Viktor Gyökeres - Sporting Striker

[spwd]

£50 million and Anthony would be nice.

 

[Godfather]

£50 million and Anthony would be nice.

Or Zirkzee

 

[spwd]

Or Zirkzee

I'd sooner get rid of Anthony. Do we know how much JZ is on pw?

 

[Grand Vizier]

Gyokeres isn't going to tear it up here if we have Garnacho and Rashford on the wings. We don't supply the striker with enough chances for him to score that many goals. We need to get new wingers (we need at least one, anyway) or Amorim will have to change how Garnacho and Rashford plays, which would also take away some of their strengths, but in the long run it will benefit them, and us.

 

[MaMa given red]

Another brace tonight, he surely has to be a target for us in January if Amorim is coming

I don't think there will be much money to spend in January, will probably have to wait until next summer.

 

[sullydnl]

How Gyokeres performed against his xG over the last few seasons.

19/20 St Pauli: +0.7
20/21 Swansea: -0.6
20/21 Coventry: +1.0
21/22 Coventry: -2.2
22/23 Coventry: +1.5
23/24 Sporting: +6.8
24/25 Sporting (so far): +2.3

This suggests one of two things: either he's a previously average finisher who magically turned into an absolutely fantastic finisher at the age of 25, or he's a previously average finisher having what will likely be a career-peak finishing hot streak.

And of those two possibilities, the latter is historically far more likely than the former.

That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player, or that people would be wrong to want us to sign him, or that he wouldn't still score a lot of goals. Even if he returned at an average rate it would still be around 39 goals in his time there, which is extremely good.

But I see a lot of people super-keen on the idea of our new manager buying one of his former players in what would be a big money purchase. Something they definitely had qualms about our prior manager doing, and something we generally want to happen less often under a less manager-centred recruitment structure.

So it's worth pausing to note that whoever buys Gyokeres can in no way expect him to keep finishing like he has been, and should actively factor in that his finishing will regress.

 

[FriedClams]

How Gyokeres performed against his xG over the last few seasons.

19/20 St Pauli: +0.7
20/21 Swansea: -0.6
20/21 Coventry: +1.0
21/22 Coventry: -2.2
22/23 Coventry: +1.5
23/24 Sporting: +6.8
24/25 Sporting (so far): +2.3

This suggests one of two things: either he's a previously average finisher who magically turned into an absolutely fantastic finisher at the age of 25, or he's a previously average finisher having what will likely be a career-peak finishing hot streak.

And of those two possibilities, the latter is historically far more likely than the former.

That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player, or that people would be wrong to want us to sign him, or that he wouldn't still score a lot of goals. Even if he returned at an average rate it would still be around 39 goals in his time there, which is extremely good.

But I see a lot of people super-keen on the idea of our new manager buying one of his former players in what would be a big money purchase. Something they definitely had qualms about our prior manager doing, and something we generally want to happen less often under a less manager-centred recruitment structure.

So it's worth pausing to note that whoever buys Gyokeres can in no way expect him to keep finishing like he has been, and should actively factor in that his finishing will regress.

Or spent countless hours on the training ground.

 

[sullydnl]

Or spent countless hours on the training ground.

Except countless footballers also spend countless hours on the training ground. And very few of them suddenly turn into Haaland-like finishers in their mid 20's. Certainly much, much, much fewer than have season(s) where they happen to run hot before regressing again.

 

[Nickosaur]

Except countless footballers also spend countless hours on the training ground. And very few of them suddenly turn into Haaland-like finishers in their mid 20's. Certainly much, much, much fewer than have season(s) where they happen to run hot before regressing again.

He also might be in a system that works really well for him. A system we will soon be playing.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

There's a part of me that doesn't want him.

He is obviously in excellent peak form but he has played in England before.

I think Amorim possibly got the best out of him and I think he can do this with Hojlund. His game doesn't look too different than Hojlund's except maybe some link up play. I also don't like how many of Gyokeres's goals are penalties.

I feel like Arsenal need him to replace Gabriel Jesus more than we need to provide competition for Hojlund because it would mean that Gyokeres is either not droppable due to him being great or if he doesn't kick on then Hojlund would be back to being our starting striker.

I'd honestly prefer Sesko, Osihmen who was once the 2nd best striker in the world in the Serie A or even Jhon Duran.

I feel those 3 would properly compete with Hojlund but providing something different aswell.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Sporting will refuse to sell him in January (unless his €100 million release clause hs met and it's out of their hands), but are happy to sell him for €60-70 million next summer and have told him that right? That seems reasonable enough to me

If they have a good shot of their much coveted first successful league title defence for 70 odd years (both Benfica and Porto have had 13 successful league title defences since then) and are still involved in the Champions League (hopefully Amorim's departure doesn't massively destablise them and ruin their season), they can't be losing him in January. 2 full seasons at Sporting before moving on, seems appropriate.

 

[tenpoless]

Get Gyrocopter on the helicopter. Swoi swoi swoi swoi on the way to Manchester.
30 goals a season striker. Feck the haters. We need all them strikers for 'survival of the fittest' kind of thing.

 

[giorno]

I feel like Arsenal need him to replace Gabriel Jesus more than we need to provide competition for Hojlund because it would mean that Gyokeres is either not droppable due to him being great or if he doesn't kick on then Hojlund would be back to being our starting striker.

I feel like he's the sort of player they might sign only to discover he's not better than Gabriel Jesus and worse than Havertz

 

[ForeverRed1]

We not in with a shout if we get their coach?

 

[PieCrust]

Gyokeres isn't going to tear it up here if we have Garnacho and Rashford on the wings. We don't supply the striker with enough chances for him to score that many goals. We need to get new wingers (we need at least one, anyway) or Amorim will have to change how Garnacho and Rashford plays, which would also take away some of their strengths, but in the long run it will benefit them, and us.

Rashford doesn't really fit into his Amorim's tactics. He doesn't work hard enough in the press to be part of the forward line, and I'm not sure his ego will let him play as a wing back which is where a lot of the service comes from in his system. Unless he reinvents his game, Rashford may not be part of United's plans moving forward.

I think Garnacho could be a creative type wing back in the set up as well as one of the 2 inside forwards as he has the work rate. Amorim likes wingers at the wing back position, and doesn't expect them to defend all that much but they do have discipline to the back line when the opponent is in their attacking third. Amad could be another more attacking option at wing back. Think Dalot will be 1 for sure, but the 2nd is up in the air.

 

[Cassidy]

Gyokeres isn't going to tear it up here if we have Garnacho and Rashford on the wings. We don't supply the striker with enough chances for him to score that many goals. We need to get new wingers (we need at least one, anyway) or Amorim will have to change how Garnacho and Rashford plays, which would also take away some of their strengths, but in the long run it will benefit them, and us.

Gyokeres creates as much as he scores by the way, Rashford this season has created quite a lot for the likes of Zirkzee to fluff his lines. We also have Bruno Fernandes, Eriksen, Casemiro and Amad who all create. The issue is the tactical setup which Amorim will fix.
I would also expect us to sign a new creative forward, Zrikzee is also a creative player too who could play in one of the 2 the inside forward position before the striker

 

[SilentWitness]

I think he will be in the PL next year. Not sure if it will be at yourselves but someone will pull the trigger. I think you, Liverpool and Arsenal will all be in the market for a striker.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Honestly I dunno about this. I recon Hojlund would tear up the Portuguese league just as easily. It's very different to being United's main striker.

 

[DJ_21]

Honestly I dunno about this. I recon Hojlund would tear up the Portuguese league just as easily. It's very different to being United's main striker.

Ye but didn’t he bang them in for Coventry. It’s an English league. He’s powerful and clinical

 

[DJ_21]

I think he will be in the PL next year. Not sure if it will be at yourselves but someone will pull the trigger. I think you, Liverpool and Arsenal will all be in the market for a striker.

Hopefully getting their manager will give us advantage

 

[Blood Mage]

Top strikers are like diamonds in the modern game, we'll have to blow most of our budget on him if we want him and even then if a stronger club comes in for him we have no chance.

 

[Cassidy]

Top strikers are like diamonds in the modern game, we'll have to blow most of our budget on him if we want him and even then if a stronger club comes in for him we have no chance.

He will apparently be available for around 60m euros. So no we wont have to blow our whole budget

 

[V.O.]

Ye but didn’t he bang them in for Coventry. It’s an English league. He’s powerful and clinical

Not at a massively impressive rate. He scored 41 in 121 games in the Championship.

Mitrovic scored 43 goals in one season.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

He will apparently be available for around 60m euros. So no we wont have to blow our whole budget

We have just spent 30m on replacing the manager. We have a lot of positions to fill given the murmurs about new formation. We might be shopping in bargain bins next season.

 

[Cassidy]

We have just spent 30m on replacing the manager. We have a lot of positions to fill given the murmurs about new formation. We might be shopping in bargain bins next season.

Not like we have any players to shift right?

What positions do you think we need to fill?
Do you not realise we actually signed players who fit the new formation this summer already?

Not like a CF will be an important position given we don’t score enough right.

But yes we are broke 30m replacing the manager means we are broke…

 

[Gandalf]

Not like we have any players to shift right?

What positions do you think we need to fill?
Do you not realise we actually signed players who fit the new formation this summer already?

Not like a CF will be an important position given we don’t score enough right.

But yes we are broke 30m replacing the manager means we are broke…

CF is always an important position but there is plenty of reason to believe that our lack of goals has far more to do with the way we set up under ETH and the tactical changes Amorim will make might cure that issue. Rasmus has an excellent shot conversion rate and so a team that actually provided him with more than one half chance a game might well see him banging them in at the same rate Viktor is for Sporting. I think we still need another striker but if Amorim feels Rasmus fits what he wants then it might be we go for a cheaper option, either a veteran backup or maybe another youngster to develop.

 

[Cassidy]

CF is always an important position but there is plenty of reason to believe that our lack of goals has far more to do with the way we set up under ETH and the tactical changes Amorim will make might cure that issue. Rasmus has an excellent shot conversion rate and so a team that actually provided him with more than one half chance a game might well see him banging them in at the same rate Viktor is for Sporting. I think we still need another striker but if Amorim feels Rasmus fits what he wants then it might be we go for a cheaper option, either a veteran backup or maybe another youngster to develop.

Thats great but I am sure we need 2 good CFs and I'm sure the club was already looking at signing Sesko in the summer anyway as reported

 

[quadrant]

We have just spent 30m on replacing the manager. We have a lot of positions to fill given the murmurs about new formation. We might be shopping in bargain bins next season.

Not really, the formation actually suits our squad. LWB is the only major shortcoming, in terms of style of players.

 

[Crimson King]

Honestly I dunno about this. I recon Hojlund would tear up the Portuguese league just as easily. It's very different to being United's main striker.

Højlund is also quite similar in many ways, especially in terms of his physicals and being a good channel runner. Well, he was at Atalanta, but under EtH we never used him that way.

Honestly, it makes more sense to let him work with Amorim first before spunking another €60m+ on another attacking player who has never played in a top a league. He's also nearly 5 years older than Højlund, so you'd expect him to be a more complete striker at the moment.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Højlund is also quite similar in many ways, especially in terms of his physicals and being a good channel runner. Well, he was at Atalanta, but under EtH we never used him that way.

Honestly, it makes more sense to let him work with Amorim first before spunking another €60m+ on another attacking player who has never played in a top a league. He's also nearly 5 years older than Højlund, so you'd expect him to be a more complete striker at the moment.

This is the hope - Amorim might end up being crap, let's see what he can do with the current squad. If we get to the end of the season and the signs are good, back him, if not then we should not be shelling out on these kinds of players who smash it up in other leagues but might completely flop in the PL.

 

[sullydnl]

He also might be in a system that works really well for him. A system we will soon be playing.

The system might explain why a player is getting more chances, but it doesn't really explain why he'd put away those chances at a much better rate.

Not really, the formation actually suits our squad. LWB is the only major shortcoming, in terms of style of players.

There are still other positions that will require signings though.

CB is obviously a key position in the system with us having to play three CBs in every game, and half our current CB options are out of contract this summer in the shape of Lindelof, Maguire and Evans. We will also likely need to strengthen further in midfield given Eriksen is also out of contract.

And that's assuming there aren't any other players he just doesn't rate enough and wants replaced as a priority, which is a pretty massive assumption. We could list half a dozen players a given manager might not rate for one reason or another.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Not like we have any players to shift right?

What positions do you think we need to fill?
Do you not realise we actually signed players who fit the new formation this summer already?

Not like a CF will be an important position given we don’t score enough right.

But yes we are broke 30m replacing the manager means we are broke…

We barely have 2 good CBs and we play with 3. The backups are liabilities/38 years olds. We dont have a proper LB and a LWB. We also dont have a starting RW.

Who would you shift that fetches us decent money?

Also calm the feck down.

 

[Cassidy]

The system might explain why a player is getting more chances, but it doesn't really explain why he'd put away those chances at a much better rate.



There are still other positions that will require signings though.

CB is obviously a key position in the system with us having to play three CBs in every game, and half our current CB options are out of contract this summer in the shape of Lindelof, Maguire and Evans. We will also likely need to strengthen further in midfield given Eriksen is also out of contract.

And that's assuming there aren't any other players he just doesn't rate enough and wants replaced as a priority, which is a pretty massive assumption. We could list half a dozen players a given manager might not rate for one reason or another.

Should also keep in mind we have a ton of talent coming through the academy

 

[Cassidy]

We barely have 2 good CBs and we play with 3. The backups are liabilities/38 years olds. We dont have a proper LB and a LWB. We also dont have a starting RW.

Also calm the feck down.

We have Martinez, De Ligt, and Yoro, we easily have 3 good CBs
We then also have Maguire, Evans and Lindelof (I'm sure these will be replaced) we also have some decent players in the u18s and u21s

 

[Cassidy]

How Gyokeres performed against his xG over the last few seasons.

19/20 St Pauli: +0.7
20/21 Swansea: -0.6
20/21 Coventry: +1.0
21/22 Coventry: -2.2
22/23 Coventry: +1.5
23/24 Sporting: +6.8
24/25 Sporting (so far): +2.3

This suggests one of two things: either he's a previously average finisher who magically turned into an absolutely fantastic finisher at the age of 25, or he's a previously average finisher having what will likely be a career-peak finishing hot streak.

And of those two possibilities, the latter is historically far more likely than the former.

That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent player, or that people would be wrong to want us to sign him, or that he wouldn't still score a lot of goals. Even if he returned at an average rate it would still be around 39 goals in his time there, which is extremely good.

But I see a lot of people super-keen on the idea of our new manager buying one of his former players in what would be a big money purchase. Something they definitely had qualms about our prior manager doing, and something we generally want to happen less often under a less manager-centred recruitment structure.

So it's worth pausing to note that whoever buys Gyokeres can in no way expect him to keep finishing like he has been, and should actively factor in that his finishing will regress.

He took a big step up at Coventry, if anyone watched him that 22/23 season, it was quite obvious he was the PL level striker, he was about 22/23 at the time.
23/24 crazy season, I think being around +2.0 will likely be were he lands

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Not really, the formation actually suits our squad. LWB is the only major shortcoming, in terms of style of players.

We only have decent first team. There’s no depth whatsoever. Eriksen and Casemiro aren’t getting any younger and so is Evans. We have to prioritize depth given how often our players get injured

 

[Cassidy]

We only have decent first team. There’s no depth whatsoever. Eriksen and Casemiro aren’t getting any younger and so is Evans. We have to prioritize depth given how often our players get injured

False, aside from LWB there are 2 players for every position and in some cases 3, then at LWB we can also consider talents like Harry Amass

 

[ayushreddevil9]

We have Martinez, De Ligt, and Yoro, we easily have 3 good CBs
We then also have Maguire, Evans and Lindelof (I'm sure these will be replaced) we also have some decent players in the u18s and u21s

Martinez has been a disaster for a while now and hasn’t been same after his injury. Yoro hasnt played a single competitive game for us.

We are barely sorted at CB if we play 3 atb.

@golden_blunder, they mentioned lindelof as a credible defender

 

[ayushreddevil9]

False, aside from LWB there are 2 players for every position and in some cases 3, then at LWB we can also consider talents like Harry Amass

If you call crap depth then there’s nothing to discuss about.

The idea of depth is that if someone steps in for a first team player then the quality of the team doesn’t drop drastically.

 

[Cassidy]

Martinez has been a disaster for a while now and hasn’t been same after his injury. Yoro hasnt played a single competitive game for us.

We are barely sorted at CB if we play 3 atb.

@golden_blunder, they mentioned lindelof as a credible defender

Martinez has been a disaster when exposed by his manager yes. In a better setup (Copa America) he was excellent.
Yoro is a top level talent, generational CB for his age.

We have the likes of Maguire, Evans and Lindelof as backups, not ideal but 2 of them have actually been decent when called upon. That's not to say we won't look to strengthen at CB in January (likely) and maybe go back in for Braithwaite, which was mooted even before the appointment.
However we clearly can cover the position because we signed 2 CBs in the summer