I get some people not having Rooney as world class, but I don't get rating someone like Van Persie as world class and Rooney as not. It is a fact that their records are very similar, and in terms of all round ability they are very well matched too imo.
Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances
- Thread starter gooDevil
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Part of the fact that this thread gets bumped with a negative post more often than it does with a positive is also due to the fact that when he has a good game hardly anybody's gonna come here and comment, because you generaly expect more from him than other players, and unless it's a monster game people hardly take time out of their life to give him praise, while a "lesser player" will get discussed more often.
While on the other hand if he's had a bad game, or we just generaly had a bad game as a team and he wasn't the stand-out player he still gets blamed more often than the majority of other players.
While on the other hand if he's had a bad game, or we just generaly had a bad game as a team and he wasn't the stand-out player he still gets blamed more often than the majority of other players.
I think Rooney is a fantastic player who can be amazing one game and be completely invisible or downright bad in others as we saw on Monday. That inconsistency is why I don't regard him in the same bracket as players like Zidane, Xavi, Messi, Ronaldo, etc...
So for me world class for sure as 99% of the teams out there would trade in one of their starting players for him but I dont think he'll go down as an all time great or anything close. He's a bit too inconsistent for that IMO.
So for me world class for sure as 99% of the teams out there would trade in one of their starting players for him but I dont think he'll go down as an all time great or anything close. He's a bit too inconsistent for that IMO.
Is Rooney really inconsistent compared to other players (no, not including the 2 freaks in Spain)? We watch the 50 something games Rooney is involved in, and see his peaks and troughs. And then we compare him to players we've only seen 5 times a season.
Van Persie for example. My brother is an Arsenal fan, and I watched a ton of their games last season. He was excellent overall last season, but even he had games where he was on the periphery.
I can't think of many strikers that are much more consistent than Rooney, considering his overall goal haul, and involvement in build up.
Van Persie for example. My brother is an Arsenal fan, and I watched a ton of their games last season. He was excellent overall last season, but even he had games where he was on the periphery.
I can't think of many strikers that are much more consistent than Rooney, considering his overall goal haul, and involvement in build up.
I think you're right that seeing every minute of his season compared to pretty much highlights of of other teams leads to unfair comparisons.
Also, Rooney is seen, quite rightly, to offer more than 'just goals' as a striker, and so has a greater weight of expectation on his shoulders.
That said, there were some very poor performances from him last season that were masked by a goal.
True. I thought the same back in 2009-10.
Vato is not a United fan so that theory doesn't apply to him.
I personally only mentioned Xavi and Iniesta and I watch them a lot more than 4-5 times per season.
I think you have a good general point though, people expect the likes of Nani and Rooney to be brilliant every week and yet the truth is, there is only 2 forward players in the World that are that consistent.
you may not be right all the time, but you are certainly right more than Pogue!
It seems he cannot read simple posts, without attempting to uncover some hidden meaning! Or over dramatising the point to it's most extreme possible interpretation.
You have got the gist easily 2 times on the trot without paying that much attention. It really wasn't as hard to fathom as Pogue tried to make it out to be.
My thanks for not taking on his poor attempt to make my posts out to be something they quite clearly wasn't.
Much harder for a forward to be consistent than any other player on the pitch.
What's scholes doing to do wrong? Misplace several passes, when he's under no pressure? Rooney completed around 94% of the passes against Everton, that weren't within 3-4 metres of the box. It's much harder for a forward to be consistent, as anything in the penalty box is much much harder; hence only the 2 freaks are forwards that tend to consistently score there; and I bet they miss heaps of chances there too.
Comparing forwards with forwards, not forwards with midfielders.
If you look at the stats that brwnd posted, the City lads are screwing it up a little. Midfielders are infinitely more desirable than forwards going by their data i.e. Rooney's the best passer out of forwards by a mile, but he's about 25-30th on the list, behind lads like Rafael who are under very little pressure and never provide a creative ball. Whereas forwards, even like Aguero, are scoring 1/3rd of his 'score' for passing.
you may not be right all the time, but you are certainly right more than Pogue!
It seems he cannot read simple posts, without attempting to uncover some hidden meaning! Or over dramatising the point to it's most extreme possible interpretation.
You have got the gist easily 2 times on the trot without paying that much attention. It really wasn't as hard to fathom as Pogue tried to make it out to be.
My thanks for not taking on his poor attempt to make my posts out to be something they quite clearly wasn't.
It was very obvious what you mean't and your point was a fair one.
Thank you very much, now I can abandon this thread.
Brings up an interesting point i have been considering for a while. There seem to be far less WC players about nowadays than say 15 years ago. If you compare the national teams of 1998 with those of today. Spain, and possibly Belgium are the only ones with clearly better players than back then. Argentina have some WC attacking talent now, but the rest of the team isn't up to much. Overall Argentina were probably better as a team, back then.
The standard of footballer from the home nation teams was far far higher too. When we look back on the likes of Brazil, England, Italy, Croatia, France, Czechs, Holland, Scotland, Romania, Bulgaria, Colombia, Chile, Nigeria, Ireland, Norway, Denmark, ffs that's off the top of my head there are probably even more.
But the point is the quality of their best players and the general level then too compared to now is far higher, it's not even close in most comparisions! The few unquestionable WC players about today are special indeed, but there are nowhere near as many in my view, not even close.
Compare Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi and Iniesta, and they stand up in any company, but after that you are struggling to name too many who would stand comfortably alongside the best of their predecessors in my view.
It's a good point that - I've often wondered just why that is. The 90s was one hell of a generation for individual talent, that's for sure.
My thanks to you too amolbhatia, it would seem my views are not as unreasonable or unfathomable as some would like to suggest.
The same fans slating him today will be sucking his dick if he scores a few goals at the weekend.
Not sure I'd go that far
He is not being slated Gareth, he is being reasonably assessed. Some won't agree, but very few i've read have done anything but discuss his form and his contribution.
Others have not been happy with that, which is fair enough. But i would suggest it is those trying to dismiss reasonable discussion of his contribution, that have been doing more of the slating.
The difference, for me, with Rooney is that when he is having a bad game he is truly terrible. He loses almost all semblance of a footballer. Yeah other players have bad games, but Rooney loses the ability to do even the most basic things.
Yeah I agree pretty much and that's my concern if we out him back in to th hole. I don't think we can step up the team without getting quality in that position, it will add to te attack and pretty much solve the issue of us being exposed by pressing teams. But the problem with Rooney is as you said that when he had a bad day he is poor and in that position that will be really detrimental to the team as it is the main hub for the attack. That's why I wasn't overly fussed about rvp as I wanted kagawa in the hole and Rooney up top. As a central striker I don't think rooneys swings in form would be such an issue as he's proven that on a bad day be can score a goal, and being higher up the pitch he won't be as involved in build up.
I suppose though even if he does play there, now with kagawa as a genuine option and potentially welbeck, Rooney will have to be a lot more consistent this year to avoid being left out.
Who ever slates him because of his performances, don't care too much about his goals, and those will slate him again, because he rarely produces some special performance.(I'm in this sort)
Been two days now and I'm haven't seen him reclaim his form yet!
I think the reason Rooney gets slated so much is because of how good his overall game used to be before he became more of a goalscorer. When Ronaldo was here, Rooney scored maybe 20 goals a season in all comps, but his overall play was pretty consistent and really good. Lately he's become more of a goalscorer, but people still expect him to be the provider he used to be as well. Strikers go through good runs and bad runs, and with Wayne you just need to stick by him through the bad runs because on form he is easily a world class player, his goal scoring record speaks for itself.
One thing id say though, is that Rooney never had good enough technique, control or dribbling to play in the hole like most people here would want. Id rather we put kagawa there. With both Rooney and RVP at the club now, they can take turns dropping deeper or out wide between the three of them, because I think it's better to have an interchanging front four like them rather than a static front four like we had a few years ago.
One thing id say though, is that Rooney never had good enough technique, control or dribbling to play in the hole like most people here would want. Id rather we put kagawa there. With both Rooney and RVP at the club now, they can take turns dropping deeper or out wide between the three of them, because I think it's better to have an interchanging front four like them rather than a static front four like we had a few years ago.
Rooney was amazing in in 2005/06 playing deeper than Saha and Van Nistelrooy. Absolutely quality. He used to do great things with his first touch when on form - things like that shit he pulled against City (De Jong?) before launching THAT pass to Giggs for Scholes' goal in the league cup a few seasons back. It is really disappointing how his first touch has declined, because he used to be able to really embarrass players with it.
Ahh, it is such a shame that he couldn't combine his best attributes from his second season here with his finishing and forward play of now. Genuinely, there'd be feck all between him and Ronaldo had he developed like that.
Look at the difference in the goals he was scoring in his first two seasons here...watch up to 7:20.
The first touch for some of his goals there...you rarely if ever see that these days, unfortunately. He really did have it (a good first touch) at one point, though he obviously scores a lot more now.
Edit: That video, like others, has missed out a goal that has seemingly been obliterated from history (which is odd given that it's one of his best goals). It's from his first season with us - a little run through a couple of players and then a chip over the keeper from outside the box. Been dying to see it again for ages...anyone know which goal this was and who it was against?
The first touch for some of his goals there...you rarely if ever see that these days, unfortunately. He really did have it (a good first touch) at one point, though he obviously scores a lot more now.
Edit: That video, like others, has missed out a goal that has seemingly been obliterated from history (which is odd given that it's one of his best goals). It's from his first season with us - a little run through a couple of players and then a chip over the keeper from outside the box. Been dying to see it again for ages...anyone know which goal this was and who it was against?
Middlesbrough?
Nope, but I think that video has missed those two goals out and all hasn't it? This one was class. I remember Fergie commenting after the game that everyone on the bench was shouting "chip him"...and he did.
He is scoring this weekend. You can quote me on that.
Middlesbrough?
Found it:
Sort of...
Doesn't really work for me, though! Not sure about anyone else, but I get about 2 frames of that. Any ideas now?
Don't think it's this is it?
Edit: Just read it's from his first season. That's not.
Edit: Just read it's from his first season. That's not.
Nah, but that one was better. What a beauty. I had almost exactly that view funnily enough for that goal. Got tickets from a family friend in the seats just through the trafford suite behind the players.
Very swish stuff - those seats must cost a fecking fortune! Proper prawn-sandwich type stuff.
Very swish stuff - those seats must cost a fecking fortune! Proper prawn-sandwich type stuff.
That's some recorded game play of FIFA 08
But yeah the video doesn't work properly for me either.Christ, I thought that was the real thing until I read Olly's post. Then I noticed the FIFA 08 logo on the vid. *sherlock holmes facepalm pic*
Oh shit...
Well, it was exactly like that one (all 4 milliseconds of it). He just sort of ran through two players towards the edge of the box, and lifted it into the top left corner past the keeper. I'm sorry for taking the thread down this route...it's doing my head in!
Well, it was exactly like that one (all 4 milliseconds of it). He just sort of ran through two players towards the edge of the box, and lifted it into the top left corner past the keeper. I'm sorry for taking the thread down this route...it's doing my head in!
Is it in this video? http://vimeo.com/22548062
1:45
I was willing to stay up all night looking for that.
Great goal, no idea why it was so hard to find. Must've been against someone fairly obscure in pre-season or something.
I was willing to stay up all night looking for that.
Great goal, no idea why it was so hard to find. Must've been against someone fairly obscure in pre-season or something.That looks like pre-season or in the club world cup
It was against Urawa Red Diamonds - http://www.manutd.com/en/Tour2012Te...nited-in-asia-2005-match-action.aspx?pageNo=2
feckin youtube I'm searching for Rooney's goal against Athletic Club. The beauty from outside the box. If anyone finds it pl post it. Cheers.
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