Virgil van Dijk | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
What the holy feck
Even scousers all admit he’s been a shadow of himself since October 2020 (the injury) so what the feck have you been smoking? Neutral football fans know he was in poor form even before the injury.
So at best it’s 2018-2020. Something Yorke’s 18 goal & then 20 goal PL seasons clearly match. With 2 league titles, and a CL title including a treble.
How the feck you can have the gall to claim he matches Cantona’s incredible 1991-1997.
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Some ridiculous claims in this thread. My grandmother could have made that tackle, and she's 98 and in a wheelchair.
Does Van Dijk pay you for these kind of nonsensical posts? He was already injured for almost a year in 20-21 and again 22-23 is still going on and he was been absolutely bad. His form was already dipping post the title winning season before his injury.Smart move by Klopp taking him out of the spotlight for a while
Is he not Liverpool fan? I'm sure I see him in all Liverpool related threads defending the club and players, past and present.
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He just won a World Cup.
Whether VVD was the greatest of all time is quite immaterial if he's a present day liability, which he definitely is. I'd pair him with Maguire just for the laughs. This time off will do him good. Can still reinvent himself, but in a slower league.
Strange thread.
What the holy feck
Even scousers all admit he’s been a shadow of himself since October 2020 (the injury) so what the feck have you been smoking? Neutral football fans know he was in poor form even before the injury.
So at best it’s 2018-2020. Something Yorke’s 18 goal & then 20 goal PL seasons clearly match. With 2 league titles, and a CL title including a treble.
How the feck you can have the gall to claim he matches Cantona’s incredible 1991-1997.
He’s a been a shadow of his high standards but still better than every other Cb, Liverpool just were competing for four trophies had a 90+ point season and went to another Cl final just last season, team of the year and CL team of the year, to say he’s form has been dipping since injury still doesn’t mean he hasn’t been operating at a better level than most cbs till this season.
get outMost top teams compete for 4 trophies. In reality you were nowhere fecking near anything other than the league and mickey mouse league cup.
You won one meh trophy.
Yeh I’m pretty sure Maguire cost similar and was wanted by city too so they say.
What was our reason getting Harry then….did he have the second highest peak after VVD based on your logic of transfer fee and clubs interested?
Most top teams compete for 4 trophies. In reality you were nowhere fecking near anything other than the league and mickey mouse league cup.
You won one meh trophy.
Why did you cut the post in half? Have a breather mate and read carefully what you are saying, I’m not your enemy. Liverpool were only close to the league cup and league but actually won the Fa Cup also and went to the Final of the Champions League. VVD is a shadow of his himself but still finished in PFA team of the year and CL team of the year, this is last season.
If you’re not able to argue reasonably there’s no point in continuing the conversation there’s nothing I’m saying that’s at all outlandish, neither is me saying my when all said and done VVD will be regarded in a higher standing than Yorke and Phillips, and much closer to Cantona Stam and so on, anyone who’s arguing the opposite is actually the one who would look outlandish let’s say 5 years from now when we’re able to look back.
Maguire was a bad transfer but looked decent at Leicester, Maguire would be world class if he had top level pace, Maguire doesn’t VVD does. I’m not saying you can go on fees alone but he obviously was highly rated if he is being chased by the calibre of teams he was being chased by at those figures, either way VVD justified his fee and Maguire didn’t.
I don’t actually see what is wrong with what I’m saying outside of this forum in football circles I think it’s pretty rational to say a CB who won a PFA Player of the year been in 3 team of the years and finished 2nd to Messi in Ballon dor in voting had one of the highest peaks(2/3 years) that a Cb has had in the last 20 or so years.
There’s nothing outlandish or laughable about this statement at all, in fact Rio himself said he’s a top 5 PL cb who would stand out in any era, if the conversation is longevity and career then of course there are a few CBs who have that over him, just like there are attacking midfielders who have longer peaks than Ronaldinho...
It depends what we’re arguing.
Van Dijk or no Van Dijk
If Liverpool's attack and porous midfield continue as they are, their high defensive backline will forever be vulnerable.
If Liverpool's attack and porous midfield continue as they are, their high defensive backline will forever be vulnerable.
Most top teams compete for 4 trophies. In reality you were nowhere fecking near anything other than the league and mickey mouse league cup.
You won one meh trophy.
We all dislike Liverpool, but this has to be the most astoundingly idiotic logic ever seen on the cafe
Who is this Phillips you're mentioning?
Kevin Phillips?
Nat Phillips?
Agreed he's much better than both
We all dislike Liverpool, but this has to be the most astoundingly idiotic logic ever seen on the cafe
Yeah a Champions League final and 30 minutes from winning the league is ‘nowhere near’.
Plus ignoring the FA cup win completely from his spiel.
Wasn't that the season they got pasted 7-2 by Aston Villa before his injury next game
Boateng Sammer Jurgen Kohler
No.
Boateng won a World cup and 2 triple as starter. His peak wasn't as high as VVD peak and obviously Messi killed him but due to his longevity on a world class level i would say Boateng > VVD
I suppose there's an argument for him, but seeing his name there alongside genuine legends of the game is incredibly galling. He really wasn't that good.
But the list doesn't only contain players on the same level, there are even Hummels and Carragher (who are certainly not better than VVD btw.).
He was that good and played the high line consistently at a high level all his career. His world cup final performance is one for the ages plus being an integral part of the great Bayern and Germany decade from 2010 to 2020
He maintained a higher level for way longer than VVD had
Who is this Phillips you're mentioning?
Kevin Phillips?
Nat Phillips?
Agreed he's much better than both
Not saying much the best Phillips is Kalvin.
Incidentally Sammer’s peak was just as short as VVD‘s.
Agree in terms of peaks though Silva VVD and early Varane were probably the most complete defenders of this generation, in terms of ball playing ability defending and aerial ability, I would feel to put Ramos there but I think he lacked the cool head the other three did and was also slower in pace.
Ramos deserves to be up there, he was superb in their cl sweep and that's a larger span that anything VVD managed (only 2 seasons at the very top).
He was able to lead Germany to the Euros and unfancied Dortmund to the CL. In that stint he was named Bundesliga player of the year twice. Best player at the Euro 96 and 1996 Balon dor
No Lucio and Varane? How about Tony Adams/Sol Campbell? Carvalho/Pepe? Ivan Cordoba? The competition is hard though
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VVD from 2018-2020 was definitely up there with any defender I've ever seen but like others say, the true test was doing that for a much longer period of time.
While he is a fantastic player, the Klopp effect needs to be factored into this. He gets players reaching their absolute peak where they become shit hot, the real test is if they prove to be a Lewandowski or a Hummels. Don't get me wrong Hummels is fantastic but from 2012-2014 he looked like Beckenbauer reborn. Unlike Lewa he didn't quite sustain that high level and that's where I'm at with VVD.
For a player that only became relevant in a conversation with the greats at 26 he definitely needed many more years on his resume. Ramos, Godin, Varane, Pepe, Chiellini, Thiago Silva were the top CBs in his era that maintained their excellence much longer than he has. They have a full decade of being top class centre backs.
While he is a fantastic player, the Klopp effect needs to be factored into this. He gets players reaching their absolute peak where they become shit hot, the real test is if they prove to be a Lewandowski or a Hummels. Don't get me wrong Hummels is fantastic but from 2012-2014 he looked like Beckenbauer reborn. Unlike Lewa he didn't quite sustain that high level and that's where I'm at with VVD.
For a player that only became relevant in a conversation with the greats at 26 he definitely needed many more years on his resume. Ramos, Godin, Varane, Pepe, Chiellini, Thiago Silva were the top CBs in his era that maintained their excellence much longer than he has. They have a full decade of being top class centre backs.
Can’t the managerial impact argument be made for most players? If John Terry had played for Chelsea without all the investment and managerial influence that followed Abramovic’s arrival, would he be considered as one of the best CB’s of the premier league era?
Would Ferdinand and Vidic be regarded so highly if they’d not spent their best years playing under Ferguson?
City could field the same players with a different manager and be a worse side without Pep.
I agree that Van Dijk’s peak is limited to a maximum of three full seasons at Liverpool (I’m including last season in that). There aren’t many that have helped transform a side like Van Dijk has though. Defensively he transformed Klopp’s Liverpool. I don’t think we could’ve won the Champions League in 2019 or the league in 2020 without him.
He loses on longevity but should get points for impact when compared to his peers.
It is clear that in his career he does not even compare to the other great defenders (even because he's only been at Liverpool for 5 seasons and got injured in one of them). My point from the beginning was that he had the best year for a centre-back in this century. And so far no one has proven otherwise. Everyone talked about the longevity of defenders but absolutely no one came to tell me "that centre-back had a better year than VvD in 2019 in this century". So the point remains.
Yes that should be considered for other players too but a player like Terry was still amazing after the Mourinho 1.0 era. He played under different managers with different styles and other than under AVB he maintained his level when fit. Rio had a portfolio dating back to his Leeds years and Vidic proved he didn't need Rio as his best period came where Rio was often injured and he was partnered with Jonny Evans.
All of those players had the teams that were unreal but even during rebuilds or periods where the teams weren't as dominant they didn't have a regression the way VVD has.
You're right he definitely wins points for impact and peak but longevity is what the best of all time usually have. Another Dutchman in Wesley Sneijder had a ridiculously high peak and impact but won't be in any conversations with Iniesta as he just couldn't maintain it long enough.
Van Dijk is 31, he won’t be Thiago Silva or Pepe’s age until about 2030. We will see how he adapts to losing a bit of pace. He might well star in a CL final or Euros/World Cup yet. Most of the players you mentioned had their best moments in their 30s.
If you’re going to talk about the Klopp effect Liverpool’s issue is the midfield more than anything and it’s exposing their defenders time and again. Bit like Varane before Casemiro arrived. They weren’t strong defensively last night without Van Dijk. They’ve lost 6 out of 18 games at home without Van Dijk, 1 out of 70 with him.
Has any player come back to their very best form after a ACL injury?
Maldini was a legendary left back than a CB.
Koeman isnt in the list. Nor is Hierro, Thuram, Desailly, aldair, hansen, gentile. They should be.
Ruud got better