all i know is van dijk’s wife keeps begging varane to come over via text so she can feel a real centre back inside her.
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
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Vidic was quite good if I remeber well, also Zlatan came back in later years of his career when many said that will be the end of his career.
I think Vidic 2011 was better and that's the EPL alone
I think Klopp lifts players the most.
Look at the lineup that got Dortmund to the CL final
Pizceck Subotic Schmelzer Bender Blazyzkowski Grosskreutz Gotze. Look at those players which of them will be regarded as a tier 2 player. Look at their career post Klopp
Now even in Liverpool see Coutinho Wijnaldum Mane and almost everyone who has left Liverpool and how they look at the new clubs
Many Current Liverpool players looked like a very advanced version of whatever they ever showed anywhere in their career Robertson Trent Matip Salah Fabinho.
So VVD can't likely be the only exception to the Klopp game raisers especially when his displays for Holland haven't been close
It seems the injury affected his pace but it's like he doesn't realize it yet. Instead of adapting his game to his new pace he keeps playing with the same arrogance and it's often found out of position without the pace to save him now.
During his peak he was so good that the opposition didn't even challenge him most of the times. Maybe in his mind he's still at that level hence his cockines but players aren't afraid to face him anymore and it will only get worse as he ages.
During his peak he was so good that the opposition didn't even challenge him most of the times. Maybe in his mind he's still at that level hence his cockines but players aren't afraid to face him anymore and it will only get worse as he ages.
No way man, even close. VvD in 2019 was second in the Balon d'Or by a very thin margin (less than 10 points) competing with Messi. He was Premier League's best player, UEFA's best player, UEFA's best defender, MOTM in the final of UCL (see vidic in final of 2011), FIFPro World XI, team of The tournament from nations League, UCL Team of the Tournament, PFA team of The tournament, pfa player of The season. Vidic was just Barclays player of The season and FIFA team of the year. It's embarrassing to make this comparison.
Que Jorginho 2021 season greater than any season by any DM in the history of the game.
Like Jorginho is the best DM of all time given all the awards he won that season
Michael Owen won a Balon d'Or. The kinds of honours you mention mean nothing in these debates.
Again, I never said that VvD is the best centre-back in history. I just said he had the best year for a centre-back in this century. You are using the scarecrow fallacy.
Michael Owen there was no Messi or someone of the same level to compete. I'm comparing a centre-back's year with another centre-back. In this case, VvD 2019 with Vidic 2011. And VvD was clearly superior. Vidic was the best player in the Premier League and that was it. Thing that VvD too was. But he was also the best player in Europe, directly competing with Messi in one of his best years individually. Thing Vidic was not. Of course in career, Vidic is light years ahead of VvD. But specifically comparing VvD's 2019 year with Vidic's 2011, VvD was clearly superior and by a good margin
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But VVD didn’t top Messi did he? You can’t write off Owen’s award because it suits you while claiming similar awards (or runners up awards) are de facto proof for VVD.
There is no evidence or “proving” anything when it comes to these debates, it’s a matter of opinion and yours is seemingly in the minority on here.
You're one of those who reckons Gerrard was much better than Scholes because he was in the team of the season way more aren't you.
Sort of agree with you, but you can't dismiss Owen as some sort of chump. He was a real force of nature when he first emerged.
He was, but you wouldn't class him as one of the greatest forwards of the last 20 years based solely on the logic that he won a Balon d'Or.
Of course my opinion is in the minority here, this is a United forum. It's hard for a United fan (and I'm a United fan) to admit that their best defender's best season this century was far below the best season of the defender of his biggest rival.
I think Gerrard was better than Scholes but it's not the number of times he was in the team of the season (although that shows longevity). Gerrard is my 1st pick based on all-round capabilities and best form. Although maybe if Scholes had combined the best of his goalscoring form and best of his playmaking form at any particular time I might've changed that around
But Gerrard didn't combine playmaking and goalscoring? Even Gerrard's biggest fans wouldn't try and say he was a midfielder capable of dictating the tempo of the game.
At this point, you are an absolute troll. Gerrard and playmaking are not words you associate with each other. Your posting can feck off.
You're swinging your opinion around as if its a fact, talking about people having to prove you wrong and not being willing to admit you're right. That's not how opinions work, chief.
He was at his best as an AM ahead of the main midfield players, even though he arguably could be better as a box to box player or anchor midfielder too
You do not know how to read? I said "IF SCHOLES HAD COMBINED HIS BEST FORM IN GOALSCORING AND IN PLAYMAKING, I WOULD PREFER SCHOLES". Because Scholes' best form of goalscoring was in a different period of his best in playmaking. This is all about Scholes, not Gerrard.
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Some 24 year old who can't even properly remember half of the preceeding 22-23 years telling us with absolute authority that the guy he remembers is better than any of the guys he doesn't remember.
The overrating of this bloke will end up ruining his legacy. The ridiculous hyperbole is meme material at this point.
Sure you are entitled to your opinion, but Gerrard wasn't even the best playmaker at his own club.
Or your opinion is simply wrong in the eyes of the majority on here. It's hard for posters to admit such things, though.
Jorginho didn’t even finish in PL team of the year that season, not the same comparison.
But that simply isn't the case. One can decide for oneself if one thinks VVD's best season was better than whoever else's, but there's no rational basis for claiming any such thing as "far below." That's absolute nonsense. If VVD's one wonder-season was better at all than the best of Vidic, Rio or whoever else, it's by a tiny amount, and really just a single season held up against players who had numerous seasons that were, at the very worst, marginally less impressive.
VVD has been very good, but by no conceivable stretch of the imagination has he been "far better" than the best defenders of the fecking century. Christ almighty. That's some amazing rewriting of history. He has had the good fortune to peak during a time when there were hardly any other great CBs in the league, and that's really all there is to it. He might belong in the same category as the likes of Vidic, Rio, Kompany and Terry, but probably not at the top of it, especially if we take into the account the fact that he was only at that level for a year or two followed by a massive nosedive who no apparent end in sight.
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He was in the CL squad of the season UEFA squad of the season and FIFA teams of the year in addition to UEFA men's player of the year which no DM has ever won before
Can we say Jorginho has the best year for a DM in this century and draw similar conclusions from it in a Jorginho vs any DM e.g Makelele Kante Keane Viera, Casemiro etc like you are doing for VVD vs Vidic
Liverpool will always be over rated because the media is full of scouse and ex players. It won’t change until the demographic changes and I don’t see that ever happening. Benitez’s Liverpool were grouped in as a “top 4” side despite their league performances never matching that title. Oh and Lawrensen predicted a 159 (4.1 seasons) game unbeaten run for Liverpool with the BBC never seemingly questioning his reasoning, so much for unbiased.
In terms of VVD. He had a great couple of seasons and technically he is a very good player. But there’s no way he is even in an all time prem 11. Rio and Vidic were complimentary of each others skills sets and very dominating over a long period of time. Terry and Carvalho have the best defensive record in a 38 game season that probably won’t ever be beaten and individually Terry scored the most goals for a defender (not including penalties). Could also ping an accurate long ball with his left foot.
I don’t see him even coming close to matching any 4 of these guys. Not as a unit and not as an individual.
I find it odd that you tried to sneak that one in. Unless you think there's a genuine comparison to be made between Vidic facing one of the greatest club sides of all time featuring peak Messi and Van Dijk facing Tottenham, then why bother mentioning it?
It isn't apples and apples. Jorginho is more a deep-lying playmaker than a pure #6 like Makelele, Vieira, Casemiro that you mentioned. I think the competition would be with Xabi Alonso and Pirlo. Jorginho was neither Italy's best player in the Euro (it was Donnaruma), nor Chelsea's best player in the UCL (it was Kanté). Mount was chosen by the Chelsea fans as the team's best player of the year. VvD in 2019 was the best CB I've seen play. He actually played enough to be compared to the best season by any CB this century. It's not the same with Jorginho. Jorginho 2021 isn't even close to Pirlo 2006 or 2012 for exemple. Xabi Alonso 2012 was way better than Jorginho 2021, Schweinsteiger 2013 was way better too. I don't just base it on the individual awards but also on the player's performance level.
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So @Isafim is one more Liverpool fan who is too embarrassed to put Liverpool in support field.
No way, mate. I'm a United fan. But I know how to recognize the talent of a player who is not on the team I support. If I were a fanatic, my all-time Premier League XI would have all United players.
That's just myopic. Lucas Moura has had a better than peak than Messi. I base entirely on the 2nd half 45 min display against Ajax in the semis that year. VVD prevented Moura from scoring in the finals and that automatically qualifies him as a better player than anyone else who has ever played football. I'm also a 5 year old at the time of writing this, mentally at least.
VVD was better than Carvahlo, Terry and Carvahlo had the best defensive record but also played in a very defensive team, not a team operating a high line and with 2 all time great DMs in front of them.
VVD has every quality Carvahlo had plus way more pace and athleticism.
He had a very good season in Europe but still didn’t make PFA team of the year, I don’t understand your point, you just mentioned Sammer as someone who had a couple all time great seasons as a CB despite having a peak for around 5 years, VVD is more comparable to him, not Jorginho.
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Liverpool fan
United fan.
Says VVD is better than Vidić was, Gerrard was better than Scholes.
Sounds legit.
Says VVD is better than Vidić was, Gerrard was better than Scholes.
Sounds legit.
100%
No you're not
Van Dijk is great but I think the urge to anoint him as the greatest this and that is a bit much. He arrived fairly late to the 'great' party and he seems to be tapering off a bit as per the normal age range. His achievements and longevity of top level performances don't quite stack up for me. First it was greatest defender ever. Then it became greatest season ever by a defender. Soon it'll be greatest individual defensive performance in the 2nd half at Brighton, ever.
Calm down. He's a brilliant CB and that's an achievement in itself but for me I'd have him in tier 2 of the ones I've seen.
Calm down. He's a brilliant CB and that's an achievement in itself but for me I'd have him in tier 2 of the ones I've seen.