Wan-Bissaka for sale | joins West Ham

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phelans shorts said:
Personally I remember being negative on the signing, then his first season I thought he showed enough that maybe I was wrong. Then the wheels came off entirely, Leipzig away was probably the game where I gave up entirely on him so I’m going to guess others who were more positive than me also saw it as a tipping point.
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That's interesting. I missed most of the Champions League games that season and these are usually frustrations are obviously cumulative too.

It feels like the overpaid argument could be levelled at the vast majority of our signings since Vidic and Evra to varying degrees, it's been that bad, so tend not to give that too much weight.
 
whitbyviking said:
I think a lot of the AWB opinion now is revisionism. Of memory serves correct the news at the time was more or less universally positive, even in the usual external media, and amongst pundits. He was English, highly rated and people were saying he was the type of player United absolutely had to be in for.

the strange thing with AWB is that he’s never been able to improve his skill set, and the game has left him behind. Whether it’s confidence, lack of talent or laziness may become apparent when he leaves.
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Yes. I personally was looking forward to him developing. I typically do not worry about money. We have to pay United tax, English tax, so a 25m player costs us 40m. In terms of attributes, defensively, he was great, and an upgrade on our pretty non-existent right back position before him. He was rarely injured, and could be depended on. In fact, I remember arguing that once he has a proper right wing player ahead of him to partner with, he'll really shine. It's hard to form any partnerships with Rashford, Martial whose work-rate is limited and they're not right-side regulars.

The hope, universally, was that we could coach positioning and attacking patterns into him to complement his 1v1 defensive ability. But that hope was never realized.. How much of it was down to AWB vs our coaching staff, is a point of discussion.
 
It's easy for us to only see the positives when watching a player that has been linked to us and not project their strengths/weaknesses into our team correctly. Especially when there is a lack of clarity as to what sort of team we really want to be. But we're not professional scouts, so there's no expectation on us to be correct. Hardly surprising that when we actually saw him in our team across a lot of games his crippling flaws became more and more apparent.

And even then the truth is that as soon as he was linked to us there were posters immediately flagging his weaknesses going forward, right from the opening pages of his transfer thread. What was perhaps underestimated at time (and sometimes even still by some) were his flaws defensively and in non-attacking possession. The problem isn't just that he isn't good going forward.
 
whitbyviking said:
I think a lot of the AWB opinion now is revisionism. Of memory serves correct the news at the time was more or less universally positive, even in the usual external media, and amongst pundits. He was English, highly rated and people were saying he was the type of player United absolutely had to be in for.

the strange thing with AWB is that he’s never been able to improve his skill set, and the game has left him behind. Whether it’s confidence, lack of talent or laziness may become apparent when he leaves.
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Nah there was a sizeable portion of the caf (me included) that weren’t at all convinced by his technical ability. Was so easy to call the caf eventually turning on him and a progressive manager wanting to replace him. Obviously these concerns were drowned out by the hivemind noise: “he doesn’t have a chance to attack for Palace” “he was a former winger, of course he can attack” “he can improve technically, he’s only young” “if he can shut down his opposite man it doesn’t matter” etc.
 
Silas said:
Nah there was a sizeable portion of the caf (me included) that weren’t at all convinced by his technical ability. Was so easy to call the caf eventually turning on him and a progressive manager wanting to replace him. Obviously these concerns were drowned out by the hivemind noise: “he doesn’t have a chance to attack for Palace” “he was a former winger, of course he can attack” “he can improve technically, he’s only young” “if he can shut down his opposite man it doesn’t matter” etc.
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Yeah there were some of us that wanted Max Aarons because of his technical ability, and his age. Not like he's been good though, but that's what we thought at the time.
 
phelans shorts said:
Given Elanga was on the other side roasting Trent, I’m going to take your assessment with a pinch of salt.
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You are correct, it was Sancho on that side, that’s my mistake.

However, the comment on Dalot’s ability as a defender stands. If you watch Dalot very carefully, I think you’ll find he was at least partially responsible for 3 or 4 of the 7 goals we’ve let in this season. He was bad last season too.

Just because AWB is poor doesn’t automatically mean that Dalot is good enough. Both of them, in their current form, are nowhere near the level that is needed at Manchester United. I can only imagine that Ten Hag sees enough in Dalot that he can survive til January.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I bet this will be the Financial people who won’t want a big write off hit on him


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Not surprised. Our current football department are very much an extension of the regime that brought him in the first place.

They even tried to get Phelan on ETHs staff which says a lot about how they feel about his contributions to our transfer strategy. They didn't understand his technical limitations when they spent 50m and they don't understand it now. Probably think some magical coaching will turn him world class.

We're going to be back here in 12 months abusing them for not reading the signs. Thus begins a 12 month tape on why low technical talent can't fit a philosophy like ETH's
 
Marwood said:
I keep reading this.

Guys fullbacks were expected to attack in 2012 as well.

AWB's shortcomings would also have been problematic back then as they are now.
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I think there’s something in it, but more in the sort of defending that’s required now v then, and “then” was probably more than 10-15 years ago.

The days of the line-hugging winger are largely gone; wide players these days want to cut in at every opportunity. AWB would have been consistently effective against the old type. Though as you say being able to at least add to the attack has been a thing for full backs for longer than that, as has dealing with far post crosses.
 
Sounds like the same people who didn't want to sell Maguire pff.

We need competition for Dalot that's the bottom line. AWB isn't it. He was bad when he was getting regular football imagine him coming in to an unfamiliar backline with an injury or something after months out in the cold.
 
can we not just sell AWB and get funds for a similar purchase to Malacia? He didnt cost a whole lot and seems to be doing well so far and fits what ETH wants.
 
It actually works, I got a new phone without the warranty with a spot on the screen and then I said feck it, I'm using it till it dies.

Here I am after 3 years and it's the longest I've kept the same phone.
 


Even if this turns out to be a small-paying loan (hopefully with financial penalties if he's not played when fit) it is better than not even giving him a shop-window.
 
Full sale please. Get him of the books, even at a cut price sale if possible. We can't have first team players out on loan imo.
 
Beachryan said:
Full sale please. Get him of the books, even at a cut price sale if possible. We can't have first team players out on loan imo.
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I get your sentiment but it's fine to take these scenarios on a case to case basis. Half a season loan for a player who cost us 50m, will only serve to increase his sale price. He'll get to play and he'll be perfectly fine and might even get interest from bigger clubs. We won't get 50m but he'll be a steal for whoever gets him I think.
 
There is still footage of AWB playing for Palace and keeping Leroy Sane in his pocket, as well as driving down the flanks, getting to the byline and whipping crosses in. Palace won that game at the Etihad 2-3. And he was instrumental in that win. Think he got an assist.

He came to United and got himself stuck in a defence mode. He forgot how to run with the ball up the pitch. He seemed to panic whenever he got near the halfway line. His last ditch tackles seemed to be his best skill. If you have to make a last ditch tackle it is because you messed up in the first place.

I can totally understand why Ten Hag doesn't rate him. He isn't aggressively winning the ball higher up the pitch, he is waiting for someone to run past him, so he can slide tackle them.
 
phelans shorts said:
Personally I remember being negative on the signing, then his first season I thought he showed enough that maybe I was wrong. Then the wheels came off entirely, Leipzig away was probably the game where I gave up entirely on him so I’m going to guess others who were more positive than me also saw it as a tipping point.
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AWB is most definitely not a RB that is a good fit for ETH to invest in.

But I still don’t think AWB is a bad player at all. He is 25 y/o. During his time here, we finished 3, 2 and 6 with him as a mainstay on the first team. When he missed time, we were a worse team. When he played — he definitely contributed to our performance on the field. And like, that performance was certainly not horrible.

Like I could definitely see him doing really well in the Bundesliga for example. I could definitely see him making a team like Crystal a lot harder to play against in the Premier League. It is a bit odd that we can’t get like 25m for him. What was the last rumors, 10-15m?

At the same time, keeping him on the bench for a year won’t do his value on transfermarket any favors that is for sure.
 
i remember AWB being great in the tackle but a bit shite retaining posession and a bit clueless with the ball. i always thought he might be able to put a shift in at centre back given maguire's huge dip in form last season.
anyway, he should move on if he wants a career - sitting on the bench with us must be soul-destroying.
 
I think he’s a good player, born in the wrong era (same could be said about Maguire). Part of mean thought/hoped that he wasn’t injured at all, just training privately to work on his attacking game and positioning - but it doesn’t seem like it’s the case
 
Not knowing much about ETH’s personality, but you would kind of think given how he has improved Dalot and hearing about him working with other players that there must be something up with AWB that he doesn’t feel like he can coach him.

I think I did hear AWB has been injured but he has raw ingredients and feels like the rest could be worked upon.He is surely a decent enough “option” for RB to at least give Dalot a break from time to time. He’s also a game raiser when he is up against someone. Like Mbappe. He went to war with him, and there have been others like that.

Just makes me think that maybe Bissaka has made it clear he wants out as we will never get the money back for him but he’s decent enough to be back up or even challenge for starts.
 
Is Ethan Laird in a place where he could come back and contribute? He's been on loan at QPR in the Championship and is their starting RB, started every single one of their league games. Anybody know how he's been getting on?

He is 21 and his contract expires in the summer. Surely he either gets a new contract and comes back as a squad player or he is let go of.
 
Wheato said:
There is still footage of AWB playing for Palace and keeping Leroy Sane in his pocket, as well as driving down the flanks, getting to the byline and whipping crosses in. Palace won that game at the Etihad 2-3. And he was instrumental in that win. Think he got an assist.

He came to United and got himself stuck in a defence mode. He forgot how to run with the ball up the pitch. He seemed to panic whenever he got near the halfway line. His last ditch tackles seemed to be his best skill. If you have to make a last ditch tackle it is because you messed up in the first place.

I can totally understand why Ten Hag doesn't rate him. He isn't aggressively winning the ball higher up the pitch, he is waiting for someone to run past him, so he can slide tackle them.
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Didn't he have more assists than Shaw in his first couple of seasons? At least his first season he did.
 
MadMike said:
Is Ethan Laird in a place where he could come back and contribute? He's been on loan at QPR in the Championship and is their starting RB, started every single one of their league games. Anybody know how he's been getting on?

He is 21 and his contract expires in the summer. Surely he either gets a new contract and comes back as a squad player or he is let go of.
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If I'm honest, I struggle to see how he jumps that far next season, based on our ambitions - assuming it's CL football and challenging for title.

We'd need a proper plan for him over the next 2 years, or he should probably find a club where he gets the most minutes and experience.
 
Lash said:
If I'm honest, I struggle to see how he jumps that far next season, based on our ambitions - assuming it's CL football and challenging for title.

We'd need a proper plan for him over the next 2 years, or he should probably find a club where he gets the most minutes and experience.
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Hes 22 this summer I think ... never played for england U21 so as you say it would be a very big jump for him to be in the 1st team and his contract expires this summer with an option to extend one year

Wouldnt be surprised if we look to strike a deal with QPR in the January window
 
Jippy said:
That's interesting. I missed most of the Champions League games that season and these are usually frustrations are obviously cumulative too.

It feels like the overpaid argument could be levelled at the vast majority of our signings since Vidic and Evra to varying degrees, it's been that bad, so tend not to give that too much weight.
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There's overpriced... And there's this...


Some players we're just overpriced but they're functional..AWB Is.. mind buffling from all angle
 
Marwood said:
Didn't he have more assists than Shaw in his first couple of seasons? At least his first season he did.
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AWB's final ball into the box is ok. Not great, but it's not something I'd really criticise too much. He doesn't get into position enough to play those balls, but that is something that might be able to be worked on.

It's his play in the build-up which is absolutely bottom-tier, which is a huge issue for any manager who wants to use their fullbacks in the build-up. Which makes it difficult for AWB as more and more managers are really using their fullbacks to act as an extra playmaker, including ETH.
 
sun_tzu said:
Hes 22 this summer I think ... never played for england U21 so as you say it would be a very big jump for him to be in the 1st team and his contract expires this summer with an option to extend one year

Wouldnt be surprised if we look to strike a deal with QPR in the January window
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Why would it be QPR when we have Laird on loan there and performing well.
 
Silas said:
Nah there was a sizeable portion of the caf (me included) that weren’t at all convinced by his technical ability. Was so easy to call the caf eventually turning on him and a progressive manager wanting to replace him. Obviously these concerns were drowned out by the hivemind noise: “he doesn’t have a chance to attack for Palace” “he was a former winger, of course he can attack” “he can improve technically, he’s only young” “if he can shut down his opposite man it doesn’t matter” etc.
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He couldn't pass, but the surprising thing has been that he can't dribble, really. He's a converted ex-winger and when closed down at Palace he seemed really quick laterally in shifting the ball away to carry it or make a pass when he had to, but he's looked terrified to use his pace with the ball here, and there's really nothing else he can do in possession other than that.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Not knowing much about ETH’s personality, but you would kind of think given how he has improved Dalot and hearing about him working with other players that there must be something up with AWB that he doesn’t feel like he can coach him.

I think I did hear AWB has been injured but he has raw ingredients and feels like the rest could be worked upon.He is surely a decent enough “option” for RB to at least give Dalot a break from time to time. He’s also a game raiser when he is up against someone. Like Mbappe. He went to war with him, and there have been others like that.

Just makes me think that maybe Bissaka has made it clear he wants out as we will never get the money back for him but he’s decent enough to be back up or even challenge for starts.
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My guess is Ten Hag just thinks he's too far away in terms of passing the ball well enough to be part of his team long-term and if they're both gonna be a 6/10 he'd rather get Malacia time, even if it's out of position, since he clearly believes he has the raw ingredients to be a starting quality left-back, just needs time and development.

I mooted Bournemouth as a good fit for Pellistri, but Wan-Bissaka isn't the worst idea either. If he can't beat out Adam Smith, I'm not sure there's anywhere in the Prem he can go other than Crystal Palace, barring a serious injury to someone like Castagne (now that Justin James is hurt), Patterson, Cash or Kristiansen since those teams lack cover. Maybe the Bundesliga or Serie A. Smalling also had passing issues and he's done well there.
 
sun_tzu said:
Because was talking about selling laird he's there and performing well so striking a permanent deal with them might be an easy deal to do if eth is not convinced laird is ready to step up to a cl level team
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Sorry, I thought you meant selling AWB to QPR.
 
NoPace said:
My guess is Ten Hag just thinks he's too far away in terms of passing the ball well enough to be part of his team long-term and if they're both gonna be a 6/10 he'd rather get Malacia time, even if it's out of position, since he clearly believes he has the raw ingredients to be a starting quality left-back, just needs time and development.

I mooted Bournemouth as a good fit for Pellistri, but Wan-Bissaka isn't the worst idea either. If he can't beat out Adam Smith, I'm not sure there's anywhere in the Prem he can go other than Crystal Palace, barring a serious injury to someone like Castagne (now that Justin James is hurt), Patterson, Cash or Kristiansen since those teams lack cover. Maybe the Bundesliga or Serie A. Smalling also had passing issues and he's done well there.
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Maybe but then again I think we as Fans probably exaggerate how bad his passing is. I mean for most of his time here if he received the ball his only option was give it back to Maguire or punt it up the wing. We were just terrible and none of Bruno, Fred or McT would really ever give an option for a pass. Shaw suffered much of the same fate but he is just generally a better passer and ball carrier so it wasn’t as apparent.

By no means a Bissaka fan and to be honest I’m not that bothered if he goes but he just looks like someone that needs a bit of coaching and confidence, knock that over reliance of going to ground out of him and he’d be decent.
Probably not a starting RB for a challenging team, but good enough to fill in when needed.

Probably needs that fresh start elsewhere where he can play to get back to any kind of form.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Maybe but then again I think we as Fans probably exaggerate how bad his passing is. I mean for most of his time here if he received the ball his only option was give it back to Maguire or punt it up the wing. We were just terrible and none of Bruno, Fred or McT would really ever give an option for a pass. Shaw suffered much of the same fate but he is just generally a better passer and ball carrier so it wasn’t as apparent.

By no means a Bissaka fan and to be honest I’m not that bothered if he goes but he just looks like someone that needs a bit of coaching and confidence, knock that over reliance of going to ground out of him and he’d be decent.
Probably not a starting RB for a challenging team, but good enough to fill in when needed.

Probably needs that fresh start elsewhere where he can play to get back to any kind of form.
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Maguire played on the opposite side to him for every game unless I’m mistaken and there’s 1 or 2 exceptions, but of course other players being awful is actually his fault.
 
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