wayne Rooney as the heartbeat of the team is in the way we play when he's not in the team. It clearly isn't nonsense to say that Rooney makes the team click when the team rarely manages to click in his absence. Whether or not you can put his effect on the side into words or otherwise explain it, you'd have be pretty naive to not even recognise that we play so much better with Rooney than without. Personally I find it incredible that so many of you seem to underestimate Rooney with such ease, acting so blasé in your ignorance.

For those who doubt him as being a world class footballer: which football teams do you think he'd fail to make the first XI for?

If you don't want to see something you won't, and I genuinely think a few in this thread don't want to see it.

Is there a team Rooney wouldn't start for? Genuine question.

 

[Andrew~]

He definitely did when he played behind Chicharito two seasons ago and then Welbeck last year. Rooney's best seasons for us have come when he plays behind another striker, even despite him scoring 40+ the season he played up top. Even then he was inconsistent though, and it seems to be getting worse which is why I'd like to see him up top from now on and leave the creative burden to someone else.

Well, I guess we agree then!

So we bought Kagawa so we could use Rooney as a #9. Then we bought RVP to use as a #9. Then we realised we might find it difficult to play them both in the same role? Nice one Fergus.

I think it's more like Fergie saw a player in Van Persie that he'd admired for a long time become available and decided it was too good a deal to pass up. There's nothing wrong with what he did because competition is always a good thing; this season, Van Persie and Rooney have been the better partnership and Kagawa has struggled with adapting somewhat.

So all-in-all I think Fergie made the right moves.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Yes and in any case, Kagawa really looks like a long-term buy, someone we'll probably build our attacking around but with the arrival last summer he's been given time to adapt. He's actually looked pretty good every time he played, but hasn't had the pressure to absolutely succeed during his first season, which for a player of his age and in his position, was always going to be difficult. He's not had a great season by any standards, but he's hardly been a flop either, I'm looking forward to the next few seasons cos the guy is real class and, I'm sure, will prove it on the field during the next few years.

 

[Andrew~]

If you don't want to see something you won't, and I genuinely think a few in this thread don't want to see it.

Is there a team Rooney wouldn't start for? Genuine question.

I think it's just that what people consider 'world class' has changed since the likes of Ronaldo and Messi started beasting everything in sight. It also doesn't help that Rooney was supposed to replace one of those beasts.

To me, I look at Rooney in the same context as someone like Iniesta. They are both supremely talented players who could arguably be called the 'heartbeats' of their teams. Nonetheless, there is a better player on the team: in Rooney's case, this is Van Persie and in Iniesta's case, it's Messi. Were you to take Rooney/Iniesta out of their respective teams, there would be a noticeable drop in production, but that still does not make them the best player in the squad.

The problem, to my mind, is that there are some people who post in this thread who seem to take this as an insult, and some who seem to [strangely] think we should get rid.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Yeah but whereas it's clear as day that Messi is better than Iniesta, the comparison between Rooney and RvP is much more debateable I believe.

 

[Andrew~]

Yeah but whereas it's clear as day that Messi is better than Iniesta, the comparison between Rooney and RvP is much more debateable I believe.

That's only natural because the gap isn't as large. But clearly Fergie thinks Van Persie is the better player, and I agree with him.

 

[LR7]

I think it's just that what people consider 'world class' has changed since the likes of Ronaldo and Messi started beasting everything in sight. It also doesn't help that Rooney was supposed to replace one of those beasts.

To me, I look at Rooney in the same context as someone like Iniesta. They are both supremely talented players who could arguably be called the 'heartbeats' of their teams. Nonetheless, there is a better player on the team: in Rooney's case, this is Van Persie and in Iniesta's case, it's Messi. Were you to take Rooney/Iniesta out of their respective teams, there would be a noticeable drop in production, but that still does not make them the best player in the squad.

The problem, to my mind, is that there are some people who post in this thread who seem to take this as an insult, and some who seem to [strangely] think we should get rid.

I'm not sure that's the case. Using your analogy taking Messi out of the team and Barcelona lose a lot. Over a sason all of what he contributes can't be replaced elsewhere in the team. But take RvP out of our team and last season shows were no different. Rooney scored three fewer goals lt season. There is no gulf between them as some try to make out. That's the only thing that irks. Some might think RvP is a little better, some may think Rooney is a little better it its slim margins especially in terms of productivity.

 

[LR7]

Yeah but whereas it's clear as day that Messi is better than Iniesta, the comparison between Rooney and RvP is much more debateable I believe.

Exactly! Basically what I said in a much more long winded way below!!

 

[KingEric7]

It is sort of frustrating reading these threads because, no matter what there is to be said about the excellent productivity of Wayne Rooney, there really should never have needed to be a debate as to how influential he is for us. The fact is that a player of his talent should've delivered the consistency of play to be called our 'heartbeat' without any shadow of a doubt, where as now I think it's more a case of us really missing a player of his ilk when he's not playing. When he's on form he's fantastic, when he's off form he still produces the good in terms of goals and assists.

That's the sign of an important player with quality, but whether that constitutes being a heartbeat is another matter. I do think if he ever leaves us we will realise what it is we're missing but at the same time I find it unclear at the moment how important he is. This is mostly due to not having Kagawa in his preferred position for a sustained period of time and seeing what he can offer us, but it's also because the quality of Rooney's attributes relative to the role he plays fluctuate wildly. It's these attributes that would make him our most important player without any shadow of a doubt; not just because these are the things we lack when he doesn't play, but also because we still lack them a lot when he is playing.

What I would say is that, if Kagawa hit top form behind that front man, then he would immediately become an indispensable player in this team. Perhaps more so than Rooney. Likewise, if Rooney does the same thing and starts hitting top form over the course of a few months in terms of general play and composure behind the front man, he undoubtedly becomes this heartbeat that people would consider him to be.

The reason that there is doubt is because this isn't happening just at the moment. It happened in 10/11 and he was without question that player back then, but his importance at the moment is unclear aside from the fact that we are desperately in need of more players willing to look to be in possession in those areas. He's obviously a top drawer player but what we could really do with from Rooney are things that he offers less than consistently.

That's the difference; Rooney is not inconsistent so much as he is inconsistent in offering what we could really do with more of.

 

[KM]

Terrible match today.

 

[kps88]

Wasn't the only one, etc.

Thought he was bound to come off for Kagawa/Hernandez much sooner than he did.

 

[gza the genius]

Heartbeat of the team taken off when we're pushing the hardest for a goal.

 

[Sixpence]

So-so but we need more from him. I'd never have subbed him. Bizarre from SAF.

 

[NoLogo]

Heartbeat of the team taken off when we're pushing the hardest for a goal.

Well than we were almost clinical dead.

He has been rubbish for months now, really sick of his time outs he either needs to find his balls again and start playing on the level he is capable of.

 

[Aboutreika18]

That moment where he dallied outside his own penalty area and got dispossessed summed up his performance.

 

[I'm always right]

I thought he did ok too, I must've been watching a different game to the rest of you

 

[Sojiro]

So-so but we need more from him. I'd never have subbed him. Bizarre from SAF.

Just came back from a groin injury and was on a yellow when Dean decided to hand them out for fun.

No link up with the midfield today which didn't let him really get into the game

 

[bosnian_red]

Thought he was okay. Didn't do much wrong apart from the one time he lost it in the first half at the edge of the box, but apart from that he looked sharp. Welbeck should have played him in on goal in the first half but decided to play like a headless chicken all game.
Was a bit confused at him coming off, as he seemed as likely as anyone else to get a goal.

Heartbeat of the team taken off when we're pushing the hardest for a goal.

Ferguson made some shocking decisions today, and this probably wasn't even the right one. It was Ferguson's decision to take him off, but an even worse one was keeping Giggs on in a 2 man midfield, or waiting so long to do other subs.

 

[Kevin]

What Aguero did in this match... he used to be capable of that.

 

[Sixpence]

What Aguero did in this match... he used to be capable of that.

When he was about 18 yeah.

 

[Red Dreams]

he was average at best. but he was not the only one.

Giggs in midfield with Carrick....did not help either.

I thought the match was even...the difference being that Aguero goal that was superb.

 

[gza the genius]

I thought he did ok too, I must've been watching a different game to the rest of you

I didn't think he was too bad, his touch was alright at least. He wasn't involved nearly enough though and did next to nothing with linking our play.

I just think all this heartbeat of the team stuff is funny.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Thought he was okay. Didn't do much wrong apart from the one time he lost it in the first half at the edge of the box, but apart from that he looked sharp. Welbeck should have played him in on goal in the first half but decided to play like a headless chicken all game.
Was a bit confused at him coming off, as he seemed as likely as anyone else to get a goal.



Ferguson made some shocking decisions today, and this probably wasn't even the right one. It was Ferguson's decision to take him off, but an even worse one was keeping Giggs on in a 2 man midfield, or waiting so long to do other subs.

For me took him off before he was sent off, he was not good tonight, but we dont need him with game bans this last into the season.

 

[I'm always right]

I just think all this heartbeat of the team stuff is funny.

Well obviously he's not the "heartbeat" of our team, I personally don't think we have one player who is our heartbeat.

 

[bosnian_red]

Well obviously he's not the "heartbeat" of our team, I personally don't think we have one player who is our heartbeat.

Probably I'd say it's Vidic and Carrick. Whenever one of the two are out we look a mess (in Vidic's case) defensively. Don't even want to think what our midfield would be like without Carrick. Our attack is fine if someone like Rooney or RVP is out because we have loads of depth in quality there, but not so much in midfield.

 

[gza the genius]

Well obviously he's not the "heartbeat" of our team, I personally don't think we have one player who is our heartbeat.

I agree, but plenty of others seem to think if Rooney plays then we automatically get lifted up another level which is clearly not the case.

 

[acrebo]

What Aguero did in this match... he used to be capable of that.

Quite a simple statement but I know what you mean.

Remember those days when the ball would drop to him on a 2-on-1 counter attack and you just knew he'd play the perfect ball to put his teammate through? Doesn't happen much anymore.

As said, he was 'okay'. He played with effort and passion but not enough application. The lofted cross/shot into Hart's arms when we had the ball in a good area was infuriating and too frequent an occurrence now.

 

[I'm always right]

Probably I'd say it's Vidic and Carrick. Whenever one of the two are out we look a mess (in Vidic's case) defensively. .

I would've agreed with Vidic a few years ago, no longer. Still doesn't look the same player to me.

 

[AttackingFlair]

He wasn't worse than any of our other forwards and he's just come back from an injury having missed two games previously.

Did well to make one of our best chances for RVP in the first half and can feel a bit hard done by not being played through by Welbeck.

 

[Platato]

Although I'm a harsh critic of Rooney, I can't be too mad at him. Just back from injury and very little help from his teammates. He wasn't great but he gets a pass from me. Still not our heartbeat mind