Virgil van Dijk | Performances

[El Jefe]

I think you'll find that you were the one who turned this into a Spurs vs Liverpool argument, by continually mentioning our loss in the CL final.

And obviously when a Spurs fan mentions the CL, you have to mention their absolute lack of presence in the competition; that extends to their players of course. Rather than me attempting to wind you up, it's just a fact.

My argument/opinion is simply that VVD is a better player than the two you mentioned. Not my fault that makes you salty. Your original point was that VVD is being hyped based off two games, when he's already eclipsed what any Tottenham defender has done in the competition.

I think his point is that it's ridiculous to make that sort of claim especially in the arrogant manner you've done so far. Alderweireld was the best CB in the league in 2016/17, while Vertonghen was the best CB in the league in 2017/18 so it really does seem delusional to say VVD is playing on a higher level than either of those two did.

For all we know, you might end up being right and VVD will go on to be a much better defender than both but for now no chance.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I think you'll find that you were the one who turned this into a Spurs vs Liverpool argument, by continually mentioning our loss in the CL final.

And obviously when a Spurs fan mentions the CL, you have to mention their absolute lack of presence in the competition; that extends to their players of course. Rather than me attempting to wind you up, it's just a fact.

My argument/opinion is simply that VVD is a better player than the two you mentioned. Not my fault that makes you salty. Your original point was that VVD is being hyped based off two games, when he's already eclipsed what any Tottenham defender has done in the competition.

What? How does me mentioning you didn't even win the CL turn this in to Spurs vs Liverpool? The topic was that VVD is supposedly better because he's accomplished something .. despite the fact he didn't actually win it. That was directly relevant, it's you who then started mouthing off about how we don't compete for trophies blah blah blah.

Our absolute lack of presence in the competition? We've qualified 3 times in recent memory ffs, the first we reached a quarter final and knocked out A.C Milan, the second we were poor, and in the third we topped a group ahead of Madrid and then were unfortunate to meet a Juventus side who had twice recently been finalists and are a genuine European elite, who came very close to knocking out the side who easily beat you. We can't all draw Porto first round. I 'mentioned the CL' because you brought it in to the conversation, your entire argument was that VVD is better because he took you to a CL final. I argued that a) not true and b) certainly not a bigger achievement than finishing 2nd in the league, which Toby & Vert did.

Your opinion isn't that he's better (That would be reasonable) but that he's on another level, which is a ridiculous idea and would likely make him the world's best defender. Hence why I called it hyperbole. Toby/Vert have eclipsed what VVD has done in the league, which is most reliable barometer of success as it's over far more games and stuff like like of the draw doesn't come in to play.

 

[shirked]

Dunno how you can’t see that Van Dijk is better than Vertonghen because Liverpool went further in the CL last season.

In fact it’s not just Van Dijk that’s better, it’s Fazio too. What a player he is, he took Roma to the semis and Vertonghen could only go to R16!

Shocked that Liverpool bought Allison to displace Karius. Karius went to the final and Allison could only make the semis! What are Liverpool thinking?

 

[Man of Leisure]

Good player who’s been exactly what Liverpool have been missing. Not sure why we weren’t after him. Sure, he was a record transfer for Liverpool, but it’s not like high price tags have previously scared us off. If he becomes a mainstay in their backline for the next few years, the money will be well spent and nobody will be talking about his fee. Prolly be their captain when Milner/Henderson finally slow down/feck off.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Dunno how you can’t see that Van Dijk is better than Vertonghen because Liverpool went further in the CL last season.

In fact it’s not just Van Dijk that’s better, it’s Fazio too. What a player he is, he took Roma to the semis and Vertonghen could only go to R16!

Shocked that Liverpool bought Allison to displace Karius. Karius went to the final and Allison could only make the semis! What are Liverpool thinking?

Yeah it's hilariously terrible logic, even funnier when you consider Liverpool's side is basically made up of players signed from clubs where they never won anything at all, the likes of Mane, Salah (except his 'trophy' at Chelsea), VVD, Robertson, Keita, Alisson, Firmino .. pretty much their entire side, all have never won a major trophy in their club careers. Almost like good players can also play for teams who aren't winning trophies. We may not have won anything, but we have a number of very good players who could play for top European clubs, it's just the likes of City have more of those players.

Even more foolish when you consider that Vertonghen has been a crucial part of a team which has consistently finished ahead of Liverpool in the league, including last season whilst playing alongside an inexperienced partner who was new to the league. Truth is all three are very good defenders and I'd probably say there is very little between them, all have improved the sides they have joined defensively, and all can look extremely dominant when on the ball. I'd love VVD at Spurs, he's got everything a modern central defender needs and for me is definitely top five in the league.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Good player who’s been exactly what Liverpool have been missing. Not sure why we weren’t after him. Sure, he was a record transfer for Liverpool, but it’s not like high price tags have previously scared us off. If he becomes a mainstay in their backline for the next few years, the money will be well spent and nobody will be talking about his fee. Prolly be their captain when Milner/Henderson finally slow down/feck off.

Nobody is really talking about the fee already, if you have a clear deficiency in your team and a player is available who can solve that, you pay the money if you are able to do so. That's what they have done with Keita/Alisson/VVD, and it's really impressive, I'll admit to being envious of how well they have backed Klopp. Going for the cheaper, less proven option carries with it a far greater chance of failure, and the likelihood is you'll have to dip in to the market again anyway, with Van Djik they've got a mainstay in their defence for years to come.

He was exactly what they lacked, a properly dominant presence in the centre of defence to step in and assert himself. He brings calm to the rest of their backline, him along with Robertson was fantastic business (the latter being a steal) as both are so much more reliable than the alternatives. With Alisson coming in as well, whilst it's early days you have to say if he replicates his Roma performances they've turned a dodgy backline around and it could make a real difference, and absolutely nobody will care about the prices then.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

I think his point is that it's ridiculous to make that sort of claim especially in the arrogant manner you've done so far. Alderweireld was the best CB in the league in 2016/17, while Vertonghen was the best CB in the league in 2017/18 so it really does seem delusional to say VVD is playing on a higher level than either of those two did.

For all we know, you might end up being right and VVD will go on to be a much better defender than both but for now no chance.

It's ridiculous/arrogant to suggest VVD is better? Not really, it's just my opinion.

'For now no chance'. Alderweireld has barely played in the last year? Why no chance?

Was Gary Neville being ridiculous on Monday night by comparing him to Jaap Stam? Or Carragher, who stated that he should go down as Liverpool's best defender since Alan Hansen?

Whilst I agree it's early days, it's fine and not always knee jerk to lavish praise on a top, top player when you see one.

What? How does me mentioning you didn't even win the CL turn this in to Spurs vs Liverpool? The topic was that VVD is supposedly better because he's accomplished something .. despite the fact he didn't actually win it. That was directly relevant, it's you who then started mouthing off about how we don't compete for trophies blah blah blah.

Our absolute lack of presence in the competition? We've qualified 3 times in recent memory ffs, the first we reached a quarter final and knocked out A.C Milan, the second we were poor, and in the third we topped a group ahead of Madrid and then were unfortunate to meet a Juventus side who had twice recently been finalists and are a genuine European elite, who came very close to knocking out the side who easily beat you. We can't all draw Porto first round. I 'mentioned the CL' because you brought it in to the conversation, your entire argument was that VVD is better because he took you to a CL final. I argued that a) not true and b) certainly not a bigger achievement than finishing 2nd in the league, which Toby & Vert did.

Your opinion isn't that he's better (That would be reasonable) but that he's on another level, which is a ridiculous idea and would likely make him the world's best defender. Hence why I called it hyperbole. Toby/Vert have eclipsed what VVD has done in the league, which is most reliable barometer of success as it's over far more games and stuff like like of the draw doesn't come in to play.

Because us losing the final has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I simply mentioned the fact that Spurs would be incredibly happy to make a CL final after you dismissed it.

So reaching the final of the CL isn't an achievement? Despite the fact that no English team has been there since 2012? Yep, means nothing

Indeed, you have effectively no presence in the competition. Have you ever been past the quarter finals? Again, that's not me being a WUM but simply stating fact.

I'm aware that suggesting VVD is better because he made the CL final is flawed logic. But I'm using it as an example of the impact he's had upon the team. It's been seismic and immediate.

We haven't conceded a goal at Anfield since February and our goals against column since his arrival is now in alignment with that of a title winning side.

The 'another level' comment was simply in referral to the fact that he's come in and performed at the highest level in the CL. Something Alderweireld and Vertonghen have consistently failed to do. It's just one barometer of comparison.

As for the league, he's played half a season at Liverpool. What do you expect?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

A fit Alderweireld is the best center half in the EPL. VDV is a clpse second.

 

[Rouge McDuck]

A fit Alderweireld is the best center half in the EPL. VDV is a clpse second.

That’s a valid opinion. I wanted Alderweireld when he was at Ajax. At Spurs, he plays in a solid unit with quality keeper and quality defensive players around him. Comparing players by comparing their teams, like some have done, isn’t going to give and accurate view of the individual players.

All I can do is give my view of the impact he has had on Liverpool, his suitability to the side, the leadership he brings, and his own attributes. As I said before, there’s absolutely zero chance I’d swap him for Alderweireld. I think he is a better player on his own merits, but way more importantly he improves the team around him and organises and leads in the way Liverpool desperately needs. Like Terry, Hyypia, Stam, Campbell, Ferdinand and the likes. His overall impact is, in my opinion, what puts him above Alderweireld. No amount of people stating as fact ‘no, Toby is better’ without any supporting rationale or evidence will convince me.

 

[vadimivich]

Neither of the Spurs pair of Belgians are much like VVD. Both are more continental - better on the ball and with less of a physical style.

VVD is a brute, in a good way. He's not nearly the player on the ball Verts or Toby is, but he's better in the air and he's a very physical defender. He's in the mold of guys like Vidic for sure.

Interestingly, when Spurs went to get a younger center half - Pochettino wanted a monster as well. Sanchez compliments the Belgians so well because he gives that pace and physicality that you sometimes want. Liverpool probably will keep looking for something like a young Vertonghen to pair with VVD for the ball playing and control - maybe De Light?

 

[B20]

Not sure I'd pick "better on the ball" as a distinguishing trait in a comparison. VVD is amazing on the ball. We aren't finding another centreback who is as good as he is going forwards

 

[amolbhatia50k]

VVD played against a complete donkey in Benteke yesterday, let's cool our jets before giving it the whole "best in the world" crap. I'll be interested to see how he fairs against Kane in a couple of weeks.

It's about consistency. Even Smalling has gobbled up Kane before. The question is whether VVD can have a top season.

 

[Treble]

Why no top club was after him just 2 years ago when he was 25 y.o.? Late bloomer or what?

Varane, for instance, is 25 and has been known as a top CB for ages.

 

[redman5]

You conceded 6 goals in 2 games against Roma .. bottom line, you weren't great defensively. It doesn't matter if all the goals were conceded in 5 minutes, they were still conceded and you were put under unnecessary pressure by conceding goals. I'm not about to hail a defence as fantastic when they failed to do their job, which is to stop the opposition team scoring. Porto are trash and their first leg performance vs you was one of the worst I've ever seen in a CL knockout, an utter disgrace.

I already said your first leg performance was excellent defensively, IMO that was your only game in the CL where your defence was exceptional. You did fantastically well to keep them out (Although they did score, and it was wrongly chalked off .. just like another of their goals was wrongly chalked off 2nd leg) but that was just one game. I'm not hailing VVD as on a different level to Toby/Vert on that basis, and he wasn't good enough in any of the other games to earn that kind of praise either, he was just very solid.

I think you've massively improved defensively, and VVD is a significant part of that, I rate him highly and you're right that he's the kind of defender who provides a fantastic platform for the rest of the team. I just don't think he's a level above the other top defenders in the league, he's done nowhere near enough yet to prove that, and saying so will deservedly get stick.

It's not desperation to cite goals conceded in a cup match, when somebody is claiming VVD is amazeballs based on those very cup matches.

& you conceded 4 goals in 2 games when you were defeated twice by Monaco in the CL in the very same season you only let in 26 goals in the PL. At least I can point to the fact that we, as a team, switched off against Roma. You were trying to qualify for the knockout stages with your best centre-backs in attendance, so the point I'm making, & the one you seem to be ignoring, is that comparing league performances to those in cup competitions is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Why no top club was after him just 2 years ago when he was 25 y.o.? Late bloomer or what?

Varane, for instance, is 25 and has been known as a top CB for ages.

It has been the case his whole career. When he was at Groningen no top sides were interested him not even the top sides in Holland. Ajax, PSV, AZ and Feyenoord all were not interested. So he ended up at Celtic(beating out Brighton). And obviously after leaving Celtic Southampton were the best side interested in him.

 

[RobinLFC]

It has been the case his whole career. When he was at Groningen no top sides were interested him not even the top sides in Holland. Ajax, PSV, AZ and Feyenoord all were not interested. So he ended up at Celtic(beating out Brighton). And obviously after leaving Celtic Southampton were the best side interested in him.

It's a crazy story yeah. At 19 years old, he wasn't allowed to join Willem II's first team which is why he crossed the whole country to Groningen in the first place. Rejected Brighton & Krasnodar in 2013 and offered himself to Overmars (Ajax) via his agent, but he wasn't interested and signed Van der Hoorn instead who's now at Swansea.

Sometimes you just have these kind of late bloomers, can't all be Mbappes and Varanes.

 

[B20]

It has been the case his whole career. When he was at Groningen no top sides were interested him not even the top sides in Holland. Ajax, PSV, AZ and Feyenoord all were not interested. So he ended up at Celtic(beating out Brighton). And obviously after leaving Celtic Southampton were the best side interested in him.

It's bizarre really. What weren't they seeing in him?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

It's bizarre really. What weren't they seeing in him?

My theory is that his best quality(his aerial ability) would not heavily appreciated in a league like the Eredivisie. And when he was at Celtic the obvious answer was the top clubs in England would be hesitant buying a player straight from Scotland.

 

[Lash]

It's about consistency. Even Smalling has gobbled up Kane before. The question is whether VVD can have a top season.

True, I was just trying to highlight he hadn't even had a real test anyway.

 

[Treble]

It's bizarre really. What weren't they seeing in him?

Didn't look very solid in defence?

I remember him from 2-3 years ago and he didn't quite impress at the time. Obiously it wasn't only me. Maybe he's matured the last year or so.

 

[Varun]

Why no top club was after him just 2 years ago when he was 25 y.o.? Late bloomer or what?

Varane, for instance, is 25 and has been known as a top CB for ages.

Forget 2yrs ago, poor bloke must be wondering why a top club hasn't shown interest even now

 

[B20]

Didn't look very solid in defence?

I remember him from 2-3 years ago and he didn't quite impress at the time. Obiously it wasn't only me. Maybe he's matured the last year or so.

I just find it odd that in the netherlands, a young player with such obvious natural attributes, and strong ballplaying ability to boot, didn't have his potential recognised. You'd think a talent scout somewhere would have said "he's got flaws, but we can work with this."

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That’s a valid opinion. I wanted Alderweireld when he was at Ajax. At Spurs, he plays in a solid unit with quality keeper and quality defensive players around him. Comparing players by comparing their teams, like some have done, isn’t going to give and accurate view of the individual players.

All I can do is give my view of the impact he has had on Liverpool, his suitability to the side, the leadership he brings, and his own attributes. As I said before, there’s absolutely zero chance I’d swap him for Alderweireld. I think he is a better player on his own merits, but way more importantly he improves the team around him and organises and leads in the way Liverpool desperately needs. Like Terry, Hyypia, Stam, Campbell, Ferdinand and the likes. His overall impact is, in my opinion, what puts him above Alderweireld. No amount of people stating as fact ‘no, Toby is better’ without any supporting rationale or evidence will convince me.

The fact is Alderweireld would give you every single thing VDV gives Livperpool currently and more. He is a stupendous leader, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball, has pace and improves the defending of those around him. Case in point is how good he used to make Jose Fonte look at Southampton. He is also the superior one one one defender. Its one of the reason clubs like yours and the United's even couldn't even realistically attempt to look his way until he fell out with Pochetino. In addition the only reason you'd be plain mad to ever exchange a VDV for TA is much is younger and the natural successor as best cb in the league so it shoulnt be used as a drfence fir why you might think VDV is better than TA.

Right now VDV is a better fit for Pool. But still he has more to do to prove the better CB than TA.

 

[VorZakone]

I just find it odd that in the netherlands, a young player with such obvious natural attributes, and strong ballplaying ability to boot, didn't have his potential recognised. You'd think a talent scout somewhere would have said "he's got flaws, but we can work with this."

It's odd indeed. I don't know what Groningen were asking for him though. Maybe he would have been too expensive for Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord?

 

[Rouge McDuck]

The fact is Alderweireld would give you every single thing VDV gives Livperpool currently and more. He is a stupendous leader, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball, has pace and improves the defending of those around him. Case in point is how good he used to make Lovren look at Southampton. He is also the superior one one one defender. Its one of the reason clubs like yours and the United's even couldn't even realistically attempt to look his way until he fell out with Pochetino. In addition the only reason you'd be plain mad to ever exchange a VDV for TA is much is younger and the natural successor as best cb in the league so it shoulnt be used as a drfence fir why you might think VDV is better than TA.

Right now VDV is a better fit for Pool. But still he has more to do to prove the better CB than TA.

That IS NOT a fact, that is an opinion. I don’t agree with it either. I think VVD (I’m assuming you aren’t actually talking about Van Der Vaart) is better in pretty much every single way, and I thought that before we signed him. That’s my opinion.

And TA must be a hell of a leader to improve players they didn’t play with!

 

[PvsNP]

I just find it odd that in the netherlands, a young player with such obvious natural attributes, and strong ballplaying ability to boot, didn't have his potential recognised. You'd think a talent scout somewhere would have said "he's got flaws, but we can work with this."

Something is very wrong institutionally in the Netherlands. Just look how average their NT is these days, easily the worst side they've ever had.

 

[Liver_bird]

The fact is Alderweireld would give you every single thing VDV gives Livperpool currently and more. He is a stupendous leader, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball, has pace and improves the defending of those around him. Case in point is how good he used to make Lovren look at Southampton. He is also the superior one one one defender. Its one of the reason clubs like yours and the United's even couldn't even realistically attempt to look his way until he fell out with Pochetino. In addition the only reason you'd be plain mad to ever exchange a VDV for TA is much is younger and the natural successor as best cb in the league so it shoulnt be used as a drfence fir why you might think VDV is better than TA.

Right now VDV is a better fit for Pool. But still he has more to do to prove the better CB than TA.

Would be pretty hard for him to have done considering Alderweireld and Lovren never played together at Southampton at the same time.

 

[Paul Martin]

He's been at the club for half a season, in which he led us to a CL final. Hence the 'playing at a higher level than Alder and Vertonghen' comment.

On that basis, Lovren is playing at a higher level then Alder and Vertonghen...

 

[Oga on top.]

The fact is Alderweireld would give you every single thing VDV gives Livperpool currently and more. He is a stupendous leader, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball, has pace and improves the defending of those around him. Case in point is how good he used to make Lovren look at Southampton. He is also the superior one one one defender. Its one of the reason clubs like yours and the United's even couldn't even realistically attempt to look his way until he fell out with Pochetino. In addition the only reason you'd be plain mad to ever exchange a VDV for TA is much is younger and the natural successor as best cb in the league so it shoulnt be used as a drfence fir why you might think VDV is better than TA.

Right now VDV is a better fit for Pool. But still he has more to do to prove the better CB than TA.

Alderweireld never once played with Lovren to have made him look good. I'm not doubting he would have, but they never played together. Damn you @Liver_bird

 

[Paul Martin]

You conceded 6 goals in 2 games against Roma .. bottom line, you weren't great defensively. It doesn't matter if all the goals were conceded in 5 minutes, they were still conceded and you were put under unnecessary pressure by conceding goals. I'm not about to hail a defence as fantastic when they failed to do their job, which is to stop the opposition team scoring. Porto are trash and their first leg performance vs you was one of the worst I've ever seen in a CL knockout, an utter disgrace.

I already said your first leg performance was excellent defensively, IMO that was your only game in the CL where your defence was exceptional. You did fantastically well to keep them out (Although they did score, and it was wrongly chalked off .. just like another of their goals was wrongly chalked off 2nd leg) but that was just one game. I'm not hailing VVD as on a different level to Toby/Vert on that basis, and he wasn't good enough in any of the other games to earn that kind of praise either, he was just very solid.

I think you've massively improved defensively, and VVD is a significant part of that, I rate him highly and you're right that he's the kind of defender who provides a fantastic platform for the rest of the team. I just don't think he's a level above the other top defenders in the league, he's done nowhere near enough yet to prove that, and saying so will deservedly get stick.

It's not desperation to cite goals conceded in a cup match, when somebody is claiming VVD is amazeballs based on those very cup matches.

Agree with most of us. VVD makes a massive difference to us, mainly in terms of the composure he exudes to those around him, in a previously panicky back 4. But let's not get ahead of ourselves until we've kept clean sheets consistently against the top 6.

We like to quote the stats on the improvement in goals conceded in the PL whilst conveniently ignoring the CL & FA cup.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

That IS NOT a fact, that is an opinion. I don’t agree with it either.

I assure, if we were to make a direct statistical comparison of the two over the past 2 seasons in the league. Your favoured man would not come out on top.

And TA must be a hell of a leader to improve players they didn’t play with!

to be fair. the player I wanted to mention was Fonte not Lovren my word

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Would be pretty hard for him to have done considering Alderweireld and Lovren never played together at Southampton at the same time.

oops had wanted to say fonte

 

[Mcking]

The fact is Alderweireld would give you every single thing VDV gives Livperpool currently and more. He is a stupendous leader, dominant in the air, excellent on the ball, has pace and improves the defending of those around him. Case in point is how good he used to make Jose Fonte look at Southampton. He is also the superior one one one defender. Its one of the reason clubs like yours and the United's even couldn't even realistically attempt to look his way until he fell out with Pochetino. In addition the only reason you'd be plain mad to ever exchange a VDV for TA is much is younger and the natural successor as best cb in the league so it shoulnt be used as a drfence fir why you might think VDV is better than TA.

Right now VDV is a better fit for Pool. But still he has more to do to prove the better CB than TA.

Alderweireld if anything, is poor on the air. I'd consider Van Dijk better in one on one too.
Edit - I can't even think of anything Alderweireld is superior than Van Dijk on the field.

 

[Perseus]

It has been the case his whole career. When he was at Groningen no top sides were interested him not even the top sides in Holland. Ajax, PSV, AZ and Feyenoord all were not interested. So he ended up at Celtic(beating out Brighton). And obviously after leaving Celtic Southampton were the best side interested in him.

I don't think Brighton could afford his £30K pw wages at Celtic, hampered by FFP as a Championship club. Poyet did his nut, complaining about a glass season on transfers.

 

[Joseforever]

Very Solid player, the best defender in the world sorry not having that no chance! The likes of Godin, Ramos, Varane, Umtiti and Vertonghen are all above him in that regards.

For Van Dijk to be defender in the world he needs to lead Liverpool to the League title or Champions League or be consistently great for 3-4 years instead of 6 months like the defenders I have mentioned have been.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

& you conceded 4 goals in 2 games when you were defeated twice by Monaco in the CL in the very same season you only let in 26 goals in the PL. At least I can point to the fact that we, as a team, switched off against Roma. You were trying to qualify for the knockout stages with your best centre-backs in attendance, so the point I'm making, & the one you seem to be ignoring, is that comparing league performances to those in cup competitions is like comparing apples to oranges.

You're missing the point entirely, again. Both you and @ShadesOfTomato seem to be under the impression that I'm claiming Toby/Vert are the best defenders ever, and that we have a fantastic CL record. We don't, our defenders have made mistakes, had poor games etc .. hence why I haven't claimed they're on 'another level' to VVD, which is what the original claim is.

My very simple point is that the argument made was VVD was part of a team that reached the final, so apparently he's a better defender and has achieved more in his career. All I'm saying is you weren't anywhere near good enough defensively in that campaign (you'd have had to be exceptional) for it to be true, and even then it's too small a number of games. For some reason this has been made in to a Spurs vs Liverpool CL record debate when I'm perfectly aware of our own recent shortcomings in the competition.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Because us losing the final has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I simply mentioned the fact that Spurs would be incredibly happy to make a CL final after you dismissed it.

So reaching the final of the CL isn't an achievement? Despite the fact that no English team has been there since 2012? Yep, means nothing

Indeed, you have effectively no presence in the competition. Have you ever been past the quarter finals? Again, that's not me being a WUM but simply stating fact.

I'm aware that suggesting VVD is better because he made the CL final is flawed logic. But I'm using it as an example of the impact he's had upon the team. It's been seismic and immediate.

We haven't conceded a goal at Anfield since February and our goals against column since his arrival is now in alignment with that of a title winning side.

The 'another level' comment was simply in referral to the fact that he's come in and performed at the highest level in the CL. Something Alderweireld and Vertonghen have consistently failed to do. It's just one barometer of comparison.

As for the league, he's played half a season at Liverpool. What do you expect?

Of course we would .. and no I didn't dismiss it, it's a great achievement. It's just you were being incredibly arrogant about it and I felt the need to remind you that it ended in defeat.

It's irrelevant? No, Tottenham don't have a great presence in the competition. The current team have only qualified twice, it's a cup competition. The second time we did very well and went out by a single goal to Juventus, it was a very difficult draw, they would be favourites to knock out Liverpool as well.

I'm sure he's had a big impact on the team. He's a very good defender. My point is the likes of Toby/Vert would have had a similar impact, because a classy, comfortable defender is what you needed. VVD is probably better suited to you in terms of what he offers, but it doesn't make him on another level to either of them.

Too short a space of time, also still wouldn't mean he's on another level to anybody else. Other guys like Robertson came in and had an impact.

It's an irrelevant point, Toby/Vert have both put in very good CL performances, they didn't 'fail' at anything, they just played in teams who weren't quite strong enough to go further. It's a cup competition, luck of the draw plays a huge role, we played more top European sides than you did and we went out in the first round.

Nothing, my point is Toby/Vert have consistently been part of one of the best league defences around, so let's give them a bit of respect and not declare a player who has had 6 months at his club better, shall we?

 

[Fowler'sLeftPeg]

Couldn't care less about if he's best in the league, world, milky way, universe etc.

He's an absolute unit and in my 20 odd years of following Liverpool, I've never seen a CB as accomplished and naturally gifted as Virgil. Hyppia was the benchmark for me and this fella outplays him, I reckon. There are no weaknesses in his game. None. Even the supposed 'lapses in concentration' don't lead to goals conceded. Recovery pace is strengths but we more often than not, don't get to see it because he's diffusing threats way before they need recovering. Benteke, for all his lack of goals never really had a game where he won 1, I repeat, 1 header in opp penalty box all game. Outside, he won 5/11. All against VvD.

The man has pace to burn, passes like a champ (89% completion rate what !) and rarely loses the ball. But his most important contribution has been his leadership. Poor Mane got a real bollocking against West Ham for a misplaced pass. Robertson has already benefited loads from VvD being on his side of the defense. Look at the match from Monday and observe him, literally teaching Gomez how to react, where to pass, applauding his tackles and passes etc.

He is our most important player. Not Salah, Mane or Bobby. 75m ? Pffft. Bargain !

Liverpool in PL since loss to Spurs in Oct 2017: (Source : Sky MNF)

Games 31
Goals Conceded 22 (1st in PL)
Clean Sheets 15 (1st in PL)
Shots faced 208(2nd in PL)
Shots on target faced 70 (1st in PL)

Mostly down to him and some tweaks by Klopp (restraining one side of fullback while other attacks, etc )

 

[Can23]

Very Solid player, the best defender in the world sorry not having that no chance! The likes of Godin, Ramos, Varane, Umtiti and Vertonghen are all above him in that regards.

For Van Dijk to be defender in the world he needs to lead Liverpool to the League title or Champions League or be consistently great for 3-4 years instead of 6 months like the defenders I have mentioned have been.

I think VVD is easily in the top 5 in the CB in the EPL, not the world. I'm interested why you've placed Vertonghen in such esteemed company there, considering what the rest have won and done consistently he's not in the same bracket. In his first 3 seasons at spurs they had the 8th, 9th and 16th best defensive record, it was only after Toby joined that they improved dramatically in my opinion. Even last season they only conceded 2 less goals then us and we're supposedly dodgy at the back.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I hope the Liverpool fans are exaggerating their player once again.

No weaknesses sounds like a bit much to be honest.