Wan-Bissaka for sale | joins West Ham

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No bids and player refusing to leave. What would you do?

Exactly this

We are stuck in this horrible cycle and just need one domino to fall in place for all clear out to begin. One sale of AwB or Scott will give us a cushion to bargain with.

People are getting too influenced by likes of Goldfrridge and have no patience. We are still paying for crimes of Woodward and Glazers
 
Yeah I'd understand it more with a guy like Chiesa with one year left. He hasn't been sold yet, mind you, but maybe it does make sense with Wan Bissaka who's also 26.

It's still a bit stupid if you don't have a better replacement or just 1 or no suitors at all. With Chiesa, I think he'll have more suitors - but to some extend their move might also just drive his price down if there's few or one suitor.

Really depends on the player, the contract/wage and the suitors. Hard to do this with all type of players.

its a mutual destruction thing really. If the player doesn't leave then the club won't play him thus he'll probably be forgotten by next year. Its not perfect science of course and there had been people who had stuck their guns to it (ex Winston Bogarde) but if done well then most of the time it scares the crap out of players and they do end up leaving.

United is simply too nice. We give huge salaries, contract extensions to players who do not deserve it, we keep playing every player we want out and we even give coaching roles to former players who sat at the injury room for years when the honorable thing would have been to just retire. That gives the impression that this is the club you can take advantage off. Its something INEOS needs to stop
 
It's also early days to tell if it'll work for Juve or any other club who does this, isn't it? With Gallagher, Chelsea already had others to take over from him.

Who knows, it could be a worse trade if Juventus back up their words with actions and let a player to rot in the reserves for half a year - then fewer clubs will want the player, the player will be worse.

All in all, the total value could go down a lot. If you then take the player back up from the reserves, you'll then show the other players that your threat was just an empty threat.

I'm just not completely sold on threatening a player with no football, if you got nothing better available already.

Edit: Imagine we did this with Casemiro. So much money just sitting in the reserves, and he'd probably would want to just cash in like that instead of going to Saudi Arabia and getting a similar wage.
I think it depends on the player. Players careers are short and most would want to play. Some will sit in the reserves and mooch off while others will try to find clubs where they are more wanted. Like you mentioned, it worked for Chelsea with Gallagher. De Gea held out for mega wages and now can not find a new club. In hindsight, he should have accepted our offer of extension on lower wages.

Players and agents are more practical about their situations and careers. A lot of players we want out don't have long left on their contracts, it's just one season. Some kind of compromise can be reached. Being a life time opportunity to be at a club like United is only useful if you get to play and show your quality. It's no good sitting in the reserves or on the bench.
 
its a mutual destruction thing really. If the player doesn't leave then the club won't play him thus he'll probably be forgotten by next year. Its not perfect science of course and there had been people who had stuck their guns to it (ex Winston Bogarde) but if done well then most of the time it scares the crap out of players and they do end up leaving.

United is simply too nice. We give huge salaries, contract extensions to players who do not deserve it, we keep playing every player we want out and we even give coaching roles to former players who sat at the injury room for years when the honorable thing would have been to just retire. That gives the impression that this is the club you can take advantage off. Its something INEOS needs to stop
Definitely. The high salaries and having players who might have chosen us over another club due to a higher salary, is really the root of all evil I believe.

This wage-project is a Gordian Knot - Will take a lot of time to untangle. So much patience is needed for us to become good again.
 
Definitely. The high salaries and having players who might have chosen us over another club due to a higher salary, is really the root of all evil I believe.

This wage-project is a Gordian Knot - Will take a lot of time to untangle. So much patience is needed for us to become good again.

I agree however things can be done better from INEOS side as well. They can

A- Be more ruthless with players
B- Be more flexible with deals (20m for McT isn't that bad, a swap between Dumfries and AWB isn't either if done well)
C- Stop relying on signing players from ETH's whatsapp group. For example I am concerned of De Ligt/Mazraoiu injury record. Are they the next Jones/Shaw/Malacia?
D- rely more on youth talent from SA rather then players everyone know that are good.
E- Built more relationships in the ME.

I understand that these are still early days but these issues need to be sorted.
 
Players like AWB have no reason to move or worry about the threat of not playing football for a year, unlike Gallagher and Chiesa who are international footballers and concerned about their position in their national squad. Dumping him in the reserves is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. He’s still good enough to be in our matchday squad.

We have to accept that we will lose a lot of players over the next few years for peanuts or on free transfers because we won’t shift them for anywhere near their value to us. This is what it will take to completely change the culture of the club, a lot of painfully mediocre years to get back to a sustainable club with competitive players that care more about football than money and fame.
 
Yes, the wages are crazy; however the way around that is to pay these guys the difference in wages for the season and make deals happen. If we are getting 15m+3m for AWB, then the deal shouldn't stop because we need pay to AWB 52*salary difference for one season.
 
I agree however things can be done better from INEOS side as well. They can

A- Be more ruthless with players
B- Be more flexible with deals (20m for McT isn't that bad, a swap between Dumfries and AWB isn't either if done well)
C- Stop relying on signing players from ETH's whatsapp group. For example I am concerned of De Ligt/Mazraoiu injury record. Are they the next Jones/Shaw/Malacia?
D- rely more on youth talent from SA rather then players everyone know that are good.
E- Built more relationships in the ME.

I understand that these are still early days but these issues need to be sorted.
All great points, and I'd argue F- Find suitors and propose deals to clubs who need these players would be even more important. A department to find out the West Ham's the Fulham's, etc, and aggressively tries to contact the clubs (wait until the market is scanned and then contact all at the same time to drive the price up) would be a decent solution.

A department who basically just does the opposite of what a transfer-department does when they find good buys.
 
All great points, and I'd argue F- Find suitors and propose deals to clubs who need these players would be even more important. A department to find out the West Ham's the Fulham's, etc, and aggressively tries to contact the clubs (wait until the market is scanned and then contact all at the same time to drive the price up) would be a decent solution.

A department who basically just does the opposite of what a transfer-department does when they find good buys.
So the job of a player’s agent?
 
Doesn’t do a lot for squad morale but people move on quickly.

should follow Chelsea and not taken them on tour. Drop to reserves. And inform their agent they won’t be playing. I’m certain players would get the message and be more proactive to seek alternative employment

We could have had situations (similar to where we find ourselves with Bayern) where players have spoken to clubs knowing they aren’t wanted here (West Ham, Fulham…wherever) and it’s just a case for clubs to agree fees

Currently we have AWB and McT sat in the squad probably thinking positively about the squad status and forthcoming game time
 
Yes, the wages are crazy; however the way around that is to pay these guys the difference in wages for the season and make deals happen. If we are getting 15m+3m for AWB, then the deal shouldn't stop because we need pay to AWB 52*salary difference for one season.
+ any loyalty bonus he has in his contract. if he stays for a year he gets it next June
 
Yes, the wages are crazy; however the way around that is to pay these guys the difference in wages for the season and make deals happen. If we are getting 15m+3m for AWB, then the deal shouldn't stop because we need pay to AWB 52*salary difference for one season.

It's not the only problem, the player also want money because he can get a sign on bouns if he leaves on a free in the summer. He wants that too. He will not only lose out on playing for a big club for another one year, but also money.
 
He will go cheaper than we wanted at some point. His agent just trying to negotiate more cash out of us as they know we need to move him on before his replacement comes in.
Worst case scenario he hangs around 1 more season then leaves on a free with a decent signing on bonus elsewhere.
 
I'm fine regardless. These players will leave on a free next year anyway. Yes we lose now but all the ills of the past regime will slowly be fixed. It's going to take time.
 
I don't blame the players but it's another example of why we have struggled and why we have such a sorry team culture. Our players are willing to stay and sit on contracts even though they're not wanted.

We are going to be stuck with players who have no long-term future here and they know it. It's a disaster waiting to happen. I kind of understand why clubs excommunicate players. We are in a terrible situation.
 
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And if they didnt find a new club you think they wouldnt include them in the team after that?
Even if you let him rot in the reserves which clubs rarely do you still have to pay him and cant make clubs go in for him if there isnt any.
It’s all very public at Juve. Anyone who wishes to see out their contract won’t play and will be made to feel comfortable. It’s better to move on in that kind of circumstance. I’m not saying who’s wrong or right here, simply how it is. Juve are very firm on their stance.
 
It’s all very public at Juve. Anyone who wishes to see out their contract won’t play and will be made to feel comfortable. It’s better to move on in that kind of circumstance. I’m not saying who’s wrong or right here, simply how it is. Juve are very firm on their stance.
The basic problem are big salaries some of our players are on and it's a leftover from Ed and co. which will be hard to deal with.
 
I don't blame the players but it's another example of why we have struggled and why we have such a sorry team culture. Our players are willing to stay and sit on contracts even though they're not wanted.

We are going to be stuck with players who have no long-term future here and they know it. It's a disaster waiting to happen. I kind of understand why clubs excommunicate players. We are in a terrible situation.
It's stems from poor talent ID and how such players know that the only way from here is down so they try to hold on for as long as possible. As a club we shouldn't indulge this nonsense by making them comfortable here, we should freeze them out until their contracts are up, there isn't much cost results wise because we are shit anyway.
 
Greedy cnut, after being mediocre for four years you pull this off, what a tool.
 
What a prick. He's on 4.5m a year, that's about 2 years wages for him to leave.
 
Someone needs to do the math on whether to pay him or keep him for a season. AWB is a weird one, he used to be a winger so why is he so poor with attacking or crossing. Ultimately, some premier league will still sign him next season.
 


What the actual f? Is he due that as a loyalty bonus next year? Or is this the discrepancy in wages for a single year + loyalty bonus? He's allgedly on 90K (which may be lower with no CL) and I would imagine West Ham would at least give him 60K, so if we're making up 30K over a season that's "only" 1.5m.

This can't be the figure, makes no sense. Unless he was given some astronomically crazy loyalty fee on top of the crazy transfer fee paid and significant wages. Even for Woodward that would be daft in the extreme.

edit: that all being said, I'd move him on and pay him off. Same with Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen, Casemiro, McTominay, Sancho. Clear the decks.
 


How do other clubs avoid this type of situation? Is the answer that we accept a lower fee from West Ham and leave them to sort out the signing on fee?

The maths means it makes sense to make the payment but the damage in future similar scenarios makes that completely unpalatable I think.
 
You guys really need to calm down. He's right in looking after his interests - I mean, the club is trying to do what's best for the club by moving him on.

There really isn't any need for these personal attacks and vitriol
 
What the actual f? Is he due that as a loyalty bonus next year? Or is this the discrepancy in wages for a single year + loyalty bonus? He's allgedly on 90K (which may be lower with no CL) and I would imagine West Ham would at least give him 60K, so if we're making up 30K over a season that's "only" 1.5m.

This can't be the figure, makes no sense. Unless he was given some astronomically crazy loyalty fee on top of the crazy transfer fee paid and significant wages. Even for Woodward that would be daft in the extreme.
Or he's on a lot more than 90k, which might explain why we've had one of the highest wages bills in the past decade whilst not paying out any bonuses for success?
 
If it's true it would be frustrating, but the club's fault rather than his.

That's what happens when you let relatively ordinary players on relatively good wages get into the last year of their contract. It becomes harder to get a good fee for them, and possible for them to think they're better off running the contract down. Especially when the reality is that if they stay they'll have to get a lot of gametime. Obviously players will rightly look after their own interests, not the club's.

A lesson to keep in mind as we turn down bids for McTominay, who has 1+1 years left on his contract.
 
What the actual f? Is he due that as a loyalty bonus next year? Or is this the discrepancy in wages for a single year + loyalty bonus? He's allgedly on 90K (which may be lower with no CL) and I would imagine West Ham would at least give him 60K, so if we're making up 30K over a season that's "only" 1.5m.

This can't be the figure, makes no sense. Unless he was given some astronomically crazy loyalty fee on top of the crazy transfer fee paid and significant wages. Even for Woodward that would be daft in the extreme.

The suggestion is that it’s because if he hangs around for a season then he will get a much bigger signing on fee as a free agent from a club next summer. Whether £7m is realistic for that I have no idea.
 
Or he's on a lot more than 90k, which might explain why we've had one of the highest wages bills in the past decade whilst not paying out any bonuses for success?

I don't think so. On second thoughts he's likely wanting United to compensate him for not getting a bosman signing bonus, plus the discrepancy in wages for a year, plus losing out on a loyalty bonus, and a little piss taking. Casemiro, Mount, Rashford, Varane, Martial, Eriksen, Maguire and Bruno are/were the astronomical wages, and then dishing out 90-120K a week to very average players like Lindelof, Donny, and AWB.
 
You guys really need to calm down. He's right in looking after his interests - I mean, the club is trying to do what's best for the club by moving him on.

There really isn't any need for these personal attacks and vitriol
Agreed.

If your employer was trying to move you on for lower wages and asking you to forego your bonus, then you would rightly be asking for an exit package.
 
Greedy cnut, after being mediocre for four years you pull this off, what a tool.
He is not the only one that holds "only one year left on contract" card. He knows he can get that in signing on fee if he signs on free next year, and for this year he is still getting paid by United. Nothing wrong from him in my opinion. What is wrong is for club management letting players to get to the last year of his contract without extending or selling player. If he was on a 2+ years contract he could be forced to reserves for two years or not playing and he would think twice what to do. But with one year left and him knowing how light we are on fullbacks he knows he will get minutes during the season plays final year of his contract and gets paid and gets lucrative free agent contract next year.
 
The suggestion is that it’s because if he hangs around for a season then he will get a much bigger signing on fee as a free agent from a club next summer. Whether £7m is realistic for that I have no idea.

Aye, just figured. Took me a minute :lol:
 
I don't blame him one bit. This is entirely on the club. He knows full well he will never come near his Man Utd wages ever again in his career.
 
Brilliant. Going to be sometime before the club finally moves on from the mess and incompetence of the past sporting regime.

Expecting another mediocre campaign.
 
How do other clubs avoid this type of situation? Is the answer that we accept a lower fee from West Ham and leave them to sort out the signing on fee?

The maths means it makes sense to make the payment but the damage in future similar scenarios makes that completely unpalatable I think.
They avoid getting to the point where players of value are in the last year of their contract. The other problem is anyone we want rid of will nearly always be earning less at their next club due to our ridiculous contracts. For other clubs it's the other way round.

You would have thought the club would have learned the lesson from things like De Gea's crazy contract and Pogba leaving for free, but no.
 
A number of Utd players negotiated a clause in their contract that if the club extended their contract by a year to protect resale value, the player gets half of the fee.
I read this a few days ago and did not pay too much attention. Wan Bisaka's contract was extended this January, and £7m seems to be right in the middle of the reported agreed transfer fee with West Ham.
 
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