Best's issues with the club are forgotten. 50 years down, so will Rooney's. Some people here want their footballers to be saints when they would do the same thing in a heartbeat.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
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Best's issues with the club are forgotten. 50 years down, so will Rooney's. Some people here want their footballers to be saints when they would do the same thing in a heartbeat.
Meh. I'm quite indifferent to someone like Best. As far as I know he was a great player for us, and if the people who were around back then consider him a legend, then that's fine by me.
As someone alluded to (Eyepopper), the game was different back then, and there probably was much less press scrutiny of players than today. And he's right, Best probably would have been hounded of the game if he was playing today; by all accounts he was incredibly unprofessional, and the way he acted in general.
Personally, I think someone like Bobby Charlton is what people should look to when thinking about players who we consider 'legends', because he represents what the club stands for. Does Rooney? I don't think so. And I look around our squad, I don't think many of them live up to that standard. Not even Giggs, now that I think about it - but I grew up watching him play so it's very difficult to divest that opinion of him from my head.
Being a club legend, to me, should be about more than just being a great player. The only person I can think of right now who's up there is Vidic.
And Scholes
Do you have to go to the extremes to prove your point. Did I say it's ok to do all those things?
I was simply, or so I thought, explaining the difference between bad behaviour born out of addiction and that born out of chasing the pound signs.
When Rooney retires or leaves, I think those who aren't too happy with him will have a much different view on him and his contributions to United. When a player is still playing for us they invite more criticism because we're forming a different opinion on almost a weekly basis and not looking at their career as a whole. It's like Veron, Berbatov or Park, who were blasted on a weekly basis and called a flop, not good enough or shit, but when they left, we've softened our stance and come up with good player/bad fit and other positives.
Calling a somone a club legend is open to interpretation and people have different criterias. But theres no doubt in my mind that Manchester United will consider him a club legend and put him in the same bracket as the likes of Charlton, Cantona and Giggs.
Calling a somone a club legend is open to interpretation and people have different criterias. But theres no doubt in my mind that Manchester United will consider him a club legend and put him in the same bracket as the likes of Charlton, Cantona and Giggs.
Well said.
I keep hearing questions about how Rooney will handle returning to the scene of his 2011 red card vs Montenegro.
What the feck is that all about?
Since when do players become more prone to further red cards at stadiums in which they've received them previously? The whole thing's a complete non-issue.
What the feck is that all about?
Since when do players become more prone to further red cards at stadiums in which they've received them previously? The whole thing's a complete non-issue.
Completely agree, talk about scraping the barrel. With Rooney's temperament the way it is these days (and has been for years and years now), he's basically no more likely to get a red than any of our players, and probably a good deal less likely than any of theirs.
Journalists are desperate for something to write about until the real football resumes.
It is just another part of the unrelenting bullshit that Rooney has to put up with from the English press.
To be honest the whole international break has been cliche after cliche. Before san marino it was "We won't underestimate our opponents" and then after the thrashing the inevitable "status of minnows in international sport" chat crops up. Then the Mont. manager says some drivel about England "running scared" which the media lap up like we give a shit. Hodgson then says it's all "mind games" which again is another tripe story and Gerrard says "we won't be fazed" which once more makes the headlines. Now the Rooney crap *yawn*
Good post. It's often hard to be objective when assessing your own of course, and may posts are an extreme at one end of the spectrum or the other.
Fair piont, but I don't think the examples are great.
Veron maybe is looked back on a little more fondly than when he was here, but everybody knew exactly what we did and didn't have with Berbatov, while Park was largely adored, and has if anything surprised most of us with his lack of impact at QPR.
Veron maybe is looked back on a little more fondly than when he was here, but everybody knew exactly what we did and didn't have with Berbatov, while Park was largely adored, and has if anything surprised most of us with his lack of impact at QPR.
To be honest there isn't really any consensus amongst United fans regarding Rooney anyway. I don't think we can make up our minds what level we feel he is on, and just how good we think he is.
I have my own view, but I have read many views that think he is both better and worse than I do. I think he divides opinion as much as any United man.
I have my own view, but I have read many views that think he is both better and worse than I do. I think he divides opinion as much as any United man.
Rooney is a top quality Manchester United player. Had he not had his terrible few months of some very bad personal and professional decisions, we would not be having this debate. But given his wife and our manger have forgiven him for those, who are we to still harbour grudges?
He may not reach the potential same though he could, but he is easily one of our most consistently influential players. He would be virtually irreplaceable in what he provides the squad.
I hope he retires with us.
He may not reach the potential same though he could, but he is easily one of our most consistently influential players. He would be virtually irreplaceable in what he provides the squad.
I hope he retires with us.
I don't think he's what I'd call a great player, personally. I think he once had the potential to be that player, but I think he has found himself a very good level, better than most - but I don't see a 'footballing genius' when I watch him, in the way that I did when he was younger.
Putting aside stats for a second, and just focussing on ability - I don't think he has the grace on the ball that I would associate with great #10s. His close control isn't good enough, his agility and ability to drift out of tight situations isn't there, nor a general ability to beat men.
I think he is a bit wierd in the sense that I think his skill-set is either suited to playing as a 'number 8' in a proper midfield role, or as a 9 in a proper striker role. The irony is that the #10 is often referred to as the 'Rooney-role' by many of our fans, but I feel this is the one role out of the 8,9 and 10 that requires the most grace and individual ability to play and consistently change the game. When afforded lots of space, he can be devastating. Spreading the ball left, right and centre - Rooney can do it as well as any. However, that touch of Ryan Giggs in the final third to produce magic, or where the touch needs to be just right - I don't think he has that raw genius.
Overall, I think when coupled with his longevity, he has provided an average of 8 out of 10 performances over several years - he will certainly go down as a United great.
Putting aside stats for a second, and just focussing on ability - I don't think he has the grace on the ball that I would associate with great #10s. His close control isn't good enough, his agility and ability to drift out of tight situations isn't there, nor a general ability to beat men.
I think he is a bit wierd in the sense that I think his skill-set is either suited to playing as a 'number 8' in a proper midfield role, or as a 9 in a proper striker role. The irony is that the #10 is often referred to as the 'Rooney-role' by many of our fans, but I feel this is the one role out of the 8,9 and 10 that requires the most grace and individual ability to play and consistently change the game. When afforded lots of space, he can be devastating. Spreading the ball left, right and centre - Rooney can do it as well as any. However, that touch of Ryan Giggs in the final third to produce magic, or where the touch needs to be just right - I don't think he has that raw genius.
Overall, I think when coupled with his longevity, he has provided an average of 8 out of 10 performances over several years - he will certainly go down as a United great.
Broadly agree.
I've always felt that the last metatarsal injury - or his stupid determination to pretend that he hadn't actually broken his foot, and dance the night away at David Beckhams birthday party, and play for England in the 2006 World Cup - ended Rooney's chance to be a great player. After that, his touch, long range shooting etc. were never the same.
Before the injury, Fergie talked about Rooney as a future BPITW; afterwards, he was silent.
I wonder how he had a world class season in 09/10 if he lost it in 2006 then.
He retained about 50% of his game - power, pace, vision, passing, instinct and intelligence.... That was enough in the right role.
He admitted himself he changed his game, without acknowledging the real reason. Not many 20 year olds suddenly start playing like 35 year olds.
His motivation has been shot for a couple of years now. A motivated Rooney would be an outstanding footballer on Iniesta/Xavi levels or higher.
I thought he was a different player from that season on. Despite it being a fantastic season (scoring bucket loads of headers, which is wasn't renowned for), he became an out and out striker and seemed to lose most of his playmaking abilities since.
He doesn't have Xavi/Iniesta levels of ability though.
The truth is it does upset me a bit because the Rooney aged under 23 was a player I thought people all over the world would be tuning in to watch, and would be winning games on his own and producing magic regularly.
Now, as a United fan, he is one of the players I hope/expect to score when I watch us, but not really one that I expect to 'wow' me. That said, if he can still maintain this standard for another 4 years or so, I'll be more than pleased (assuming he is still with us), and I will settle for him being a consistent goalscorer and great team-player gladly.
He doesn't have Iniesta/Xavi levels of ability because he hasn't been as motivated as those two, which explains the inconsistency in performances. His top level is pretty outstanding, if he could maintain that, which it's clear by now he can't, then he is with those two IMO. He's got pretty good stats this year despite being way below his best.
You honestly think he played like a 35 year old that season? He was running defences ragged. Don't really see many 35 year olds scoring 34 goals in a season either.
Zen86 said:
Second half of 10/11 shows he didn't lose it after that.
This weren't bad in the 09/10 season either.
From the start of 2011 until he got sent off in Montenegro was Rooney's peak. Clearly the best he's ever been, and it was recognised in his coming fifth in the Ballon D'or that year.
That was a little over a year ago, so I've nary a fecking clue what some of the comments in this thread are about.
That was a little over a year ago, so I've nary a fecking clue what some of the comments in this thread are about.
Well speaking for myself,comes from watching him play football very regularly. His goals record when he scored 34 for instance can be gathered from reading a book.
He doesn't excite me. Like tonight, I would not be suprised at all if he scores against Montenegro. However, in terms of magic/entertainment - I would be watching Jovetic. Once upon a time, I expected so much more from Rooney. I am content with what he has become, because it is still very good and an asset to us. That said, contrary to what many think, I don't think he's irreplaceable.
did you just see that chip?
Yep, was brilliant. Forget everything I've said now.
The best thing is the people who say things like "putting aside the stats for a minute" as if scoring just under a goal a game wouldn't in itself make him one of the best players in the world.
It would also make Darren Bent a great player.
We are not disputing Rooney is very good anyway. However, looking past the goals will tell you just how good. There has always been, and always will be, countless players who score lots of goals.
A game like the one against Chelsea a week or so ago where Rooney scored come about too frequently. In a few months time, those speaking of his greatness will simply chalk that game up as another stat, in which he 'scored'. Those who watched the game though, will tell you there was no great player out there in a United #10 shirt. If those games were just once in a blue moon, then it wouldn't matter. However, they come about too frequently, so goal or no goal (the goal itself was rather fortunate!) - it isn't enough to indicate 'greatness.
How many goals does Bent have?
Over the last four season Wayne Rooney has scored 100 goals for his club, and Darren Bent has scored 60. It's a ridiculous comparison.
What, tonight? Over the last 5 years?
Anyone who watches the Premier League will know he scores goals regularly when he plays.
In any case, I'm unsure as to what point you are trying to make, but the reason Darren Bent is not as good as Rooney is NOT down to the fact Rooney scores more goals than him (if indeed he does), so I don't understand the significance of trying to establish the actual amount Bent scores. If I must, I'm sure I can find you a striker who definitely scores more than Rooney who isn't as good as him.
In how many games?
Again, I don't get the significance of your point anyway. Is Rooney better than Bent because he has scored more goals in the last 4 years?
The point of the goals is that even if was merely a goalscorer, if he did absolutely nothing else (like Bent), he'd still be a world class player because he scores so many, many goals.
But he does much, much more than score goals. Are you watching him tonight at all perchance? His passing has been excellent.
But he does much, much more than score goals. Are you watching him tonight at all perchance? His passing has been excellent.
He doesn't score enough to be one of the best players in the world on goals alone. He scores a lot, but not one a ridiculous amount. And yes, I am watching Rooney tonight and he has been excellent, which pleases me. He generally passes the ball very well anyway, as I mentioned above. He could easily play central midfield.
But he does score a ridiculous amount of goals. In recent seasons he's been achieving feats even Ruud never did.
I blame Messi...
I blame Messi...
It's always hard to make the point online that you think a player is very good, just not ridiculously good. It always comes across as not thinking the player is good at all. Or 'hating' the player, on Redcafe.
By "he" are you referring to Rooney? If so, what feats has he achieved in recent seasons that Ruud never did?
This isverbatim from a discussion during the summer:
Since the premier league was reduced to 38 games, six players have managed to score more than 25 goals in a season. Those players are Alan Shearer, Robbie Fowler, Kevin Phillips, Cristiano Ronaldo, Didier Drogba and Robin Van Persie. A further two players have managed the feat twice. One of those players is Thierry Henry, and the other is, of course, Wayne Rooney.
Since the premier league was reduced to 38 games, six players have managed to score more than 25 goals in a season. Those players are Alan Shearer, Robbie Fowler, Kevin Phillips, Cristiano Ronaldo, Didier Drogba and Robin Van Persie. A further two players have managed the feat twice. One of those players is Thierry Henry, and the other is, of course, Wayne Rooney.
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