Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

[Eyepopper]

Memories are short aren't they.

Cristiano Ronaldo has stoked further controversy after insisting he agrees with Fifa president Sepp Blatter’s comments that he is being treated like a modern-day slave by *Manchester United.

Honestly though, who really gives a shit about this sort of stuff, it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have too much bearing on how we as fans judge players.

Players should be judged by fans based on what they do on the pitch. Contracts and the rest are up to the club who deal with players up close and personal, not speculated on by fans who really don't know what they're talking about and mainly base their opinions on tabloid nonsense.

'Rooneys a wanker, I've never met him like but well in interviews he comes across as a walker' - right, who knows, maybe he is.

Maybe his contract 'saga' genuinely was him disrespecting the club or maybe it was a salary negotiation (which most of us have probably engaged in ourselves) that Fergie decided to make public in an effort to call his bluff. Point is we, as fans will never know for sure, so for me basing your opinion on that sort of stuff is utterly pointless.

I always think of people running up to and abusing actors based on their characters.

 

[Chabon]

There's pretty substantial evidence that Rooney actually believed that shite he was spouting (Stretford on the other hand...) I've forgiven him for it, much like I've forgiven Ronaldo for his deluded dream which actually did see him force his way out. Footballers are human, and mostly they're a bit thick.

No you're right, the club he'd recently won the CL and
ballon d'or with wasn't big enough for him to become a great player.

So your evidence that Ronaldo is a Madrid fan is that he joined them? I guess he was a United fan when he was 18 then.

 

[moses]

Point is we, as fans will never know for sure.

I thought that before I signed up here.

 

[moses]

So your evidence that Ronaldo is a Madrid fan is that he joined them? I guess he was a United fan when he was 18 then.

Go to one of the thousands of Ronaldo threads lads.

 

[Adebesi]

Because Chabon said he wasn't a Madrid fan to begin with. Zen said every Spain/Portugal player are fans of Barca and Madrid.

This could take the conversation on a tangent about the nature of being a fan, being a fan or "Barca and Madrid" is arguably a contradiction in terms but yes clearly they are seen as the pinnacle of achievement for players from Iberia, but then the same could be said of most of Europe - those clubs are more glamorous and prestigious than us. If Vidic decided Barca was a step up for him because as a kid he saw it, alongside Madrid, as the biggest club team in the world, would that make him a Barca fan? Would it be seen as less disloyal to us because as a kid he pictured himself playing for Barca but never thought about United?

I dont see this Portuguese / Spanish get out clause has any validity or relevance to be honest. Ronaldo played for us, he was winning things, he left to further his own career, he was NOT a Madrid fan according to anything I remember or have been able to find published from more than 2 years before he actually left. Not that I hold it against him, but then neither am I crying about Rooney's so-called betrayal.

 

[Zen86]

I don't understand why we're talking about Ronaldo anyway. Him and Rooney both acted like cnuts, one of them's still here and the other isn't.

 

[Brwned]

Why would we hesitate to give Rooney top-level wages at 29 when we've just went out and signed van Persie at 29 to a 4 year contract?

 

[Eyepopper]

Because we're still butt hurt.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

To be fair Rooney is has and probably always will be one of those players that polarizes opinions more than most others, and that is in no small part down to the huge gap between his highest and lowest standards, his off field antics and his perceived fitness/professional standards, (note I said perceived, Im not saying it is fact)

For some it is all about the end result, goals assists etc, for others its more about how players represent the club, both on and off the field, even those of us who expect more in behavior and attitude from him are capable (in general) of recognizing what an influential player he has been, and what he brings to the side. Rooney as a total package though will always be marmite.

 

[Eyepopper]

For me it's all about consistency and the validity of critical opinions as criticism is obviously more damaging than praise.

If you want to lambast someone for something at least base it on a more solid foundation that 'rumours' about his fitness, and apply the same standards to others.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

For me it's all about consistency and the validity of critical opinions as criticism is obviously more damaging than praise.

If you want to lambast someone for something at least base it on a more solid foundation that 'rumours' about his fitness, and apply the same standards to others.

Its not entirely rumors though is it, there have been more than one season where anyone with eyes can see he isn't ready after being pictured over the summer smoking and eating junk food. For a person with a working life of about 15 ish years and given the rewards on offer and the fact he will still be a young man when he retires with the time and money to do whatever his heart desires that lack of commitment and sacrifice in the off season speaks volumes.

 

[finneh]

Except it was Fergie who went public so none of that stand up.

Mad isn't it, it's almost like lots of people post, all with different opinions.

It was all over the weekend papers before Fergie came out. It was obvious that it'd been leaked to the papers at perfectly the right time, almost certainly by Rooney's camp as leverage. They picked a time shortly after the transfer window had closed, 3 months before it was due to reopen again so that the saga could drag on for months if required.

If he did it in August there was a chance that Fergie would have told him where to go and flogged him within a week. Doing it in October meant he could de-stabalise the team and gain maximum media coverage for months, potentially at the expense of our title and cup aspirations.

Why would we hesitate to give Rooney top-level wages at 29 when we've just went out and signed van Persie at 29 to a 4 year contract?

Presumably because RVP and Rooney are incomparable in that respect. I can't remember the last time someone with Rooney's build who is so reliant on his work ethic and fitness had a career from 17 until mid 30's. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking there is a good chance he will drop off a cliff in his early 30's.

It's like comparing Sheringham and Yorke. It was obvious that the latter wouldn't play competitively into his mid 30's and I'd say the same is true of Rooney.

 

[Garethw]

A lot of the posters on here are probably too young to remember Roy Keane holding the club to ransom over his wage demands back in the 1999-2000 season.

I remember reading how he had all but signed with Bayern Munich on a free transfer because we were refusing to break our pay structure to give him the £50k a week he was demanding.

In the end the club cracked and gave him what he wanted.

How is that any different from the Rooney saga? At least if Rooney had gone we'd have got a decent transfer fee for him (unlike Keane).

Rooney will go down as one of the great Manchester United players and will probably become the clubs greatest ever goalscorer.

It sickens me when I come on here and read page after page of fanboy love for Ronaldo, a player that fecked us over as soon as he became consistent, and page after page of abuse for Rooney.

All I can say is that anyone that seriously wants us to sell Rooney isn't really a Manchester United fan because selling him would considerably weaken us.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

A lot of the posters on here are probably too young to remember Roy Keane holding the club to random over his wage demands back in the 1999-2000 season.

I remember reading how he had all but signed with Bayern Munich on a free transfer because we were refusing to break our pay structure to give him the £50k a week he was demanding.

In the end the club cracked and gave him what he wanted.

How is that any different from the Rooney saga? At least if Rooney had gone we'd have got a decent transfer fee for him (unlike Keane).

Rooney will go down as one of the great Manchester United players and will probably become the clubs greatest ever goalscorer.

It sickens me when I come on here and read page after page of fanboy love for Ronaldo, a player that fecked us over as soon as he became consistent, and page after page of abuse for Rooney.

All I can say is that anyone that seriously wants us to sell Rooney isn't really a Manchester United fan because selling him would considerably weaken us.

The thing is that is far more debatable now than at any point during his Utd career to date. Who can replace him as an AM, Kagawa, who could score the goals he does, Between RVP and Hernandez I have no worries there, the only thing we dont have is another player who is quite as versatile as he is. Dont get me wrong, we are a better team with him but I dont think we are CONSIDERABLY weaker without.

 

[Adebesi]

It was all over the weekend papers before Fergie came out. It was obvious that it'd been leaked to the papers at perfectly the right time, almost certainly by Rooney's camp as leverage. They picked a time shortly after the transfer window had closed, 3 months before it was due to reopen again so that the saga could drag on for months if required.

If he did it in August there was a chance that Fergie would have told him where to go and flogged him within a week. Doing it in October meant he could de-stabalise the team and gain maximum media coverage for months, potentially at the expense of our title and cup aspirations.

Having Paul Stretford as his agent does count against him, I agree with that. Which is to say, all of that was down to Stretford, and the ultimate responsibility for Stretford's actions on behalf of Rooney lies with Rooney himself. Yet that being the case, in the real world it is perfectly obvious Rooney has no input to these kinds of decisions, he is a simple man, quite literally, by all accounts his father and Stretford make these decisions for him, so reading any malicious intent on Rooney's part into that negotiating strategy is misguided.

Having said that, it is done now, I still dont see the point in holding this against him now. There was a perfectly strong case for telling Rooney to go feck himself at that time, but we didnt do that, we caved in to his demands and he has since reestablished himself as one of our most important players.

 

[Eyepopper]

It's Eyepopper's thing, if you don't agree with him it's because you read the sun.

Its not entirely rumors though is it, there have been more than one season where anyone with eyes can see he isn't ready after being pictured over the summer smoking and eating junk food. For a person with a working life of about 15 ish years and given the rewards on offer and the fact he will still be a young man when he retires with the time and money to do whatever his heart desires that lack of commitment and sacrifice in the off season speaks volumes.

How do you know it isn't 1 or 2 weeks off diet and training regime over the summer?

If there were serious reoccurring issues to the extent that people go on about there isn't a chance in hell he'd still be here, and by all accounts (admittedly Mark Lawerenson) Rooney is now more of a family man, more likely to have a kick about with his kid than go boozing these days so I doubt it's some new phenomenon.

 

[acnumber9]

A lot of the posters on here are probably too young to remember Roy Keane holding the club to ransom over his wage demands back in the 1999-2000 season.

I remember reading how he had all but signed with Bayern Munich on a free transfer because we were refusing to break our pay structure to give him the £50k a week he was demanding.

In the end the club cracked and gave him what he wanted.

How is that any different from the Rooney saga? At least if Rooney had gone we'd have got a decent transfer fee for him (unlike Keane).

Rooney will go down as one of the great Manchester United players and will probably become the clubs greatest ever goalscorer.

It sickens me when I come on here and read page after page of fanboy love for Ronaldo, a player that fecked us over as soon as he became consistent, and page after page of abuse for Rooney.

All I can say is that anyone that seriously wants us to sell Rooney isn't really a Manchester United fan because selling him would considerably weaken us.

Roy Keane didn't question the clubs ambition. The minute he did something similar he was released. I think Utd fans have been quite forgiving of Rooney.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

How do you know it isn't 1 or 2 weeks off diet and training regime over the summer?

If there were serious reoccurring issues to the extent that people go on about there isn't a chance in hell he'd still be here, and by all accounts (admittedly Mark Lawerenson) Rooney is now more of a family man, more likely to have a kick about with his kid than go boozing these days so I doubt it's some new phenomenon.

But when you are a professional athlete surely the margins between performance levels are minute....and in that case isnt that 1 or 2 weeks a big difference? Im out of my comfort zone here so I admit I could be entirely wrong, but surely that 1 or 2 weeks could be the difference between starting the season in peak condition and not?

 

[Zen86]

How do you know it isn't 1 or 2 weeks off diet and training regime over the summer?

If there were serious reoccurring issues to the extent that people go on about there isn't a chance in hell he'd still be here, and by all accounts (admittedly Mark Lawerenson) Rooney is now more of a family man, more likely to have a kick about with his kid than go boozing these days so I doubt it's some new phenomenon.

I've no idea what he gets up to over the summer, but I can't say I'm impressed with the pictures of him fag and beer in hand and then looking unfit and slow at the start of pretty much every season.

But then it's just Rooney, he needs a while to get into rhythm so it's ok.

 

[SteveJ]

The new contract negotiations, whenever they happen, will answer all our questions & doubts. Rooney's reps will surely try to posit him as more than just a player - a brand - and will speculate that other clubs would pay him an incredible salary (partially just for the publicity-value of having signed him); they will expect United to match those figures. Meanwhile, United will do what they think is best for them & rightly so. So, if Wayne has learned lessons from the last time, he'll sign...even at a reduced wage; if, however, he lets his representatives set the tone, he'll likely be gone.

Thus posted Captain Bleedin' Obvious.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

The new contract negotiations, whenever they happen, will answer all our questions & doubts. Rooney's reps will surely try to posit him as more than just a player - a brand - and will speculate that other clubs would pay him an incredible salary (partially just for the publicity-value of having signed him); they will expect United to match those figures. Meanwhile, United will do what they think is best for them & rightly so. So, if Wayne has learned lessons from the last time, he'll sign...even at a reduced wage; if, however, he lets his representatives set the tone, he'll likely be gone.

Thus posted Captain Bleedin' Obvious.

Nicely summerised

 

[ninety]

Right now I'm so thankful that we've got him in the squad. He's kind of like having an insurance policy taken out on all our forward positions. The goals have dried up for RVP, but in Wayne we've got someone who has comparable finishing ability and ability to play as a number 9. Hernandez has done well when called upon, but I would regard Rooney has the far more reliable finisher.

I think moving Rooney on at the end of the season would create more problems that it could solve. Two to three years down the track I'd argue it'd be Rooney over RVP who's still banging in the goals like they are now. That's nothing against RVP, who up until this point as been brilliant.

 

[Adebesi]

The new contract negotiations, whenever they happen, will answer all our questions & doubts. Rooney's reps will surely try to posit him as more than just a player - a brand - and will speculate that other clubs would pay him an incredible salary (partially just for the publicity-value of having signed him); they will expect United to match those figures. Meanwhile, United will do what they think is best for them & rightly so. So, if Wayne has learned lessons from the last time, he'll sign...even at a reduced wage; if, however, he lets his representatives set the tone, he'll likely be gone.

Thus posted Captain Bleedin' Obvious.

Is there any indication at all that Paul Stretford is not totally in control of all things related to his contract? As far as I know there isnt, and he is. After all, he played his last hand pretty well in terms of winning Rooney the pay rise they felt he was entitled to.

In which case, by your logic, he will probably be gone.

 

[londonredmaniac]

The new contract negotiations, whenever they happen, will answer all our questions & doubts. Rooney's reps will surely try to posit him as more than just a player - a brand - and will speculate that other clubs would pay him an incredible salary (partially just for the publicity-value of having signed him); they will expect United to match those figures. Meanwhile, United will do what they think is best for them & rightly so. So, if Wayne has learned lessons from the last time, he'll sign...even at a reduced wage; if, however, he lets his representatives set the tone, he'll likely be gone.

Thus posted Captain Bleedin' Obvious.

Why would he sign on a reduced wage?

 

[finneh]

A lot of the posters on here are probably too young to remember Roy Keane holding the club to ransom over his wage demands back in the 1999-2000 season.

I remember reading how he had all but signed with Bayern Munich on a free transfer because we were refusing to break our pay structure to give him the £50k a week he was demanding.

In the end the club cracked and gave him what he wanted.

How is that any different from the Rooney saga? At least if Rooney had gone we'd have got a decent transfer fee for him (unlike Keane).

Rooney will go down as one of the great Manchester United players and will probably become the clubs greatest ever goalscorer.

It sickens me when I come on here and read page after page of fanboy love for Ronaldo, a player that fecked us over as soon as he became consistent, and page after page of abuse for Rooney.

All I can say is that anyone that seriously wants us to sell Rooney isn't really a Manchester United fan because selling him would considerably weaken us.

The Roy Keane (like the Ferdinand) affair was simple. He wanted to be paid x and if the club weren't prepared to pay him it he would have looked for a club that would. I have nothing against a player feeling he is worth more than the club are prepared to offer and so not signing until he is offered sufficient. Players' careers usually last around a decade and earning as much as possible in that time doesn't offend me in the slightest.

Rooney's case was far more calculating, damaging and embarrassing for the club, though. As I said Rooney waited until after a transfer window closed to make his statement, leaving Fergie and the board with 2 options. Option 1: Keep an unhappy player for nearly 3 months who has already proven he is quite happy talking to the media; dealing with the constant "Rooney to City" "Rooney to Chelsea" etc, whilst him either playing like shit or not playing at all - either of which would be damaging to our title and cup aspirations. Option 2: Pay him more than we otherwise would to prevent it harming our campaign.

To me Keane/Feridnand was: pay me what I'm worth or I'll leave. Rooney's was: Pay me what I'm worth or the next 3 months will be a damaging media circus with me as the main performer.

In terms of the bolded it depends on our transfer activities. We could sell Rooney and invest in another player and have a stronger squad as a whole in my opinion.

Having Paul Stretford as his agent does count against him, I agree with that. Which is to say, all of that was down to Stretford, and the ultimate responsibility for Stretford's actions on behalf of Rooney lies with Rooney himself. Yet that being the case, in the real world it is perfectly obvious Rooney has no input to these kinds of decisions, he is a simple man, quite literally, by all accounts his father and Stretford make these decisions for him, so reading any malicious intent on Rooney's part into that negotiating strategy is misguided.

Having said that, it is done now, I still dont see the point in holding this against him now. There was a perfectly strong case for telling Rooney to go feck himself at that time, but we didnt do that, we caved in to his demands and he has since reestablished himself as one of our most important players.

The reason we didn't do it at the time (in my opinion) was due to firstly the aforementioned - ie him putting us in a terrible no-win situation and secondly due to the fact that he was the biggest name. If he tried it on again nowadays I feel he'll be told where to go, given that letting him go wouldn't be anywhere near as damaging nowadays.

Why would he sign on a reduced wage?

Contract security. A 5 year deal on a 10% lower wage might be more desirable than a 1 year extension on the same wage.

 

[Rowem]

I made a sarcastic comparison between Ronaldo and Rooney and its sparked another pointless debate based on nothing. Point is far too much attention is given to what players do or don't do off the pitch. Frankly I think people see what they want to see in order to fit their pre-existing opinion/agenda.

Eyepopper sums up what I think:

Memories are short aren't they.

Honestly though, who really gives a shit about this sort of stuff, it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have too much bearing on how we as fans judge players.

Players should be judged by fans based on what they do on the pitch. Contracts and the rest are up to the club who deal with players up close and personal, not speculated on by fans who really don't know what they're talking about and mainly base their opinions on tabloid nonsense.

'Rooneys a wanker, I've never met him like but well in interviews he comes across as a walker' - right, who knows, maybe he is.

Maybe his contract 'saga' genuinely was him disrespecting the club or maybe it was a salary negotiation (which most of us have probably engaged in ourselves) that Fergie decided to make public in an effort to call his bluff. Point is we, as fans will never know for sure, so for me basing your opinion on that sort of stuff is utterly pointless.

I always think of people running up to and abusing actors based on their characters.

The most ridiculous thing is when a player is interviewed and asked a fairly innocuous question, gives a fairly innocuous answer and then the press chop the quotes up and adds an extravagant headline (player A blasts club!!!!) and then dozens of people come screaming in here 'who does he think he is mouthing off he's not even good enough at football to have an opinion on the matter/should spend more time training than chatting shit'.

No, in fact, the MOST ridiculous thing is that all this speculation regarding Rooney has come from the media created idea that Rooney is off because he was benched vs. Madrid. The media saw an opportunity for a story, based off nothing, and everyone takes the bait, creating an on-going issue from thin air.

 

[Chabon]

Over the last six games we've taken a marginal 5 point lead and turned it into a title-clinching 15 point lead. We've done that by taking 24 points from 24 available, and Wayne Rooney has won us exactly half of those points.

I think, in fact, that the most ridiculous thing is that even after something like that there are still people saying we'd be absolutely fine if we sold him.

 

[Adebesi]

I think both of them are pretty damn ridiculous to be honest, splitting hairs to choose between them.

 

[Orton]

Over the last six games we've taken a marginal 5 point lead and turned it into a title-clinching 15 point lead. We've done that by taking 24 points from 24 available, and Wayne Rooney has won us exactly half of those points.

I think, in fact, that the most ridiculous thing is that even after something like that there are still people saying we'd be absolutely fine if we sold him.

If we sold him, and signed suitable replacements then we probably would be fine. When Ronaldo left (he was our best player by a mile) we survived didn't we? On course to win the 2nd title in 4 years since he left. It's like saying we wouldn't be 15 clear if RVP didn't win us so many points in the first half of the season, how do we know? It's obviously best to keep Rooney as he's one of our best players but if he left, I don't think the team's form/performances would drop much.

 

[Andrew~]

I don't know how people can consider most of these modern players as 'club legends'. I like them and all, but most of them are such complete twats I find it difficult to attach any kind of respect or the kind of love some are showing for Rooney in this thread.

After Scholes and Giggs retire, no one will be worthy of being considered a club legend, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Eyepopper]

Of course the club would survive but what exactly would the point be in selling him?

We sold Ronaldo for 2 reasons

1 - he wanted to go
2 - we got silly money for him


Rooney is obviously happy at Utd, hes one of our best players year in year out, and the next few years should see the peak of his career, so again, what exactly would the point of selling him be?

Aside from all the nonsense in the press that Fergie has dismissed.

 

[RDCR07]

I don't know how people can consider most of these modern players as 'club legends'. I like them and all, but most of them are such complete twats I find it difficult to attach any kind of respect or the kind of love some are showing for Rooney in this thread.

After Scholes and Giggs retire, no one will be worthy of being considered a club legend, as far as I'm concerned.

His only trouble has been the contract negotiations for which he has apologized again and again. Thats basically the only mistake he has made so far. He has otherwise been a thorough professional and has done brilliantly in his time at Old Trafford. If he goes onto top Charlton's record, are you honestly telling me he will not be a legend?

 

[Chabon]

George Best, as much as we all love him, was little short of an absolute bastard most of his life. And not just in his personal life, he treated the club very shabbily as well at times. Nobody's going to dispute that he's a legend, are they?

 

[Adebesi]

I was going to make a similar point Chabon. Massive lack of perspective here from some people.

 

[Eyepopper]

George Best, as much as we all love him, was little short of an absolute bastard most of his life. And not just in his personal life, he treated the club very shabbily as well at times. Nobody's going to dispute that he's a legend, are they?

Quite.

Can you imagine the press if he was playing today? He'd be hounded out of the game.

 

[wr8_utd]

This nonsense that keeps coming up about him being a smoker and an alcoholic really frustrates me. How many times have we seen this exactly? Maybe once a summer when he's on holiday? Hell, I remember seeing pics of Ashley Cole smoking too this or the last summer and I don't see people go on and on about his fitness or smoking problems. I honestly think this whole "Rooney is unfit/fat" issues as widely exaggerated as the Anderson ones.

 

[wr8_utd]

Over the last six games we've taken a marginal 5 point lead and turned it into a title-clinching 15 point lead. We've done that by taking 24 points from 24 available, and Wayne Rooney has won us exactly half of those points.

I think, in fact, that the most ridiculous thing is that even after something like that there are still people saying we'd be absolutely fine if we sold him.

People will call that "just stats" and go on and on about how woeful he's been etc. The simple fact though is that none of our other forwards are scoring goals and Rooney has taken up the mantle and ensured we picked up goals and points despite him not playing in his favored position.

 

[MrMojo]

George Best, as much as we all love him, was little short of an absolute bastard most of his life. And not just in his personal life, he treated the club very shabbily as well at times. Nobody's going to dispute that he's a legend, are they?

There's a difference Chabon, all Best's failings came from an illness. Everything he did badly towards the club came from is alcoholism. What Rooney did was thought through, planned and probably done for nothing more than getting yet more money.

I don't like all this 'legend' talk, it's all superficial bollocks but I completely understand why Rooney, despite his achievements, would be denied that category. I doubt he gives as shit.

 

[RDCR07]

To be honest I am getting tired of this "he did this to get more money crap". I think people need to forget that these players are playing football as their hobby. Its just fecking job. At the end of the day, he is trying to earn more money to secure his future and his family's future. His performances certainly deserved a raise at this stage in his career. He got it, he stayed. Lets move on.

 

[RDCR07]

There's a difference Chabon, all Best's failings came from an illness. Everything he did badly towards the club came from is alcoholism. What Rooney did was thought through, planned and probably done for nothing more than getting yet more money.

So its okay if you get drunk and act stupid? Its okay if you ruin the reputation of your club if your ill or drunk? What the hell kind of an argument is that?