Wayne Rooney | 2012-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Our most important player is definitely Carrick because we've got no one to replace him and we'd be a mess in midfield without him but Rooney comes in at Number 2 for me. I honestly believe we'd struggle more if Rooney was out for a season rather than RvP.
 
wr8_utd said:
Our most important player is definitely Carrick because we've got no one to replace him and we'd be a mess in midfield without him but Rooney comes in at Number 2 for me. I honestly believe we'd struggle more if Rooney was out for a season rather than RvP.
Click to expand...

What about this season though? if RVP didn't sign with us in the summer, would Rooney have us in the position we are currently in the league? I don't think that Rooney has ever hit RVP's level as a striker and never will.
 
Shark22 said:
What about this season though? if RVP didn't sign with us in the summer, would Rooney have us in the position we are currently in the league? I don't think that Rooney has ever hit RVP's level as a striker and never will.
Click to expand...

Wayne Rooney 2011-12 : 44 games 35 goals
Wayne Rooney 2009-10 : 42 games 34 goals

And he's picked up 14 goals in around 24 goals despite never playing anywhere as further forward as RvP has this year. If we didn't have RvP, I think Rooney with Kagawa playing off him would have been a wonderful partnership.
 
Chabon said:
We were playing well, sure, but I think the extent of that is being exaggerated. We really should have had a comfortable lead by the time the ref fecked us.
Click to expand...

I think that idea really plays down the difficulty, effort and concentration required to keep Real at bay like that. If we played differently we could have been more dangerous and scored goals, but were also far more likely to concede.
 
I don't think we should have played all that differently, I just think we should have played the striker who is both in better form and is also much more proven at this level.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
He played the first game. And we scored as many as that in the second and were on top till the red, so we weren't worse off in that regards without him than we were with.
Click to expand...

Were we not playing at the Bernabeu? And were we not playing not the lose the game at the Bernabeau, rather than to win the game? United do not play at Old Trafford to not lose the game. Fergie all but said before the game we'd have to score two goals, probably three, to beat Real and go through. Scoring two or three goals without your most lethal, complete offensive player does not increase the likelihood of enjoying success.

I'm not even fit to be a booger that Fergie flicks into turf before his grounds staff till me back into the soil, but it's my judgment that benching Rooney was a mistake.
 
wr8_utd said:
Wayne Rooney 2011-12 : 44 games 35 goals
Wayne Rooney 2009-10 : 42 games 34 goals

And he's picked up 14 goals in around 24 goals despite never playing anywhere as further forward as RvP has this year. If we didn't have RvP, I think Rooney with Kagawa playing off him would have been a wonderful partnership.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point. Kagawa would have gotten a lot more games in his best position and the two of them do seem to work well together. However, I still think that RVP has been on another level to Rooney as a striker and has easily been as a good a player. I don't think that we'd be close to were we currenly are if we didn't bring him in. There's also no glaring evidence that Kagawa playing behind Rooney would have had a similar impact to him. Not this season anyway.
 
Ruud10 said:
Fergie all but said before the game we'd have to score two goals, probably three, to beat Real and go through. Scoring two or three goals without your most lethal, complete offensive player does not increase the likelihood of enjoying success.
Click to expand...

Since when do we take everything Fergie says face value? The team was obviously well set up to stifle Real and did that brilliantly. So he said he expected us to concede a goal. It doesn't mean he goes all guns blazing in order to get two or three as early as possible when we don't need them.
 
Everyone's favorite shit sprouting Miguel Delaney has this to say :

As Sir Alex Ferguson told the Manchester United squad the starting XI for the Real Madrid match around two hours before kick-off on Tuesday, Wayne Rooney wasn't surprised.

The forward, according to those at the club, had been informed of his omission the day before. Unlike Rooney, though, the football world was not expecting the decision and it led to an awful lot of shock - as well as speculation about the forward's future.

The key to all of the reports that United are now considering the sale of the forward, however, is not that Tuesday's benching triggered them. Rather, Ferguson's decision brought it all to the fore.

Rumours that United have been contemplating the sale of Rooney, and that his relationship with the manager is more strained than ever, have been doing the rounds for weeks. After Tuesday night, though, many more people around Old Trafford and Carrington were willing to speak more freely about the persistent talk at the club.

The root of the problem goes back to the start of the season and, typically, Rooney's power play way back in October 2010. More than anything, the forward's public doubts about "the continued ability of the club to attract the top players in the world" in that hectic week have really stuck with Ferguson. It has always lingered and has never gone away.

Except, last summer, United did sign the type of "top player" Rooney requested - which they had arguably not done since 2008. Ferguson reasonably expected that the signing of Robin van Persie, and the potential effect on the Englishman's place in the pecking order, was that the No. 10 would rise to the challenge and that it would raise the standards of everyone for the overall betterment of the team as a whole.

Instead, Rooney responded by coming back from the summer above his expected weight. In Van Persie's first game, a 1-0 defeat away to Everton, Rooney produced a conspicuously laboured and lethargic performance at his old club that reportedly had Ferguson fuming. As one source said, "he did the opposite" to what the manager was expecting.

Worse followed after the player's injury in the subsequent win over Fulham. During his time out, Rooney apparently didn't fully adhere to his gym plan and his optimum weight remained an issue. At one point, Ferguson reportedly told the forward that he "has come back from every tournament with England out of shape".

Of course, all of this only fits the wider pattern of their relationship since the 2010 World Cup. Essentially, every season has panned out in a broadly similar way: Rooney starts slowly, develops an issue with Ferguson - in 2011-12, it was surrounding his omission from the Blackburn Rovers defeat at Christmas, which Mike Phelan did wonders to soothe over - before eventually finding sufficient form and fitness to produce his best, match-winning form and ensure all the problems can be temporarily forgotten again.

That, of course, is why it is by no means definite Rooney will leave this summer. Although United will consider offers and have already informally touted him to Real Madrid - with no success - they are conscious of getting the right bid and ensuring a suitable or superior replacement comes in.

Given Rooney's contract is up in two years, as well as the fact he would prefer to stay in England, it is doubtful whether that 'right bid' might ever arrive. So far, only Paris Saint-Germain have expressed a tangible interest. Ultimately, the issues between Ferguson and Rooney have never truly gone away and it is possible we've reached a tipping point.

Only adding another level to all of this, there is the debate about whether the truly top player that Rooney could have been has now gone away forever. Undoubtedly, he will go down as one of United's greatest ever players: he has one of its finest ever medal collections; has played an influential role in securing all of those medals; and has probably been among the top 10 in the world throughout all his time at Old Trafford. In fact, during 2009-10, in the season before his notorious attempt to force a move, he was probably only behind Leo Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.

But the wonder is what he might have been had he applied the Portuguese's attitude to his fitness.

When Rooney first came through it was his sheer physical power that made him most stand out. Most impressively, he literally had the French defence running scared in his global break-out appearance at Euro 2004. That aspect of his game, though, has gradually faded. One of the reasons his blockbuster strike against Norwich City was so notable, in fact, was that they have become so rare.

Since then, Rooney has undeniably added more intelligence and craft to his game and he can be a fine playmaker. His willingness to sacrifice his own improvement and also work so hard for the team is also admirable - but it is somewhat ironic that such professionalism may be in contrast to his approach off the pitch.

But, if Ferguson's concerns about his condition are correct, it is reasonable to speculate whether Rooney might have maintained that awesome power for longer. With it, he might also have stayed closer to the Ronaldo-Messi bracket of players for longer.

In certain ways, in fact, his eventual appearance against Real Madrid reflects where he is now as a player. His displays generally fall between two main types: either all vigour and no precision, or effortless precision without the same vigour. Many expected that, by the time of his peak, he would persistently combine the two, but the performance on Tuesday definitely fell into the former category.
After the match, as United's post-mortem eventually went beyond the unfair red card to Nani, one member of the coaching staff turned to Rooney.

"Wayne, you gave away the ball four f**king times in 10 minutes."

It was met with silence.

It was a rare moment in this saga and, outside it, the Rooney story has generated anything but silence.
Click to expand...

I don't really believe that story to be honest. As most Delaney's other articles, he makes a bold claim but then also manages to put in something to cover his arse incase what he says doesn't end up happening.

I remember him saying something along the lines of "Welbeck would be on his way out since contract negotiations have broken down as well" if RvP was to sign for us, he also had a story about Wanyama in Jan where he claimed we bid 8m but also wrote enough to make sure he didn't look a fool if the transfer didn't happen.
 
It's an article filled with obvious falsehoods, and as someone struggling to get a job it sometimes makes me genuinely angry that fecks like him are able to steal a living taking advantage of football fans.
 
I particularly loved this bit :

After the match, as United's post-mortem eventually went beyond the unfair red card to Nani, one member of the coaching staff turned to Rooney.

"Wayne, you gave away the ball four f**king times in 10 minutes."

Amazing how people like him can come up with such crap.
 
"Wayne, you gave away the ball four f**king times in 10 minutes."

It was met with silence.
Click to expand...

If this is true, I'm glad the senior coaches at the club haven't been influenced by their controversial sending off the other night when analysing the game. We had more than enough chances, even when down to ten men, to progress.
 
Shark22 said:
That's a fair point. Kagawa would have gotten a lot more games in his best position and the two of them do seem to work well together. However, I still think that RVP has been on another level to Rooney as a striker and has easily been as a good a player. I don't think that we'd be close to were we currenly are if we didn't bring him in. There's also no glaring evidence that Kagawa playing behind Rooney would have had a similar impact to him. Not this season anyway.
Click to expand...

As a striker, Rooney was brilliant last year and he scored for us in as many big games as RvP has this season but we fell short due to shocking complacency and a lack of Vidic at the back. We've challenged and won titles without Robin van Persie for many years and would have continued to do so without him. Rooney has lead our title charge in our last few years and there's nothing to suggest he couldn't lead the line again this year.
 
Heard that Jamie Redknapp has predicted that Rooney is literally off in the summer.

Who are we to argue with that genius.
 
nahealai said:
Er, really?
Click to expand...

Er, yes? He's not played in RvP's position all season so he's not really gotten chances there but his performances just last season show that he could easily do it again if he had to. Rooney hasn't played as the main striker too often this year but the few times that I do remember him playing there are the games against Newcastle in the COC where he was brilliant, the 30 mins vs Norwich when RvP went off and he was again fantastic and when he came on against QPR and had quite an influence. I don't know how one can suggest that Rooney can't lead the line for us if we didn't have RvP , despite evidence to the contrary. It's almost like ever since van Persie has come, people have forgotten Rooney was a striker for us and a very high scoring one at that.
 
fecking hell, I was one of Rooney's biggest critics on here, but some posts about him recently are ridiculous :lol: Some people are talking about him like he is some mediocre player.
 
Chabon said:
It's an article filled with obvious falsehoods, and as someone struggling to get a job it sometimes makes me genuinely angry that fecks like him are able to steal a living taking advantage of football fans.
Click to expand...

What would you say the obvious falsehoods were? Have to say, I've heard a lot from Delaney when he was covering Ireland and he was very well informed.
 
wr8_utd said:
Er, yes? He's not played in RvP's position all season so he's not really gotten chances there but his performances just last season show that he could easily do it again if he had to. Rooney hasn't played as the main striker too often this year but the few times that I do remember him playing there are the games against Newcastle in the COC where he was brilliant, the 30 mins vs Norwich when RvP went off and he was again fantastic and when he came on against QPR and had quite an influence. I don't know how one can suggest that Rooney can't lead the line for us if we didn't have RvP , despite evidence to the contrary. It's almost like ever since van Persie has come, people have forgotten Rooney was a striker for us and a very high scoring one at that.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with a word of your analysis in relation to Wayne's performances in those games. When he's in the groove, he's a joy to behold. The problem for us is that those games are few and far between these days, unfortunately.

Rooney is a notorious "fits-and-spurts" player, and his excellent record in front of goal is often offset by a prolonged period of time without scoring. Throw in his questionable fitness (at times, it has to be said) and amount of niggles he tends to pick up, I believe there's some, however minor they appear to be, reasons to suggest that maybe he cannot be relied upon to consistently lead the line for us.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Heard that Jamie Redknapp has predicted that Rooney is literally off in the summer.

Who are we to argue with that genius.
Click to expand...

Surprised he's saying things like that. Surely he would want Rooney at the club when he takes over from Fergie?
 
wr8_utd said:
I particularly loved this bit :

After the match, as United's post-mortem eventually went beyond the unfair red card to Nani, one member of the coaching staff turned to Rooney.

"Wayne, you gave away the ball four f**king times in 10 minutes."

Amazing how people like him can come up with such crap.
Click to expand...

The problem is though that this is believable. I'd be a little disappointed if they didn't have a go at him. The most noticeable thing about his performance when he came on was giving the ball away on a number of occasions.
 
tumblr_mjadulKr181r7jzw9o2_500.gif


He was clearly unhappy last night.
 
nahealai said:
I don't disagree with a word of your analysis in relation to Wayne's performances in those games. When he's in the groove, he's a joy to behold. The problem for us is that those games are few and far between these days, unfortunately.

Rooney is a notorious "fits-and-spurts" player, and his excellent record in front of goal is often offset by a prolonged period of time without scoring. Throw in his questionable fitness (at times, it has to be said) and amount of niggles he tends to pick up, I believe there's some, however minor they appear to be, reasons to suggest that maybe he cannot be relied upon to consistently lead the line for us.
Click to expand...

This has been true in the past but as far as I remember, he didn't have many barren spells when he was playing as a striker in his two recent, prolific seasons. This year he's had some spells where he hasn't scored but that's also got a lot to do with how deep he's played this season to protect our midfield and because we have van Persie scoring goals upfront. And I know this is a very cliched term with Rooney but he honestly rarely has games where he has zero contribution, even when he's not scoring. 14 goals and top of the assists in the PL suggests that as well. The Swansea and Everton games this season were the only ones where he was genuinely poor.
 
sullydnl said:
What would you say the obvious falsehoods were? Have to say, I've heard a lot from Delaney when he was covering Ireland and he was very well informed.
Click to expand...

Read some of the stories he comes up with and you know he's usually talking a lot of nonsense. He makes claims and then also does enough to make sure he's covered incase it doesn't end up happening. And if the benching wasn't the incident that brought about these stories as he claims, how come he or any of the other journalists weren't running any of these stories about selling him due to his weight and fitness issues earlier in the season? The only stories linking him to PSG have been due to "him not being the main man anymore". They're just mashing up a lot of stories and coming up with these exclusives now that he was benched. The fitness bits are just them twisting Fergie's comments about Rooney "needing some games to get in shape" and twisting these to their benefit to come up with the he's going to get sold stories, imo.
 
sullydnl said:
Question is whether Ferguson is happy with him though, don't think many are suggesting it's Rooney pushing to leave.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what half the people were saying the last couple of days. His ego would have been damaged. He is the one who will want to leave. Fergie pushing him out was secondary for a few.
 
I just think Rooney needs to knuckle down and get him into the best shape of his life. It's always been my feeling that his diet and off the field lifestyle aren't quite what is befitting of a top player. Look at Ronaldo. Physical specimen. I just think that is the difference between the best and the rest. You have to live it. Rooney seems like an old school englishman. Still too many pasties.

That said, I don't think he'll leave. Didn't he recently talk about wanting to break Charlton's goal scoring record? He's so unselfish in how and hwere he is willing to play. I would love Rooney to finish his career at United.
 
wr8_utd said:
Read some of the stories he comes up with and you know he's usually talking a lot of nonsense. He makes claims and then also does enough to make sure he's covered incase it doesn't end up happening. And if the benching wasn't the incident that brought about these stories as he claims, how come he or any of the other journalists weren't running any of these stories about selling him due to his weight and fitness issues earlier in the season? The only stories linking him to PSG have been due to "him not being the main man anymore". They're just mashing up a lot of stories and coming up with these exclusives now that he was benched. The fitness bits are just them twisting Fergie's comments about Rooney "needing some games to get in shape" and twisting these to their benefit to come up with the he's going to get sold stories, imo.
Click to expand...

They were.
 
I think Savage was right on Football Focus. He said Rooney needs to buckle down and the show his critics and the media that he is still one of the best players around and also show United fans that he still has a place here. Too many people are taking a piss at him for the wrong reasons lately. In my opinion he is still very important to us and there is no way we should let him leave.
 
wr8_utd said:
Read some of the stories he comes up with and you know he's usually talking a lot of nonsense. He makes claims and then also does enough to make sure he's covered incase it doesn't end up happening. And if the benching wasn't the incident that brought about these stories as he claims, how come he or any of the other journalists weren't running any of these stories about selling him due to his weight and fitness issues earlier in the season? The only stories linking him to PSG have been due to "him not being the main man anymore". They're just mashing up a lot of stories and coming up with these exclusives now that he was benched. The fitness bits are just them twisting Fergie's comments about Rooney "needing some games to get in shape" and twisting these to their benefit to come up with the he's going to get sold stories, imo.
Click to expand...

I dunno, all of the journalists that cover united are reporting this and are all saying they've been hearing things for a while. I know journalists make shit up a fair bit but wouldn't you expect even one of them to have a legit source to say this isn't true? After all, if it's all made up then there must be people at United who know it's bullshit. Not saying I believe Rooney is going but I think there's more to it than journalists bullshitting with no substance.
 
RDCR07 said:
Thats exactly what half the people were saying the last couple of days. His ego would have been damaged. He is the one who will want to leave. Fergie pushing him out was secondary for a few.
Click to expand...

Oh right, didn't see that. Well that's stupid, if he goes it'll be cus Ferguson wants him gone.
 
Yes come on lets the comparisons begin. If Carroll can go for £35m then definitely Rooney can go for more. He is not going for the same amount as Henderson or Downing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.