Ha, I see it.
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I sometimes think my TV is lagging when I see him running but he’s just that slow.
60Hz on 120Hz monitor, very fragile.
That’s why I wrote “especially”. Varane’s benefits over the other CBs are more pronounced when we do a lot of defending. When it comes to possession there are other important aspects, like ball handling, passing, withstanding press, etc, we have another situation and he is clearly not a level above the other CBs.
Only CB who can pass the ball well when pressed is Martinez, Lindelof is as bad as other CBs we have when pressed.
Varane played for Madrid who dominates 80-90% of their games, he was regarded as one of the best CB in the league. Lindelof played for the club that was playing low block counter and widely regarded as our weakest CB and now you are telling everyone how he will suit high line and possession team better than the CB who actually did it all his career.
Lindelof the actual player and Lindelof the player you imagine are very different.
@GifLord clip of Lindelof chasing shadows/their player Bruno down the left wing circa 41-42mins I think. Thanks.
The clip I requested proves exactly your first point in bold. I'll need to see it again but the strange thing is, he wasn't even necessarily 'beaten' for pace as he could have potentially got across to pressure/slow the attacker down; the problem was Lindelof had no intensity to close the space and just gave him all the time to run forward. It's been 6 years of this.
It's incredible how people exponentially elevate a player's ability in their head and use it as a basis to say 'well in this scenario, they are a better player than xyz'. They actually believe Lindelof is like the Xavi of passing.
Tonight's game and that incident at 41-42min is exactly why any sane manager would not pick Lindelof over a fit Varane. Against Everton and against Omonia, where he has little defending to do and can pass with little pressure, he still came off with less involvement and actual game influence (defensively and passing) than Martinez. Somehow, people extrapolate this to 'well he's not made any mistakes defensively and can look pleasing on the ball, therefore, he's more of an asset to us than Varane'. Absolutely shameless and insane takes from the usual suspects
Exactly. There isn't any attribute that Lindelof has, that will put him ahead of Varane except long passing, which is rare thing even for Lindelof.
Any manager, whether good, elite or shit will pick Varane over Lindelof.
Thought it was gonna be 5 0 so I really didnt bother to watch so I watched the highlights. Lindelof being left by a mile did it for me yet again. I guess I just dont see his football brilliance...
Bingo.@GifLord clip of Lindelof chasing shadows/their player Bruno down the left wing circa 41-42mins I think. Thanks.
The clip I requested proves exactly your first point in bold. I'll need to see it again but the strange thing is, he wasn't even necessarily 'beaten' for pace as he could have potentially got across to pressure/slow the attacker down; the problem was Lindelof had no intensity to close the space and just gave him all the time to run forward. It's been 6 years of this.
It's incredible how people exponentially elevate a player's ability in their head and use it as a basis to say 'well in this scenario, they are a better player than xyz'. They actually believe Lindelof is like the Xavi of passing.
Tonight's game and that incident at 41-42min is exactly why any sane manager would not pick Lindelof over a fit Varane. Against Everton and against Omonia, where he has little defending to do and can pass with little pressure, he still came off with less involvement and actual game influence (defensively and passing) than Martinez. Somehow, people extrapolate this to 'well he's not made any mistakes defensively and can look pleasing on the ball, therefore, he's more of an asset to us than Varane'. Absolutely shameless and insane takes from the usual suspects
it was the same shit in pre season where he Bailey run half the pitch, cut in on his favoured left foot and smash it in the corner.
DO SOMETHING VICTOR. You can't just job along a striker and hope that reinforcements will arrive to bail you out every damn time.
I guarantee if that was Maguire that Bruno lad would have been through on goal. Lindy did well to keep him on his left peg.
Whataboutism doesn’t work when they’re both shit
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'Something Lindelof is a superior passer, something therefore ETH will want more passing ability from his defenders as he wants a high line and more expansive football, something he may be a better bet than a fit Varane'.
Two occasions where he fecked up anticipating and didn't have the recovery pace in a high line and another where it's more of the same with zero defensive pressure.
Stats will say he passed the ball a bit further and wasn't dribbled past though
Lindelof doesn't hold a candle to Varane and realistically, he isn't competing for the Frenchman's place, it's Martinez's and once again he is several levels below in every aspect.
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Your team gets a clean sheet. xG against you is as low as 0.12. Imagine one poster spending hours to dig up stuff from pre season to throw shit on the centre back what a car crash of poster
what a car crash of posterWhat a car crash of a defender.
That guy Bruno was rapid, he even left Dalot for dead and Dalot wasn’t catching him and Dalot is rapid. So Lindelof getting rinsed isn’t a surprise or anything to really hold against him. Varane is probably quicker and I agree better at pretty much everything. If you have the choice you go with a fully fit Varane.
Lindelof is decent back up, to me 3rd choice CB but that is his role in this team. He’ll likely get loads of chances mind as Varane goes through phases where it’s like he is built of glass.
Lindelof however to me last few outings has looked solid and like someone we can depend on.
Lindelof is decent back up, to me 3rd choice CB but that is his role in this team. He’ll likely get loads of chances mind as Varane goes through phases where it’s like he is built of glass.
Lindelof however to me last few outings has looked solid and like someone we can depend on.
You people are so strange. When a player you don’t rate plays ok, why can’t you just acknowledge that? This is the performance thread, to talk about specific performances. Not to regurgitate long held opinions again and again, after every single match. That’s boring as feck.
He had an ok game. But the opposition were shite, so we learned nothing. He was also decent against Everton, which is more encouraging. But there are much tougher tests ahead.
That’s really the only (rational) opinion to have about Lindelof over the last couple of games.
He had an ok game. But the opposition were shite, so we learned nothing. He was also decent against Everton, which is more encouraging. But there are much tougher tests ahead.
That’s really the only (rational) opinion to have about Lindelof over the last couple of games.
Ah but he's not . He was up against a speedy forward and kept him on his weak foot. That's good defending.
World class is taking the ball off the attacker. He's not that. Poor defending is letting him in one on one. He is and always has been a good defender.
He’s been here 6 years, we have more than enough examples of him not being a ‘good’ defender. Being passive is not defending, it’s merely waiting till your mates bail you out
In modern football that is what you are coached to do and what is classed as good defending.
At a point the defender shadowing the run will make an attempt to win the ball but only when there is cover behind or more support. It’s about limiting the chances of error.
Diving in one on one is terrible defending as it’s so easy to be bypassed and this is why many wait for the attacker to make the move. Now obviously there are situations where you don’t shadow. If the defender has their back to you you will go in to a challenge. If you can physically match the, whilst shadowing the run and can step across winning the ball then you do that.
These are things Lindelof does all the time but some people just don’t know how to defend or are stuck in a version of football from the 80’s.
Now I’m not saying Lindelof is amazing. Seen him try to do some of the things above and get completley out muscled or bounced out the way when he really shouldn’t have but I’ve seen it happen to Varane and Van Dijk also so…..
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This is what probably gets me the most. We have huge patches where he can’t do anything right, then a small patch where he’s ok and suddenly it’s proclaimed again that we can depend on him. We clearly can’t depend on him because historical seasons have already taught us that he’s got mistakes in him and he lacks consistency to minimize them.
but this same cycle will repeat until he’s left. Hopefully takes his partner in crime with him. 2 defenders that shouldn’t be at this level if we want to progress
Christ all the Lindelof lovers are coming out today
It's biding time, not giving the whole show away and it works most of the time. And yes it is defending just not the type you like.
Works most of the time? Huh
usually when he coughs up chances it’s because he’s backing away for so long that they get a cross or shot in
It doesn’t look as Lindelof picked up max speed and was focusing on staying slightly behind so Bruno couldn’t cut in to get a good shooting angle or to be able to pass the ball. At the end he lets him go a little too much maybe, but then Bruno is already in a position where it is very awkward for a right footed player to shoot and it would’ve taken a howler from DDG for him to score .
Playing a high line these things will happen when we lose position and our front players don’t apply quick press. Normally the CBs take care of it. I think this was the only “chance” on our right side in the two matches now where we played high line. There was also an incident a minute earlier where an Omonia player was able to pick his pass, it went just over Martinez’ head to an attacking player in the box, but was cleaned out by Lindelof (who took a bit of chance since he had to leave his man in the box to take care of it). Key is we apply intense press immediately when we lose possession.
He might not be the fastest, but Lindelöf’s a good shot blocker and always puts in a shift. Definitely has a future here.
I’m out for a bit, you’ve all been drinking the kool aid this morningGreat response but again that is modern defending and what you’re taught to do. So this debate is going to go on and on till people actually educate themselves and learn how the modern game is played and realise that things might have moved on from their long held believes that they can’t let go.
”as a defender if you have to go to ground, then you already made the mistake”
Rio Ferdinand
Who’s talking about going to ground? I’m talking about proactively taking control, using your body physically, trying actual challenges. I’m not talking about diving in. Any fool knows you don’t dive in all the time.
passive defending just enables the attacker to get his cross or shot off and then it’s hope for the best time. There is a time and place to Shepard players until everyone gets back, it shouldn’t be your only play
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Tarkowski on Rashford’s disallowed goal is an example of how the confrotative type of defending can go wrong.
Your team gets a clean sheet. xG against you is as low as 0.12. Imagine one poster spending hours to dig up stuff from pre season to throw shit on the centre back
Ohh someone is triggered. 'Digging up stuff' from the last 10 games he has played? Literally commented and pointed out by other posters. Actual video examples somehow a poor use of evidence? The irony is staggering coming from somebody who has an obtuse use of stats quoting from premierleague.com, fbref or whoscored whenever it suits their narrative, which is basically 'Lindelof good, everyone else poor(er)' in some way. These actual examples (not some stat about 'low probability conceding rate') of him being passive and poor is nothing new and something he does consistently yet apparently he's better suited to a high line and expansive football compared to Varane. Car crash of a poster? Yes, it's you.
Anyone reading this, this guy genuinely believes Lindelof may be better suited to ETH's football than a fit Varane because of two performances against Everton and Omonoia.
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I can give many more examples of Martinez this season where defending on the front foot and cutting out an attack without backing away nips an attack in the bud. Nobody's asking Lindelof to jump in everytime but he usually backs away till the attacker reaches close to the box and by then, we're in trouble.
And he seems to have no upper body strength for some reason. Most duels he contests ends up with the attacker winning it.
Never said that. I wrote that a fit and on form Varane is a level above every CB at the club when it comes to defensive work, but he’s not a level above everybody else when it comes to ball handling. Think you are the only one I’ve heard of who doesn’t agree with that. But again, you’re a YouTube highlights kind of guy and I only followed Varane’s entire career by watching live matches so what would I know.
All three of them!?
Weird thread this
He's a squad player that done decent coming in when Varane was out. Is there really so much to debate about?
He's a squad player that done decent coming in when Varane was out. Is there really so much to debate about?
They’re all here. Even @Vidyoyo
Honestly not sure what you mean? But it’s not exactly like we are keeping clean sheets is it ?
You're creating arguments and points in your head that never happened. Read your own post again. The whole chain of conversation is that someone ludicrously believes Lindelof should be first choice ahead of Varane next to Martinez and your responses are basically to supplement that claim.
Context matters. This is your exact post, quoting a post which said Varane is levels above Lindelof as a defender period, who themselves was quoting a post that claimed Lindelof can replace Varane because passing good mmkay. So you've praise Varane initially only to insinuate that his qualities aren't as good outside of a low defence (and reduce his qualities to only being good in a low defence), all to imply that Lindelof can offer those things on the ball and that he can step in defensively as well. You wouldn't have needed to chime in and double down on Varane's 'limits' unless you supported the whole idea yourself. Strange reimagining of this whole conversation when it's literally for all to see. Nobody except yourself has mentioned anything about Varane being the best ball handling centre back.
He is the biggest nothing player I have ever seen. No brilliant attributes but not particularly bad at anything.
I’ve never said he’s the best ball handling CB. I would put him as no 3 in that aspect.
Isn't that what you want from your reserve players? And he is now not a regular and only the back up.
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