Gala&Copenhagen are EL level teams
Viktor Gyökeres - Sporting Striker
- Thread starter Paolo Di Canio
- Start date
I presume Gyokeres also probably faced EL teams in the EL, so a fair comparison then, you'd agree?
I’m not comparing the players I’m just disagreeing with the notion that Hojland can’t finish when on all available evidence he’s shown he’s a lethal finisher. His issue is getting chances but I think a large part of that is being in such a terrible team. Gyokeres could be world class but I’d be very surprised if he looked it in this Utd side.
I think that’s only part of the issue. We create next to nothing for our strikers and that includes the likes of Hojland, Cavani, Ronaldo etc. it’s a bigger issue than a single player.
I do not give so much weight to the difference of the quality between the Primeira Liga and the PL. Dias, Bruno, Ugarte, Neves, Luis Diaz, Militao, Nunes, etc all came from that league. A club our size must pay to bring the players who scored 30 goals or more if our main striker couldnt put together more than 16 in a complete season. When Sir Alex became manager, first summer brought a 41 goals Brian McClair. The next summer brought Mark Hughes. Goals are the most important signing that a club our size should be aiming for.
Isn't that pretty obvious? But you were implying that Höjlund was facing stronger teams(expect for Bayern) is one thing I don't agree with. 3/4 of the teams Gyokeres scored against in EL(including the winner Atalanta) have qualified for the CL this season while one of them achieved it by eliminating Galatasaray.
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I think you're reading what you want to see rather than what I actually wrote. I said CL/EL is closer in parity than PL/Primeira Liga. And please don't make out that scoring against the giants of Sturm Graz and Young boys (and a penalty) is something unique and special to write home about.
Amazing how someone can make scoring 40 plus goals a season worse than scoring 16.
Another great goal tonight. Monster player
Yep is the real deal, please somebody buy him!
Hope we come knocking on the door in the summer and sell Hojlund.
Bit harsh
Abit soon to be writing off Hojland surely after one half decent season? Just screams lf wanting the next shiny toy even if this guy does seem like the real deal.
Thank God you're not the manager
There is no 100% certainty with a signing. But following all the signings Sir Alex made from his first day at the club in 1986, the only position that he would never compromise is the CF and would always go for a player that have scored lots of goals, by doing so he ensures the player coming in is already in the system and the setup to produce. Buying an unknown kid with mediocre numbers from the Italian league to be your number 1 player is stupid and Sir Alex would have never done that. I do not know if Hojlund is anything special (I doubt it) but we need a striker that comes in and gives number right away.
Let’s not do that.
Can you remind us what Gyokeres was doing at Højlund's age?
He was at ST Pauli on loan. Banging in goals for fun. (7) may I add.
Hojlund got more than that in his first year in the prem.He was a good player for Cov as well, we've missed the chance. He'll probably cost about 70 million now if not more.
Even back then you could see he'd fit our team, very strong on the ball and runs all day as well as scoring.
I do not care really. It only matters if Hojlund is not your main striker. But unfortunately he is our main striker, and for a club in the size of Manchester United you can not have a kid learing football as your main striker.
I can accept this at any other position to learn on the go, but not as our number striker.
I mean, Højlund is considered one of the best young strikers in the world, so I really don't follow your logic. He scored 15 goals (no penalties) in his debut season at the age of 20, and will only get better with more experience. Do you honestly believe Gyokeres would add much of a difference to our team? He would - maybe - add a few more goals, but ultimately it wouldn't make much of a difference for our league position. He has not proven himself in a challenging league either, so there are no guarantees he would make the step up.
1. By whom? Maybe by you, but most certainly not outside the few united supporters bubble.
2. Irrelevant at the moment, we are not test club and most certainly not at that very important position.
3. Yes, I have no doubt he is head and shoulders above Hojlund at the moment. One scoring and assisting for fun domestic, European and international football, the other is not.
4. No, but neither did Hojlund. But in Italian and Portuguese league numbers, Hojlund is way behind.
I'm a massive fan of Hojlund and think he's really going to be a top player for us, but I can't help but agree with this. Especially when Rashford isn't scoring at a rate he once did.
I said on here we should buy him when he was leaving Coventry an actual snip of a price too if it didn't work out as well
You're all talking as if the Club could only have two CF in the squad, for all internal and international competitions.
1. By most football fans other than Liverpool fans. To get an indicator, look up any top 10 young striker lists and you'll find him in all of them. Just because you're an impatient lad who wants things right away and behaves like a 7 year old does not mean he isn't one of the highest rated young strikers in the world. Him being our main striker isn't his fault.
2. Our league position was 8th last season. Forgot that already? We are not competing for a PL trophy or CL. We can very much afford Højlund time, especially when there is a dearth of great strikers around that would significantly improve us.
3. Funny. Gyokeres have 8 goals in 3 years for Sweden, Højlund got 7 in 1 for Denmark. Højlund also got more CL goals than Gyokeres, so it's hilarious you mention "European" as if Gyokeres comes out the winner in that category. The Swede also plays in one of the easiest of the top leagues. Here is a list of other top scorers in Primeira Liga:
23/24: Simon Banza (who?!) - 21 goals in 28
22/23: Mehdi Taremi - 22 goals in 33
21/22: Nunez - 26 goals in 28
20/21: Haris Seferovic - 22 goals in 31
19/20: Pizzi - 18 goals in 34
18/19: Seferovic - 22 goals in 29
17:18: Jonas - 34 goals in 30
17/18: Bas Dost - 27 goals in 31
16/17: Bas Dost - 34 goals in 31
15/16: Jonas - 32 goals in 34
15/16: Slimani - 27 goals in 33
Were you desperate to sign Bas Dost himself, or Jonas some years back? Or maybe you didn't because you know it is fairly easy to score goals in Primeira Liga, especially if you have your whole team consistently creating chances for you and you have a huge advantage of being quick, strong or both.
4. So your idea of sorting out that problem is by signing another unproven-in-a-top-league striker who guarantees nothing? You didn't even know Gyokeres 3 years ago, and there is a reason for that.
Impatient? Heh, if anything united fans are amongst the most patient fans of all the big clubs in the world. Yes it is not his fault, it's ours that we put a kud nit that goid and that ready enough to lead the line if the biggest team in the country. Sir Alex did not play games in that position, his first summer transfer went and brought a 40 goal player as a striker, not a kid on the learning curve.
I did not forget, he is one of the reasons we are 8th.
"4. So your idea of sorting out that problem is by signing another unproven-in-a-top-league striker who guarantees nothing? You didn't even know Gyokeres 3 years ago, and there is a reason for that."
I know who he was 3 years ago, I live in Sweden.
There is a massive factor that you're completely forgetting here, and it is the fact that there simply aren't any 40 goal strikers available. If you think Gyokeres would be anywhere close to that, you're in dreamland. Alexander Isak, who is a much better player scored 16 open play goals last season, which is only 6 more than Højlund. And Newcastle scored the 4th most goals in the league at 85 and playing brilliant attacking football. Darwin Nunez scored 11 goals in the league, and Havertz scored 13. Add in the fact that we barely supply the strikers and you could realistically expect Gyokeres to score 15 league goals during the season. Do you think it's worth paying €100m for 5 goals more for a striker who is in his prime and won't improve much more?
That is ridiculous. He has a shot conversion of 26.3% last season, only beaten by Isak which illustrates the lack of chances given to him. A few of his goals were also self-made, as in he dribbled his way past defenders, took a shot and scored.
How come Liverpool and Arsenal aren't 8th if they have a striker that don't score more goals than Højlund?
Alternatively people should stop shitting on our players at every opportunity.
I really don't think anyone pays close enough attention to a single player to judge positioning during the game. I also don't think 80% of the people here (including me) would be able to tell you what the perfect position is for a striker if you freeze the frame and ask them what run they should be making at some given point. So any criticism about positioning I just don't buy unless the coach (or someone who knows what they're talking about like an Henry) says it.
Just focus on what he does on the ball and you'll probably end up with a more accurate assessment. Hold up play, first touch, variety of finishing, pace, strength, technique etc. For me his link up play isn't elite - acceptable most of the time and does the basics okay. Strong / fast but don't see him bully defenders like a Lukaku in the box. Decent finishing variety, great shot power but I don't think he's an elite finisher of the RvN / Lewandowski mould. Reasonably two footed which is great.
All in all, decent striker - happy to have him in the squad and see how he does when the attack really starts clicking. Last season was a bit of a shit show for attackers.
EDIT Just realized I'm in the Gyokeres thread and not the Hojlund one so :shrug:
Just focus on what he does on the ball and you'll probably end up with a more accurate assessment. Hold up play, first touch, variety of finishing, pace, strength, technique etc. For me his link up play isn't elite - acceptable most of the time and does the basics okay. Strong / fast but don't see him bully defenders like a Lukaku in the box. Decent finishing variety, great shot power but I don't think he's an elite finisher of the RvN / Lewandowski mould. Reasonably two footed which is great.
All in all, decent striker - happy to have him in the squad and see how he does when the attack really starts clicking. Last season was a bit of a shit show for attackers.
EDIT Just realized I'm in the Gyokeres thread and not the Hojlund one so :shrug:
100%. I’m fed up of people underrating Højlund.
I think this is actually quite an easy thing to do no?
There are only so many types of runs and generally only 1 or 2 that will be a reasonable choice considering how tight defending often is in the box at top level.
The challenge is making one without having the benefit of a freeze frame and a top down view.
That's all Hojlund is to you, but not to our scouting department.
There's a reason both United and PSG were willing to spend £64m on the unknown kid with mediocre numbers, and there's also a reason no club was willing to go near £86m for Gyökeres.
By whom? Well, basically everyone who knows something about player profiling, but I guess rival fans who probably watch 3 United games a year and have no idea what they're even watching most of the time know better!
I dunno, is it? There are various challenges videos online on Twitter / YT etc. although more for defenders than attackers. They freeze the frame and ask you what the player should do next and I get most of them wrong.
I don’t get this logic. What if Hojlund never reaches Gyokeres current level? There is no guarantee of growth for various reasons.He was at ST Pauli on loan. Banging in goals for fun. (7) may I add.
Not advocating selling him though of course just pointing out that it doesn’t work like that. Some players just develop later, Vardy was non-league at what 25?
So sell one gamble for another. Gyokeres career history tells us very little apart from his time at sporting. I don’t trust strikers from the Portuguese league; I think it’s easy to rack goals up. I’d be passing if it’s yet another striker from that league probably with an €80m price tag
I was just pointing out a fact to someone that wanted us to sell Højlund.