Arguably but physically he was off, last season was a good season for him but you could tell he wasn’t in his prime physically anymore. Remember before Liverpool lost him and then Gomez Matip they were near top of the league that season, and also contending for the league with 90+ points the season before.
Virgil van Dijk | Performances
- Thread starter Samid
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Arguably but physically he was off, last season was a good season for him but you could tell he wasn’t in his prime physically anymore. Remember before Liverpool lost him and then Gomez Matip they were near top of the league that season, and also contending for the league with 90+ points the season before.
They had a couple of good months after his injury and then they started to lose the other defenders which made things quite bad for a while. The season they won the league is the one where VVD's level wasn't as good as before in the 2nd half of the season.
Depends on your perspective, I think equally you could argue he made everyone else’s job easier by being so dominant at the back - full backs could get forward, midfielders could rely on him to also create with long passes and take more risks as he would be safe to cover. Of course Alisson is a great keeper but for example when Cannavaro won the Ballon d’Or in second place was Buffon who was even better than Alisson and Cannavaro wouldn’t have got near that award if he hadn’t saved from Zidane in extra time, such is how awards go.
Anyway you’re right putting him in the top 25 isn’t a disservice, I think it’s obvious who the best centre backs ever are, then there’s a large group where you could make an argument either way here or there and it’d be hard to definitively prove either way. I got drawn into this debate originally because people were mocking a poster saying in 2019 Van Dijk was one of the best defenders this century for a single year, which was quite a reasonable opinion to be jumped on. But United forum I suppose.
Now to wash myself off after defending a Liverpool player for 3 pages.
The only thing van Dijk was ever the best at was simultaneously having four different hairstyles.
1 - At no time did I sayd that he has the highest peak in history. I said he had the best year for a centre-back in this century.
2 - VvD was'nt shite before or after 2019. He already showed a high level at Celtic, then at Southampton, no wonder Liverpool spent 80M on him. After 2019, in 19/20 he maintained the level of the previous season until he got injured.
3 - I think what caught my attention the most is his ability to disarm without being fouled. Off the ball movement, tactical awareness, anticipation, long ball, etc... About the records, he stayed the whole year without being dribbled.
If you think my statement is so ridiculous, then it's simple, just name a year when some other centre-back was better than him in that century.
About Cannavaro, he wasn't even Italy's best player in the 2006 world cup. Pirlo was considerably better. The truth is that voters wanted to reward Italy's very efficient defensive system who won the cup that way. And they chose Cannavaro as their representative, but it could be Buffon. VvD competed with Messi and was just a few points away from winning the Ballon d'Or (2 points if I'm not mistaken).
Vidic in 08/09 had an excellent season. One of the best in the century. But he was better accompanied than VvD (Ferdinand x Matip). Not to mention that it's easier to defend on a defensive minded team than on a high pressure team.
I've seen a lot of Full games from The best players from The past over the years and I can form an educated opinion on this one. I'm sure you didn't see Di Stefano playing live at his peak and despite that, you consider Messi superior. The Ad hominem attack is usually used when the debater has no arguments. "I'm going to focus on his age since I don't know any defender in that century who had a better year than VvD in 2019"
You are on the defensive for no reason. The poster is right though. I also didn’t know you are 24 otherwise I wouldn’t have debated as much. You may have seen past full matches but it never ever tells the full story. Watching past matches without living in that time without the feel of the player and the occasion is completely different moreso for the defenders I would argue. I was surprised your rating for Van dijk ahead of others. If you had seen the likes of Thuram, Nesta, Rio you would have known the aura of those defenders. Personally, I have never seen anyone better than Alessandro Nesta as a central defender and Van dijk doesn’t come close to him peak or not.
Can’t believe what I’m reading here, best peak this century, fecking hell.
Ramos, Varane, Rio, Vidic, Silva, hell even Pique must be pissing their pants with laughter.
VVD was certainly the one who’s extremely short peak coincided with the social media boom in football mind. An era where players are either hyped to holy hell (VVD), or turned into memes to be bullied on a daily basis (Nunez).
Ramos, Varane, Rio, Vidic, Silva, hell even Pique must be pissing their pants with laughter.
VVD was certainly the one who’s extremely short peak coincided with the social media boom in football mind. An era where players are either hyped to holy hell (VVD), or turned into memes to be bullied on a daily basis (Nunez).
Do these records even exist for the likes of Nesta? Where can I find them because I swear both Nesta & Maldini went about half a decade without being dribbled.
Would love to see Rio’s stats also.
Social media went wild on this one though, so I’ve often wondered if it’s such an amazing stat after all and how some other greats stack up in the “not being dribbled past” records. My guess is, no-one even bothered to keep track of such things pre 2010.
In 2020, Victor fecking Lindelöf went about 30 games without being ”dribbled”, which leads me to think the overhyping of the stat for VVD was just another load of viral nonsense that lead many to believe it was something it aint.
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Van Dijk came to prominence at a time where there wasn't exactly a wealth of great defenders, and he played in a very disciplined team behind three ball-winning work-horses. The former means he stands out, the latter means he had better working conditions than most.
A defensive minded team in which he had no defensive players ahead of him, as opposed to van Dijk playing behind notable attacking players such as Milner, Henderson, Keita, Wijnaldum and Fabinho?
Honestly, outside of looking like he could play in Tarzan, I don't see what's so special about him.
Why would Rio be pissing himself laughing when he’s said several times that Van Dijk is the best defender in the world and Kompany said he was one of the best defenders of all-time?
And an assortment of Europe’s best journalists decided he was the second best player in the world in 2019, he got 679 points losing to Messi in one of the closest award results ever by fewer than 10 votes, and the second best performance by a defender in the Ballon d’Or after Cannavaro in 2006 (who won on a weaker year without Messi). Then he won PFA player of the year in England voted by his fellow professionals, voted Premier League Player of the Year. UEFA Player of the Year (only defender to win award), Champions League defender of the Season.
yet he’s not in the conversation for best peak for you?
feck no, he had a great great season. I don’t even consider that a “peak” long enough to consider.
Likewise I don’t consider Kevin Phillips peak to be in the conversation for best CF peaks in the Premier League, nor even Dwight Yorke for that matter.
His peak reminds me very much of Dwight Yorke in fact, he was playing for a side that was so full of confidence, and every player was simply purring that season. Liverpool were absolutely sublime & you could have picked four or five players worthy of being called the best in the world in their position that season (Trent, VvD, Robinson, Allison, Mane, Salah).
Maintaining peak through trickier periods for your team is what really should be considered greatness, something VvD and Yorke both failed to do.
I really do think claiming VvD’s peak was the best of the century is as daft as claiming Yorke’s peak was as good as Cantona or Henry or that Trent’s was as good as D Alves.
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Yeah but when he gets going he runs in slowmotion, player with a ball on his feet it still faster. He kind of lost both from accelerstion and top speed, hard to compesate both skills with something else.
Wasn't dribbled past is another term for losing tackle. VVD barely attempts to tackle, so his tackle loss record will be always low. . There were clips posted back then when players went past VvD but since he didn't attempt to tackle it wasn't counted as tackle post/dribbled past.
Would also explain why Mr don’t commit Victor Lindelöf also had such a long spell of not being “dribbled”.
Exactly, IMO the stat is of not of much use.
The revisionism here is absolutely bonkers. Van Dijk played in the infamous 7-2 loss to Villa before his injury and was culpable for a few of the goals, as he was in the 3-0 loss to Watford right before lockdown in 2020. Giroud dominates him every time they face off (club and country) too, for example.
There was also a period in the last twelve months where he was at fault for numerous goals against and big chances conceded (Fulham away, Napoli away, United away).
Posters claiming the injuries are causing this dip haven’t been paying attention.
There was also a period in the last twelve months where he was at fault for numerous goals against and big chances conceded (Fulham away, Napoli away, United away).
Posters claiming the injuries are causing this dip haven’t been paying attention.
I know a couple of Liverpool fans who regularly attend games, one of them reckons since Pickford took him out he can only really turn one way comfortably. Which is why he's picking up strange positions and is getting overexposed now with that legless midfield in front on him.
VVD peak started from 2017 and went to about 2022-23, his peak was as long as Stam, I’m 2016 he was already the best Cb in the league also hence he’s fee.
How long was Dwight Yorke at his best for, he had one great season at United and one good one, before that a couple good seasons at Villa. VVD has actually been playing at a top level nearly as long as Cantona from Leeds to United 91-97 compared to 2018-2023, in that period he has already got to 2nd ballon d’or compared to Cantonas 3rd place, and three team of the years compared to Cantonas one, he isn’t comparable to Yorke at all.
Scousers gonna scouse, innit?
Cannavaro never won the Champions League.
I mean this is just silly now.
I seem to recall his fee raising eyebrows at the time. In hindsight it was worth the money, but I certainly don’t remember him being proclaimed the best CB in the league or 80m being deemed a good fee.
Seems to be in terrible form, do we think he is over the hill? It was pretty jarring to see him completely done for pace. I think it was Mbuemo, albeit he's pretty quick, but VVD almost looked Maguire-esque. If that is where his legs are at, he's going to have to adjust his game, but the problem is within Liverpool's system it is always going to shine a spotlight on any struggling defender.
Even actual Liverpool fans don't believe this.
His fee was so high because he happily signed a 6 year deal Saints gave him after a positive first year after signing.
Then Liverpool made an illegitimate approach for him and he handed in a transfer request in summer of 2017, before they finally offered enough for Southampton to accept.
He was obviously a good player who was better than Southampton with the potential to go places, but he wasn't the best in the league in 2016. Alderweireld stemming from his days at Saints (and was effectively replaced by Van Dijk following the Spurs move) was arguably the top dog.
You’re saying Giroud yet he was outstanding against Haaland this season and Haaland considers him the toughest he played.
He has only lost once at Anfield in 72 games, Liverpool have lost 6 in 18 at home without him. Example of his pace before the injury, he’s just not moving like that at the moment.
Not really people just like to approach players of yesteryear with youthful nostalgia, we forget about all that was wrong about said players the moments and games they had that were bad and prop them up to be infallible remembered solely on the memories that made us adore them.
Stam was only at United for 3 years, less than VVD has been at Liverpool, he then spent another 6 years between Lazio and Milan but if my memories serve me right was never quite at his 98-99 peak, all in all you’ll probably find that even in peak years there’s probably a year or two at that in Stams favour, people seem to be acting as a players peak is supposed to last for 10 years, it didn’t for Stam . It’s normally 5-6 years at a very high level before some type of drop off.
A Player doesn’t cost 75 m and is chased by Chelsea City and Liverpool for no reason, at Southampton he was already one of the best CBS in the league, would say within the top 3 easily, he was already in Whoscored team of the year the season before he went to Liverpool, and every single analytic or data guy you could bump into at that moment was going crazy about him, I’ll try post some articles of that time.
And on second thought I would agree with Alderweireld being the best at that time, I would then say VVD and Vertonghen would round up the top 3.
Yeah the 'not being dribbled past' stat was a total myth. I remember watching Sane dribble past him at Anfield so Van Dijk fouled him and gave away a penalty (late 2018 when Mahrez missed the last minute penalty). And that was in the middle of his so-called 'not being dribbled past' run.
I remember bringing that up to my Liverpool supporting mate and his response was "well the stat is still valid because Van Dijk fouled him before he had completed the dribbled past him". Not really much of an impressive feat then if you have to foul players to keep the record intact.
I clearly said " no offence meant " and raised a fair point as mentioned by posters on the same page. Your response speaks volumes about your maturity but you are only 24 so it's understandable.
My post wasn't even that deep and I'm glad I've not wasted as much time as others debating with someone one claims to have watched several full 90 minute games for the multiple CB's listed during the last few pages. In addition, you'd then need to watch between 5-10 full matches perhaps for each CB to make fair judgement on them.
Feel free to list all these full games you have watched from yester year...
I mean, Messi is the official GOAT now right whether you've seen him or anyone else play. Probably not the best example to use plus I'm not the one who started this whole VVD peak talk. In fact I've not compared any peak's, I've not even disagreed with you and it's subjective too. I simply asked if you were 24 and therefore how has one seen so much evidence from players you wouldn't have seen the careers to then say when they hit they're peak during that career and if it compares to VVD's peak.
Happy Friday Isafim
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That's bonkers. Did you see him play at all in 2022 or the few games he's played in 2023?
Plus we're 6 days into 2023
Injured and out for over a month.
Just when it couldn’t get any worse for Liverpool. It done did.
Just when it couldn’t get any worse for Liverpool. It done did.
That’s your example of his pace? Outpacing a player who is virtually stationary and battling with another player?
Might be a blessing in disguise considering his current level
I think we have uncovered a few covert Liverpool fans in this thread
He starts from the other box and wins with a clean tackle on the halfway line? This one then maybe?
Top 4 could be decided by who stays the most fit