Really hope he goes. Anything in the 15m-20m range would be a good fee for him.
Wan-Bissaka for sale | joins West Ham
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And once they start passing around him, he would be on toast which is what happened with Walker.
AWB is another one like McTominay who offers very little on the ball and has one great attribute which isn't always useful.
Right, so your plan is to buy a first team RB that is better than Dalot. Name one then. It would probably cost you 40-50 mill euros. And again: this means spending less on other positions.
Would you still do it?
AWB is a great tackler but a poor defender.
You can't rely on someone who wins 1-on-1 duels but their positioning, anticipation, heading and reading of the game is poor.
That's just being wilfully ignorant.
You can't rely on someone who wins 1-on-1 duels but their positioning, anticipation, heading and reading of the game is poor.
That's just being wilfully ignorant.
Now that his amortisation is clear can we not just do a chelsea and turn Wan Bisakka's 15m fee into a 75m player?
Not that that would be my plan. I guess medium term i'd go for someone in the 30m territory who's a bit more rounded, a bit closer to dalot.
Given how last year went that’s not really saying much.
Dalot is good, ideally however he should be a back up.
I wouldn’t mind keeping both but if Bissaka leaves then surely someone is coming in. Whats Frimpongs release clause again?
Agreed. The only point that matters is that our rb and bruno position are the only settled positions on the pitch. Question marks everywhere else. We have dalot who is a modern rb, plays well and is fit. Bissaka is a reliable back up and doesn't cause too much noise. We ended the season with our rb's as our only fullbacks. It should be very low on our priorities.
You can rely on a player who wins 1 v 1 duels when the primary threat they face is 1 v 1 duels.
The primary threat a team faces throughout 90 minutes is opposition movement in and around them off the ball. In any given game, a full-back is likely to face less 1-on-1 duels than they are to face decisions of positioning relative to opposition team moves. So, covering runs, anticipating an offside shift, anticipating channel passes, man-marking, zonal marking responsibilties, heading, double-team pressing, etc.
It's my opinion that a decent 1-on1 specialist with consistently great general defensive mental and technical attributes is superior to specialist 1-on-1 defender who is inconsistent at every other aspect of defending.
Agree. It's not like Wan Bissaka is Cafu defensively but just doesn't offer anything in possession. He's genuinely poor at most every aspect of defending apart from being dribbled at. Which is why he has this niche use in games where we are sitting deep under pressure and he's able to just hang around the box and deal with whatever winger is trying to take him on. But in more regular game states he's a net negative, but it's much harder to consistently see as a viewer because even if he fecks up his positioning or falls asleep out of possession he can be bailed out and no one remembers, whereas it's easy to watch him lock down an Mbappe or a Doku who's dribbling at him and point to that as a positive contribution.
If it weren't for the contract situation, you could argue that it isn't a position of priority and he's fine to keep for now. But that contract situation means you have to make the call on him this summer.
In that context, if you can sell him and sign a replacement then doing so is a no-brainer, as neither letting him leave for free next summer nor handing him a new contract are better long term decisions.
In that context, if you can sell him and sign a replacement then doing so is a no-brainer, as neither letting him leave for free next summer nor handing him a new contract are better long term decisions.
£15m with £5m addons I'd shake hands then add another £19m and get Frimpong who has a release clause of about £34m this month.
No brainer - Its just a question of whether he would drop Champions League football to come.
No brainer - Its just a question of whether he would drop Champions League football to come.
He's a great tackler and he's very very good in 1v1 duels. Other aspects of defending like positioning and awareness and all that, he's not great at.
He also offers absolutely nothing going forward, his passing is atrocious at times.
He's been here for what ? 5 seasons is it? That's enough time, he's not good enough. Let's sell and get some money for him.
He also offers absolutely nothing going forward, his passing is atrocious at times.
He's been here for what ? 5 seasons is it? That's enough time, he's not good enough. Let's sell and get some money for him.
Just to continue the comparison, Kyle Walker is also average (very kind tbh) positionally. He has one extreme quality, as does Wan Bissaka, other than that, he’s not better than him in almost every other area except long passing I’d say. The rap AWB gets is totally unwarranted, his positioning is just fine to play RB for Manchester United and to generally be a PL full back. These metrics get created for him and him exclusively all the time. Trent Alexander’s positioning is no better, Walker is faster, but on the whole, not much more of a challenge for a top winger than Bissaka is.
I think his ball ability is exaggerated because he seems to look awkward, but he looks after the ball far better than he’s given credit for:
The power of a youtube video consisting only of positive moments. I don’t rate AWB one bit for a top club, but watching that video I’m thinking “feck me we should sign this fella”.
Don't think it's wise to let him go this transfer window. We won't get half the player in for him for the price we're getting.
I will forever have mixed feelings about him. World class tackler who just hasn't developed any other part of his game to a decent level. But his elite tackling still comes in handy from time to time.
If we let him go surely we'd have to have another RB lined up to replace him? Unless they've got someone from the reserves in whom they're confident? We can't just roll into the season with Dalot at RB and maybe a CB for cover.
Don’t think this sale makes sense given our other needs and the fact that we’d need to immediately dip into the market for a replacement. If there is a Malacia style RB signing that wouldn’t break the bank I guess it could happen but I think it’s a lot more likely he leaves for free in the summer and we bring in a dedicated back up for Dalot once AWB is gone.
Exactly. I think there are other positions that should be prioritized. LB, for me, is critical. When Shaw was injured, it was a shitshow. I guess I agree that AWB isn’t good enough to start, but to sell without replacing would be madness. If you could, for example, find a young RB that could grow into a better option than Dalot, and costs 20m, sure. But as we just saw in the Yoro deal, potential is expensive these days…
It seems overly optimistic to sell AWB and not replace given our injury issues at LB and CB.
He’s a very competent 2nd choice RB. I’ll never look at the 11 and say feck me, Wan Bissaka again??
Also, I’m basically done with the fullback pinching in as an extra midfielder tactic. Sorry, would rather have them further up the pitch supporting attacking play on the wing. Not that he is great there, mind you, but you get what I mean.
Dalot is a borderline top 5 RB in the world. Have you even watched Frimpong before? He's practically a winger
Jesus the underrating of Dalot by our own fans is so strange. I guess it's because he doesn't just storm to the touchline and whip in crosses like one might have 20 years ago but damn.
Keep good option to give Dalot a rest and with better players around him will help him.
Top 5? I like Dalot a lot, but I wouldn’t put him there. For me, he’s… steady. Doesn’t get injured, has improved immensely defensively, a capable distributor, and flexible. That said, I do prefer more dynamic FBs like Evra, Cafu, Hakimi, Davies, etc.
I too thought we had come to the conclusion that he is a good rb.
So certain people are underrating Dalot and you are certainly overrating him. Top 5 RB in the world?
Once you go through the list of RB's in football... yeah it's not like there are a bunch of Cafu's running around
It's Trent and then... Carvajal still? Gusto? Ben White?
I'm sure as feck not putting Walker above him. Reece James can't be in any conversation anymore. Hakimi is abysmal defensively. Frimpong, as I said earlier, isn't even a right back he basically plays as a pseudo winger for Leverkusen.
People need to wake up and realize the position has changed, and someone like Dalot that can do a lot of things well is far more valuable to majority of modern teams over someone that flys down the touchline to whip in a few crosses but gets shredded defensively in any sort of standard 4 man defense.Trent gets a pass because I think his defensive struggles are slightly overblown at this point and he's a true weapon in possession that you can build attacks through completely.
Take a shot every time a clip cuts off before he successfully gives the ball to somebody else in the same colour shirt.
Average seems like a harsh descriptive word but he’s quite average at a lot of things, then there is his switching off, poor reading of the game, getting caught out of position and so on. He’s not that effective in attacking areas either.
He is solid and athletic and generally consistent, He gives his absolute all when he is out there, but Bissaka has put in one off performances of a higher standard than he has season just passed. Dalot is more consistent.
Saying he is borderline top 5 RB’s in the world is very dubious.
Given your username I thought you’d be all for winger/ fullbacks.
However I mention Frimpong as an option due to the way I imagine we will evolve our game and we need width from one of the wings. If you’ve got Deligt, Martinez Shaw, Ugarte and Mainoo not to mention Onana giving the ability to step out there is room for an offensive RB who can go inside and outside of the opposition fullback.
Add in the pace we have upfront plus a willing runner in Rasmus who would probably love an early ball in when the opportunity presents itself but Frimpong is more than just a crossing merchant like your namesake. He can also come inside and operate in midfield like Dalot, Bissaka and Shaw have done. He is for sure more offensive oriented but like I said given the way the team is shaping up that is something we could do with.
So having watched him yes he would suit the roll required.
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Think we're forgetting he's no longer a young prospect. He's turning 27 in a few months and his contract expires next summer. This is the best time to try and salvage a good deal for him.
You're assuming a lot in how we would essentially change our entire shape to accomodate Frimpong. And every fullback in the world "switches off" and gets caught out of position etc. occassionally. Like I said previously, it's not like every top club has a Cafu manning the flank.
I'm all for offensive fullbacks yes if they are actually capable defensively. I'm not for getting in wingbacks who made their reputation off of playing in a back 5 and suddenly assuming it won't be an issue shifting them back into a 4atb. You'd basically be doing what Chelsea thought they could do with Cucurella, who thrived at Brighton in a wing back role and being able to show his quality going forward without getting shredded defensively. Well, he got exposed plenty defensively after moving (had a great Euros though).
My entire point is that people are seemingly grossly overrating the level of fullbacks in football right now and just think Dalot is bang average when the truth is he's one of the better ones you'll find considering how much more fullbacks are asked to do now compared to 10-20 years ago. I even said I'd take Frimpong considering his relatively cheap release clause and use him as a winger and occassionally a fullback in games we'd dominate possession.
Those things definitely happened to Dalot last season but they were mostly isolated incidences (high profiles one I'd give you that) given the breath of his work, which was a lot because he was available for pretty much every game. It's probably unfair to extrapolate but I would say given his consistency and growth, most of those have been ironed out, which is not a thing to be underestimated. It means he doesn't really have a low bar (when on form) and it gives the team a base to play because he's not a net negative in certain aspects on that side of his pitch. That can't really be said of a lot other players in the team.
As for the AWB 'one off' higher performances, 1) it's debatable as Dalot has shut down Salah, Saka, Doku and Foden etc (in all varying degrees) himself. You can look at the performance thread for each of those games and it's pretty unanimous how impressive he was. 2) Producing several or one off good games isn't some legitimate criticism to be levelled at Dalot. Achieving a consistent baseline with a high bottom level is far more conducive for progressive football.
I would say Dalot's season has shown he's above average at a lot of things. He may not have a seemingly singular outstanding attribute but his overall skill set is getting close to overall top tier category. if he continues his form to the next season, then I think we will see a different outlook on how good he's perceived.
His problem is not dribbling, but what he does with the ball after. Extend all those highlights by five seconds and it will be starkly clear. Most of the time he passes it back, or it's a two yard lay off to Bruno.
We have seen Wan Bissaka performance over the past five years and it’s clear that he is not quite at the level required for a club of United’s size. It’s time to offload him for a reasonable fee in the range of £10-15 million. Holding onto mediocre players only hinders our progress and INEOS should focus on bringing in talent that matches their ambitions.
Dalot is better than all of the bolded in my opinion. A fit Reese James is better but that's a rarity
We need to do something here as he is entering the last year of his contract.
Interest seems to have stalled in this one……
Interest seems to have stalled in this one……
His defensive positioning is some of the worst I have seen from a defender is a great tackler though but tbh we should let him go and give someone else a chance even as back up to dalot.
Can't see us getting a fee that would suddenly give us greater leeway in the market and he's clearly not surplus to requirements so fine as a squad option. There are players who need to go more urgently, and I wouldn't lose any sleep over us triggering the plus 1 year option I think is in his contract.
Agree on Frimpong not being theanswer as a RB, but tio 5 in the world borderline,he isnt even premiership top 5 borderline.
That is definatelyone ectreme to the other. I like Bissaka, despite his obvious faults,but understand the sale with one yearleft on his contract. but its an either or in terms of selling Dalot/Bissaka as both are good second choices....both can be improved on and upgraded significantly in terms of a first choice right back in my opinion
I didn't realise he had a year left, suddenly the low price tag makes sense. Getting £15m would be a decent deal in that regard then.
If we sell, we'd certainly need a replacement and as someone mentioned above, I just don't know if we'd get a better player for a reasonable price.- unless its some hidden gem.
Preferably we sell him outside of the PL because I can see him being an absolute tyrant to our left winger. I just don't see Garnacho/Rashford beating him.
If we sell, we'd certainly need a replacement and as someone mentioned above, I just don't know if we'd get a better player for a reasonable price.- unless its some hidden gem.
Preferably we sell him outside of the PL because I can see him being an absolute tyrant to our left winger. I just don't see Garnacho/Rashford beating him.
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