That wasn't my point. It was more about how knee-jerk football fans are in general these days. Judgments are made far too quickly.
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Indeed .. you'll see people laughing at/mocking rival players making mistakes across every forum, 'tis nothing new or strange, people love a good opportunity to laugh at a rival. It's not always necessarily logical, but that's part of being a football fan.
We’d be massively deluded if that was the case. Is he doing well? Absolutely. Best in the world? You having a laugh?
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Bizarre, isn't it. He's played 2 games this season against two poor sides, you would think he had just single handedly stopped Barcelona and Madrid from scoring. Such fecking hyperbole.
I think it's more a case of wishful thinking on behalf of opposition supporters.
Players and managers get written off far too quickly for my liking. Some of the early posts in this thread were banter, and others were decisive declarations that he was rubbish.
Now there's some calling him world class after two games. Knee-jerk's everywhere.
He is decent though.
He's quality and we should have signed him, it's depressing to watch. If Liverpool get Alderweireld next summer I'll just stop watching football.
Like proclaiming a player is better than Alder and vertonghen after two games?
When you beat us 4-1 at Wembley nearly 12 months ago, that was the 16th league goal we'd conceded in our opening 9 games. Lovren had a mare that day & questions were being asked by many people as to why Klopp didn't seek an alternative to VVD after the summer transfer fiasco. However, since that heavy defeat, & even before VVD signed, we showed great improvement in the defensive area. Bringing in the 2 young full-backs (TAA & Roberston) certainly injected a bit of pace into the back 4. Then the arrival of the big Dutchman helped consolidate us in an area that had been problematic for us for quite a few seasons. We're now in a position whereby we've only conceded 10 goals in the 16 league games he's played. So yeah, we're all a little bit giddy at how much things have changed for the better in less than 12 months. & yeah, we need to transfer those positive figures right across a full season before heralding VVD as the 2nd coming of Alan Hansen. If we can get anywhere near Spurs defensive record of a couple of seasons ago when you only conceded 26 goals (I think), then I reckon we'll be more than justified into believing good times are ahead. Even more so when you consider that the average age of our back 4 & keeper last night was just 23.
Exactly. Knee-jerk.
It's cause people take it way too seriously although there are the idiots that genuinely believe their own comments. End of the day it's the best football forum out there.
Man, he's very good but I don't think anybody does over dramatic like some Liverpool fans do. You've played nobody who has properly threatened you recently, he's not playing at a higher level than Vert and Alder 'ever achieved', behave. Those two were the lynchpin of the best PL defence two seasons ago, Toby was an absolute monster both defensively and bringing it out of the defence, last season Vertonghen was comfortably the best CB in the league. VVD is a physical beast who can look very impressive, but let's wait till you play a top side this season before declaring him the new Maldini, perhaps?
The way you describe him it's like you think he's the best CB ever, 2 games in to this season with you having played Palace and West Ham. Calm down ffs.
Two games? Erm, we signed him in January, not this summer you do know? That CL run does not happen without him.
I've seen enough to have realised he's a level above the Spurs duo *shrugs shoulders emoji*. That great duo that won the square root of feck all.
What exactly has VVD won?
He's been at the club for half a season, in which he led us to a CL final. Hence the 'playing at a higher level than Alder and Vertonghen' comment.
Feck this scouse cnut. Lindelof will be better than him eventually
Yeah actually not
Yeah actually not
And lost. Congrats. He's won exactly as much as Toby and Vertonghen though the other two also acquitted themselves quite well in Belgium's WC campaign.
So you agree?
Also, am I right in thinking that as a Spurs fan you'd give your left bollock (and probably your right one too) to be in a CL final?
As usual people want to take it to the extreme. He's not the world's best CB and he's not shit either. He's a very good CB, arguably top 5 in the PL, and therefore would have been an excellent buy for any PL side.
I'm a United fan.
Sure getting to the CL final was a great achievement for Liverpool. Having the best defensive record in the PL and finishing 2nd was a great achievement for Spurs in 16/17. VVD isn't operating at a level higher than what those two have achieved.
Surely they're operating at the same level considering they're playing the same competitions!
He's easily one of the top 5 centre backs in the PL in my opinion. You can't blame some of us for being over excited, we haven't had a proper defender at the club for years most of us have forgotten what it's like to have someone reliable in defence!
He's easily one of the top 5 centre backs in the PL in my opinion. You can't blame some of us for being over excited, we haven't had a proper defender at the club for years most of us have forgotten what it's like to have someone reliable in defence!
And how many goals did Liverpool concede on the way to that final? Your attack got you to the final, not van Dijk.
Well done. You definitely reached the CL final because of your stunning defensive solidity, which led to conceding 6 goals over 2 legs against Roma, which should probably have been more had the referees done their job. I guess Dejan Lovren is also better because he also made it that far then? Are we judging players by their team achievements? Toby & Vert could easily have been a league winning duo, it just so happens Chelsea were also very strong defensively but also had a better team overall.
VVD is a very good defender, but he's not the reason you made the CL final, just another good component. Sticking any competent defender in your team would have made a difference. I don't even know where you're trying to go with this.. considering if you had drawn Juventus first game like we did, you would also probably have been knocked out in the first round. VVD playing in a team that had a good cup run does not make him a better defender than Toby or Vertonghen, both of whom formed statistically the best defence in the league in 16/17.
I've watched VVD and Toby enough to know that at their respective bests, both are similarly dominant. There's no 'different level', and neither have won anything for Spurs or Liverpool so you can't use that as a stick to beat Vert/Toby with.
Would I? If we didn't win it I'd rather not bother thanks, why would I give up anything to have lost the final? I'm sure it was a fantastic run n' all but you got swatted aside by Madrid in the final and they barely had to come out of third gear .. hardly something I imagine most of your fans remember fondly.
I'd give both my bollocks to win the CL or the PL, not get close, that's just painful .. or do you remember the Gerrard slip season fondly too?
Anyway, none of that has feck all to do with VVD supposedly having this different level to Toby/Vert, because he wasn't single handedly responsible for you getting there, just a massive improvement on your other options. Stick Toby at his best in your squad instead and he'd have made the same difference, you needed a quality centre back and you got one, nobody is denying he is a very good defender.
In the 2005 CL final against Liverpool AC Milan had a back 4 consisting of Cafu, Maldini, Stam, & Nesta. They only conceded 28 goals in 38 league games that season, but managed to concede 3 in 6 minutes against us in Istanbul. Why was that ? Perhaps it had something to do with them possibly switching off, & also us having nothing to lose so we just went shit or bust. You know, a bit like us leading 5-0 against Roma & them grabbing something of a lifeline for the 2nd leg where they went shit or bust. We were leading 2-1 at HT remember, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility we had our thoughts on the final. So that's hardly a slight on Van Dijk is it ? It's a collective team thing that can happen to the best.
You weren't great defensively throughout your CL campaign, except for the first leg against City, so it's slightly weird when somebody tries to argue that VVD has reached a 'different level' to Toby/Vert, purely because he was part of a team that got to the final. The Milan defenders you mentioned proved their class season after season, they weren't being hailed as the best in the world because of one cup run.
Van Djik is a very good defender, IMO one of the best in the league, most of your fans seem to be reasonable about that. Spouting nonsense about him reaching a totally different level to two of the league's best defenders, based on a relatively small sample size of games, is undeniably just hyperbole and getting carried away. Especially considering IIRC he was solid and calm for most of your CL campaign, but not really that exceptional. I've certainly seen far better defensive performances which are much more deserving of the hype.
It's OK to call an incredible player incredible. 'Arguably top 5'
You wouldn't want the chance to play in the biggest game in football and win the biggest trophy? Something that your club has never been involved in?
I remember the run very fondly. Nights like Roma and Man City will stay with me for a long time. That's what it's all about isn't it?
No player is singularly responsible for a football team doing anything. But VVD was pivotal against Roma/City away. Games where we had to avoid crumbling under pressure. A bit like Spurs did vs Juventus, at home. Vertonghen has been at Spurs for 6 years and has not at any point come close to winning a single thing, or even becoming noticed in the CL. Unremarkable is probably the best word to use.
We can go around in circles all day about this kind of stuff. I'm not one to unnecessarily hype players, but the eye test is the main thing which confirms my thoughts about VVD. The idea that you have to wait years before confirming a player is great is stupid, but by the end of the season it'll be widely accepted.
Sure I'd want the chance, but you lost didn't you? We're not talking about a 'chance' .. you got there and were soundly defeated. Well done. I'm sure the nights will be remembered fondly, but no I wouldn't give any of my body parts to lose a CL final.
I'm sure he was pivotal. Just like Toby and Vert were pivotal to being part of the best defence in the league, you're acting like he hasn't been fantastic and dominant like Van Djik has, which is plainly false. Alderweireld has had games where he's been incredible, but you're stating there is a level gap based on VVD playing 6 months with you and a couple of games against West Ham and Palace?
Against City in the second leg you should have been down 2-0 by half time, the referee saved you from crumbling. You did crumble against Roma away, with a number of decisions across both legs meaning you managed to scrape through. You absolutely crumbled in the CL final, where Karius got blamed despite the entire side going in to hiding when Salah came off. Stop acting like Liverpool are this titan of a side who haven't had dodgy moments under VVD, was he not in the team when you made Jay Rodriguez look like Ronaldo?
Yeah, Vertonghen is unremarkable because he has remained at Spurs, what a fantastic argument, well played. In that time he's been one of the best central defenders in the league, and had he played for a big move he likely would have got one and won trophies. He was the best CB in the league last season by most people's assessments, but you go ahead and judge him on zero trophies. Is Harry Kane unexceptional too if we don't win anything in the next few seasons? Eriksen a poor player? Moronic way to assess any individual, especially when VVD is 27 and has only ever won the Scottish League. Vertonghen was excellent against Madrid in the CL by the way, but was exposed by our fullbacks/Davinson being a bit green in the knockouts.
He's your own player, and you're blatantly biased, your 'eye test' means nothing to me. I've seen Alderweireld and Vert have games just as dominant as VVD, and both have been doing it for far longer than he has, and both have been part of some of the best defences in the league statistically, they've proven yourself. You're welcome to your opinion, but I'm also welcome to call it hyperbole and wrong, especially when you're talking about one of your players being on a different level to two defenders considered up there with the best in the league.
You find VVD only being 'arguably top 5' as laughable, I find your opinion laughable.
Only time we 'weren't great' as you put it, is the first half of the 2nd leg against City when they we were chasing a 3 goal deficit. The last 10 minutes of the Roma 1st leg when we were 5-0 up. & the 2nd half of the 2nd leg when we were 4 goals up on the Italians. You can accuse us of not keeping our focus as a team, but the defence played it's part by keeping a solid foundation in order for the attackers to do their thing. We were never behind, or chasing the game, in either of those 2 legged ties against City & Roma. Our attackers didn't have to pull us out of the shit the way they'd done in previous seasons. Let me also remind you that we kept 2 clean sheets against Porto, & not only did we do likewise against City in the 1st leg, but they didn't have a single shot on target all match. How many teams achieved that last season ?
Like I said in my earlier post, we need to show the defensive consistency that your team showed a couple of seasons back. Clean sheets need to be the norm rather than the exception. I accept there is still some way to go. However, we seem to be going in the right direction. But trying to use goals conceded in cup matches when we were well ahead, well, it just smacks of desperation imo
You conceded 6 goals in 2 games against Roma .. bottom line, you weren't great defensively. It doesn't matter if all the goals were conceded in 5 minutes, they were still conceded and you were put under unnecessary pressure by conceding goals. I'm not about to hail a defence as fantastic when they failed to do their job, which is to stop the opposition team scoring. Porto are trash and their first leg performance vs you was one of the worst I've ever seen in a CL knockout, an utter disgrace.
I already said your first leg performance was excellent defensively, IMO that was your only game in the CL where your defence was exceptional. You did fantastically well to keep them out (Although they did score, and it was wrongly chalked off .. just like another of their goals was wrongly chalked off 2nd leg) but that was just one game. I'm not hailing VVD as on a different level to Toby/Vert on that basis, and he wasn't good enough in any of the other games to earn that kind of praise either, he was just very solid.
I think you've massively improved defensively, and VVD is a significant part of that, I rate him highly and you're right that he's the kind of defender who provides a fantastic platform for the rest of the team. I just don't think he's a level above the other top defenders in the league, he's done nowhere near enough yet to prove that, and saying so will deservedly get stick.
It's not desperation to cite goals conceded in a cup match, when somebody is claiming VVD is amazeballs based on those very cup matches.
Liverpool fans getting wildly ahead of themselves?
It must be August
It must be August
Honestly, you don't need to write a dissertation every time you reply. Reads like someone who's really struggling to justify their point.
You seem keen to emphasise the fact we lost the CL final, but I'm talking about having the opportunity to even be in the final. It's something that would probably be the greatest achievement in your club's history, no? Why wouldn't you want to do that?
Vertonghen is unremarkable because he's had an unremarkable career. Gargling cnut Kane has been exceptional on an individual level to the extent that not many other players have. That sets him apart as an elite player.
The fact is that VVD has transformed LFC into CL contenders and (in the eyes of many) PL contenders. Vertonghen and Alderweireld continue to play for a decent, yet perennially unsuccessful football team who haven't challenged for any major (or minor) trophies in donkey's years.
You may consider my opinion on VVD to be 'hyperbole', but what certainly is that Tottenham are a completely mediocre football team in the grand scheme of things, and those two players have done nothing to change that.
No?
You're nothing but a boring troll, and I'm done. Nice to see you're all rattled and had to bring out the little digs at Spurs because I don't think VVD is the bestest defender in Premier League history.
He's fast become one of the most overrated players on Earth.
He's an example of a player perfect for a particular system and thus overrated.
What have I said about Spurs that isn't correct?
Absolutely nothing that is remotely relevant to Van Djik, Alderweireld or Vertonghen. You are nothing but a wind up merchant who has no argument so started resorting to petty digs, it's pointless.
It's also hilarious hearing it come from a Liverpool fan. Your last trophy came against Cardiff in the league cup, you're no more successful recently than we are, and one good cup run doesn't change that. Not that it's even remotely relevant because good players can play for unsuccessful sides, Bale was with us for six seasons and didn't win a single trophy, Eriksen has been here five.
Your attempts to turn this in to Spurs vs Liverpool are a really boring distraction from you making silly, giddy claims about your players.
We took a good laugh for him and his early days and ridiculous sum of money but tbh, can't think of another defender in the league better than him now.
Was he not fantastic at Southampton too, though?
I think you'll find that you were the one who turned this into a Spurs vs Liverpool argument, by continually mentioning our loss in the CL final.
And obviously when a Spurs fan mentions the CL, you have to mention their absolute lack of presence in the competition; that extends to their players of course. Rather than me attempting to wind you up, it's just a fact.
My argument/opinion is simply that VVD is a better player than the two you mentioned. Not my fault that makes you salty. Your original point was that VVD is being hyped based off two games, when he's already eclipsed what any Tottenham defender has done in the competition.