[Irwin99]

The Lindelof Martinez partnership looked decent whenever I saw it but I think it's wrong to suggest that his mixed United career has been down to Maguire even though i've stated many times they seem to drag each other down when they partner each other. Maguire can't be blamed for some of the real passive defending we've seen down the years and there have been lots of times when Maguire hasn't played and Lindelof had a bad game.

I think Lindelof could be a good backup centre back but i don't think it would be all that bad if we brought in another right sided centre and let him go. From his perspective I could see him doing very well in Italy or Spain.

 

[golden_blunder]

You have a weird fixation with Lindelöf, and it’s starting to look like he stole your girlfriend or something. To me, I love having Varane and Lisandro, who is my favorite CB since Vidic and Ferdinand, but if we’re honest Lindelöf does less individual errors than Lisandro. Lindelöf makes remarkably few clear errors. Lisandro just makes it worth it because his best is better.

I’d say we’re pretty licky to have a third choice CB of Lindelöf’s stability.

Jog on. All I’ve suggested is that the errors we’ve seen over the last 6 years all cannot be put down to playing with Maguire. That’s just an excuse, and one which isn’t the full story

 

[simmee]

Jog on. All I’ve suggested is that the errors we’ve seen over the last 6 years all cannot be put down to playing with Maguire. That’s just an excuse, and one which isn’t the full story

"All I've suggested"... Mate, you have 153 posts in this thread and the one with the 2nd most is A-man on 81 (who you have previously accused of being a Lindelof fanboy, wonder what that makes you...). I think you would enjoy our games more if you focused on supporting the team rather than thinking of "all Lindelof's errors over the last 6 years".

 

[golden_blunder]

"All I've suggested"... Mate, you have 153 posts in this thread and the one with the 2nd most is A-man on 81 (who you have previously accused of being a Lindelof fanboy, wonder what that makes you...). I think you would enjoy our games more if you focused on supporting the team rather than thinking of "all Lindelof's errors over the last 6 years".

Again, I replying to the last 2 pages only which are all suggesting it’s only maguires fault. Am I supposed to sit quietly and not respond to posts on a forum? You guys are obsessed with me as you say that I am with Lindelof. Stay on topic or jog on

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

This is the best Victor has played for us and he’s been great but I don’t agree that it’s because of Maguire not playing next to him.

Lindelof in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 was a terrible defender. Meek, shy and turned like a truck. He actually slightly improved with Maguire next to him in 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 but still nowhere near the right standard.

He has been brilliant the last few games. Long may it continue. It’s clear that ETH has been working on his game.

 

[andersj]

I dont think its fair to say Lindelofs problems has been playing with Maguire. But I do think you could argue that Lindelof has suffered from playing in a team playing a football that dont really suit him (and probably suited Maguire better).

I still dont think Man Utd play a type of football that really suit Lindelof, and I would not be surprised if we got to see alot more from him next year if we turn in to a more possession based side.

I think you could argue that he is a defender that is not really good at all aspect of defending. The same is the case for John Stones. I also think it is, to an extent, the case for van Dijk. Always was. But Liverpool and Klopp played to his strenghts. He never looked as good in Southampton as he immediatly did at Liverpool. And when van Dijk now struggle more it is about how Liverpool defend as a team compared to a year ago.

 

[justsomebloke]

Lindelof seems a good fit stylistically, and is probably as good a CB as you could hope to have in the squad without him expecting to play more than a third choice CB will. Also, he's probably had his best season in a United shirt this year. Don't see a reason why we wouldn't want to keep him, to be honest.

 

[Lyng]

Again, I replying to the last 2 pages only which are all suggesting it’s only maguires fault. Am I supposed to sit quietly and not respond to posts on a forum? You guys are obsessed with me as you say that I am with Lindelof. Stay on topic or jog on

Of course it isnt Maguires fault. But its a fact that Lindelöf suffers while playing next to Maguire. And that goes for the rest of our backline as well.

Its also pretty clear that Lindelöf has improved a lot this season. Yes he still has his issues and lacks physicallity but as a bench option he is a great one to have.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Excellent recent form for the Iceman Victor Windelof.

He's got a great long pass on him too, would like to see him and Shaw at CB until end of the season unless Varane comes back.

 

[golden_blunder]

Of course it isnt Maguires fault. But its a fact that Lindelöf suffers while playing next to Maguire. And that goes for the rest of our backline as well.

Its also pretty clear that Lindelöf has improved a lot this season. Yes he still has his issues and lacks physicallity but as a bench option he is a great one to have.

I agree, they’re awful, like a bad relationship. Ones not good for the other.
Lindelof has improved, you will see positive comments from me after his last 2 matches in particular.
I just always go back to my thoughts when we were linked to him, he’d struggle in the PL. nothing in the 6 years since, has changed my opinion.
backup? Sure. One of the first pick CB pairing? No chance, lacks too many attributes or at least the consistency to display those.

 

[Lyng]

I agree, they’re awful, like a bad relationship. Ones not good for the other.
Lindelof has improved, you will see positive comments from me after his last 2 matches in particular.
I just always go back to my thoughts when we were linked to him, he’s struggle in the PL. nothing in the 6 years since far has changed my opinion.
backup? Sure. One of the first pick CB pairing? No chance, lacks too many attributes or at least the consistency to display those.

I would agree with that.

 

[MadDogg]

This is the best Victor has played for us and he’s been great but I don’t agree that it’s because of Maguire not playing next to him.

Lindelof in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 was a terrible defender. Meek, shy and turned like a truck. He actually slightly improved with Maguire next to him in 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 but still nowhere near the right standard.

He has been brilliant the last few games. Long may it continue. It’s clear that ETH has been working on his game.

17/18 he was truly terrible but you're being harsh of his 18//19. He was decent that season, and especially in the second half of that season he was fairly good. He was our best central defender overall, narrowly ahead of Smalling. Sure it was low standards as Smalling himself seemed a bit slower and less agile that season and our other defenders were either injured or shit, but Lindelof certainly wasn't 'terrible'.

 

[Grande]

Jog on. All I’ve suggested is that the errors we’ve seen over the last 6 years all cannot be put down to playing with Maguire. That’s just an excuse, and one which isn’t the full story

I’ll never understand what’s the point of writing ‘jog on’ on a discussion forum. If you don’t like disagreements on Lindelöf, why do you frequent the thread so mutch? That’s why it seems like a fixation to someone like me, who see him more as a normal player with strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Red00012]

Always liked Lindelof. When Varane returns, I don't think it's a given that he starts over him.

come off it

 

[golden_blunder]

I’ll never understand what’s the point of writing ‘jog on’ on a discussion forum. If you don’t like disagreements on Lindelöf, why do you frequent the thread so mutch? That’s why it seems like a fixation to someone like me, who see him more as a normal player with strengths and weaknesses.

And I see him as someone with more weaknesses than strengths for playing in this league. The thought on Lindelof in here seems to change like the wind. I guarantee next error that impacts a game, there will be a crowd in here going on about how quickly we need him out. Then he will play good and the mood changes. Repeat for 6 years.
my opinion is consistent

 

[Grande]

And I see him as someone with more weaknesses than strengths for playing in this league. The thought on Lindelof in here seems to change like the wind. I guarantee next error that impacts a game, there will be a crowd in here going on about how quickly we need him out. Then he will play good and the mood changes. Repeat for 6 years.
my opinion is consistent

I’ll give you that. I’ll think you’ll find others don’t really change their mind so much, it’s more that mr A and Mrs C is sceptical and drops in to write when Lindelöf has had a particularily weak game, while Mrs B and Mr D is sympathetic and pops off a comment when he’s had a few good performances. Only you enter the thread whatever the situation to write about his proposed errors and none of his strengths. Which makes me think that his errors must multiply in your mind, because on pure ratio of errors, I find he is on par with Varane, ahead of Martinez and Shaw, and way, way ahead of Maguire, Bailly, Jones and Tuanzebe (CB’s at the club).

On particular strengths, I’ll have Varane and Martinez any day, almost regardless of form, while as an all round third option to sit in with various other CB’s, I think he’s a very good fit.

 

[top1whoisman]

Second best 3rd CB option in the league?

City: If you consider Dias & Stones as the best two, I'd say Aké is better than Lindelöf, Akanji perhaps on the same level. Difficult to say anything about Laporte as he never plays football anymore.

Arsenal: Lindelöf is better than Holding & Kiwior.

Newcastle: Better than Lascelles

Liverpool: Better than Matip

Tottenham: Better than Dier, Davies & Lenglet

Chelsea: If Thiago Silva & Badiashile is the best pairing, Lindelöf is at least on the same level as Koulibaly and Fofana?

Trigger that option until 2025 and see where we're at in May 2024.

 

[ManchesterMats]

And I see him as someone with more weaknesses than strengths for playing in this league. The thought on Lindelof in here seems to change like the wind. I guarantee next error that impacts a game, there will be a crowd in here going on about how quickly we need him out. Then he will play good and the mood changes. Repeat for 6 years.
my opinion is consistent

Correct observation. For some reason people in here tend to have a hard time making up there mind if Lindelöf is a good or a bad player.

We have had 5-6 years that we have been able to observe him. After those years this is clear to me:

- He is a passive defender that avoids physical duels if possible.
- He had bad positioning when he came to United. His positioning has become better.
- He is ok in aerial duels. Which also has gotten better once he learned how to positionate himself.
- He has good passing skills.
- He is not the fastest defender in the League but neither is he the slowest.
- He rarely slidetackles. Instead he backs up when defending trying to make the opponent get into dead spaces while the defence gets time to establish.

The above is what we will get from Lindelöf. If we want a centreback who’s hot-headed, slidetackles and defends more actively he is not the best choice.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Maguire cannot catch a break these days

Seems like everyone improves once you take Maguire out of the equation.

Not sure how accurate that is but mud sticks !

 

[criticalanalysis]

I’ll give you that. I’ll think you’ll find others don’t really change their mind so much, it’s more that mr A and Mrs C is sceptical and drops in to write when Lindelöf has had a particularily weak game, while Mrs B and Mr D is sympathetic and pops off a comment when he’s had a few good performances. Only you enter the thread whatever the situation to write about his proposed errors and none of his strengths. Which makes me think that his errors must multiply in your mind, because on pure ratio of errors, I find he is on par with Varane, ahead of Martinez and Shaw, and way, way ahead of Maguire, Bailly, Jones and Tuanzebe (CB’s at the club).

On particular strengths, I’ll have Varane and Martinez any day, almost regardless of form, while as an all round third option to sit in with various other CB’s, I think he’s a very good fit.

It depends on what you define as 'error'. The issue is because of Lindelof's passive and non-engaging/non-committal style of defending, he may not 'make' an error but the team suffers because there is not an action taken, which can positively affect the team. This ends up being really weak individual play, regardless of the system, coaching and/or instructions and imo is categorically an error because in-game participation plays are not a binary measure i.e like stats are. With Lindelof, it's like nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Below are two time-stamped examples and an almost, hilarious carbon copy representation (against the same player as well!) of Lindelof's passive tendencies, which has given plenty of people, fuel to critique on. These are not examples picked from some random game or something that has only happened once or twice; it's something he's shown dozens and dozens of times over 200+ games.






Both times, he's allowed Watkins to dribble 10-30 yards into the box with little to no pressure and even got himself done. Both incidents, which could have lead to a goal conceded in each game. Now of course last week he redeemed it with a brilliant headed clearance but his traits have always been there. For me, I find it plenty logical to be commenting on these individual plays and expecting more but for some, it's seen as 'he's not made an error and he was delaying the player'. Yet this criticism is then downplayed as being overly critical or a hater, 'you're not seeing his strengths'. And now some people are extrapolating his latest form, which is likely due to him maturing as a player, knowing he has to step up and being ultra fresh, then hyping him beyond normal standards. Better passer than Martinez, would start ahead of a fit Varane, best third centre back in the league, his previous 200+ games/6 years of his career and inconsistency was down to Maguire/Ole/Mourinho/Smalling/the tea lady, 'he's been really good this season when called upon (let's forget the first 3-4 months)' etc. Proper mind boggling stuff.

With that all said, if he keeps it up and continues to be more proactive and effective, then we only need to comment on the present because maybe he does have a future here.

 

[Grande]

It depends on what you define as 'error'. The issue is because of Lindelof's passive and non-engaging/non-committal style of defending, he may not 'make' an error but the team suffers because there is not an action taken, which can positively affect the team. This ends up being really weak individual play, regardless of the system, coaching and/or instructions and imo is categorically an error because in-game participation plays are not a binary measure i.e like stats are. With Lindelof, it's like nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Below are two time-stamped examples and an almost, hilarious carbon copy representation (against the same player as well!) of Lindelof's passive tendencies, which has given plenty of people, fuel to critique on. These are not examples picked from some random game or something that has only happened once or twice; it's something he's shown dozens and dozens of times over 200+ games.






Both times, he's allowed Watkins to dribble 10-30 yards into the box with little to no pressure and even got himself done. Both incidents, which could have lead to a goal conceded in each game. Now of course last week he redeemed it with a brilliant headed clearance but his traits have always been there. For me, I find it plenty logical to be commenting on these individual plays and expecting more but for some, it's seen as 'he's not made an error and he was delaying the player'. Yet this criticism is then downplayed as being overly critical or a hater, 'you're not seeing his strengths'. And now some people are extrapolating his latest form, which is likely due to him maturing as a player, knowing he has to step up and being ultra fresh, then hyping him beyond normal standards. Better passer than Martinez, would start ahead of a fit Varane, best third centre back in the league, his previous 200+ games/6 years of his career and inconsistency was down to Maguire/Ole/Mourinho/Smalling/the tea lady, 'he's been really good this season when called upon (let's forget the first 3-4 months)' etc. Proper mind boggling stuff.

With that all said, if he keeps it up and continues to be more proactive and effective, then we only need to comment on the present because maybe he does have a future here.

I’m not quite sure why you answered me, I responded specifically to one other posters consistent, overactive and completely onesided hyperbolic writing about Lindelöf. I hold very few of the opinions you single out in your post, and I don’t disagree that Lindelöf has a tendency for passive defending in some types of situation. I do think often there is a point to it (staying on feet, not overcomitting, cutting passing/shooting lanes), whereas many times I’ve been frustrated with him allowing too much leeway to attackers (arms behind back, standing off, allowing deep runs, allowing time for a pass). I think this comes and goes a bit, but probably few times I would categorize it as clear and obvious errors like Maguire’s mispaced passes, Martinez sometimes overcommitting or Malcia being grossly out of position. It’s more a weak tendency in his play, and I think it’s about an exaggeration of cautiousness, which IMO is the biggest single difference between Victor and Lisandro.

I can’t comment on the videos because they are not available in my location.

I think on the question of consistency, that Lindelöf has been probably out most consistent CB since his second season here, was it 2017? Then of course I don’t count Lisandro and Varane because of short timespan, there’s nothing wrong with their consistency so far, apart from Varane struggling at times last season, like everyone else.

To me , I’d seek to replace Maguire, Bailly, Jones and Tuanzebe with one trustworthy CB and maybe one more on the talent side to add to backup solutions like Shaw (we need him at LB imo) and Casemiro. Therefore I’m very content that we have Lindelöf filling the gaps with all the other changes needed, and he seems to be a good lad and a positive influence on the squad, and prepared to take the kind of role we need him to as a back up potato on left and righ CB and sometimes RB and MF even.

 

[golden_blunder]

I’m not quite sure why you answered me, I responded specifically to one other posters consistent, overactive and completely onesided hyperbolic writing about Lindelöf. I hold very few of the opinions you single out in your post, and I don’t disagree that Lindelöf has a tendency for passive defending in some types of situation. I do think often there is a point to it (staying on feet, not overcomitting, cutting passing/shooting lanes), whereas many times I’ve been frustrated with him allowing too much leeway to attackers (arms behind back, standing off, allowing deep runs, allowing time for a pass). I think this comes and goes a bit, but probably few times I would categorize it as clear and obvious errors like Maguire’s mispaced passes, Martinez sometimes overcommitting or Malcia being grossly out of position. It’s more a weak tendency in his play, and I think it’s about an exaggeration of cautiousness, which IMO is the biggest single difference between Victor and Lisandro.

I can’t comment on the videos because they are not available in my location.

I think on the question of consistency, that Lindelöf has been probably out most consistent CB since his second season here, was it 2017? Then of course I don’t count Lisandro and Varane because of short timespan, there’s nothing wrong with their consistency so far, apart from Varane struggling at times last season, like everyone else.

To me , I’d seek to replace Maguire, Bailly, Jones and Tuanzebe with one trustworthy CB and maybe one more on the talent side to add to backup solutions like Shaw (we need him at LB imo) and Casemiro. Therefore I’m very content that we have Lindelöf filling the gaps with all the other changes needed, and he seems to be a good lad and a positive influence on the squad, and prepared to take the kind of role we need him to as a back up potato on left and righ CB and sometimes RB and MF even.

Are you referring to me?

 

[Devil81]

Absolutely no objection to Lindelof being a squad rotation player. I actually think he's been underused this season as ETH has been trying to turn Maguire's form around.

 

[Grande]

Are you referring to me?

I’m referring to what I wrote to you directly further up, yes.

 

[golden_blunder]

I’m referring to what I wrote to you directly further up, yes.

Sweet, I’ve never been referred to as hyperbolic before so that’s a first

 

[golden_blunder]

Aside from being saved early on by DeGeas big face, thought he played well after that

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Aside from being saved early on by DeGeas big face, thought he played well after that

You've been got at, haven't you.
One good game last time out and they've converted you.

My wife had to stop me swearing to stop calling him a useless c**t tonight. Lost count how many times.

If they renew his contract I will despair.

 

[golden_blunder]

You've been got at, haven't you.
One good game last time out and they've converted you.

My wife had to stop me swearing to stop calling him a useless c**t tonight. Lost count how many times.

If they renew his contract I will despair.

Don’t get me wrong he’s very lucky DeGeas face saved him from that brain fart. That’s one of my issues with Lindelof, there’s always a brain fart round the corner

 

[Sylar]

He's defo more aggressive when playing with Shaw next to him.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Don’t get me wrong he’s very lucky DeGeas face saved him from that brain fart. That’s one of my issues with Lindelof, there’s always a brain fart round the corner

Yes but that wasn't the only thing wrong tonight. He invites pressure and his positioning, (non)tackling, heading is so bad. Plus his slow weak passes which also invite pressure. He's my height but looks about a foot shorter on the field.
But we've been through all this numerous times.

I just want him and Maguire gone.

 

[CM]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how Lindelof is playing at the moment. There was that iffy moment early on but other than that he was pretty assured again, I didn't think he had it in him.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Squad player at best, did decent but never a dominant defender and he's way too reactive. Players like him invite pressure.

 

[Ekeke]

Very poor start with a big mistake that should have put us behind, but a decent game after that

 

[bosnian_red]

He's excellent to have in the squad tbh

 

[Revan]

Big mistake at the beginning, flawless after that. I like that he is being quite aggressive.

 

[Raven]

He's actually having a really good season I think.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

You've been got at, haven't you.
One good game last time out and they've converted you.

My wife had to stop me swearing to stop calling him a useless c**t tonight. Lost count how many times.

If they renew his contract I will despair.

It's good to have an open mind and alter your opinion based on changing conditions. Weird time to be slamming Lindelof considering he is going through one of his best spells at the club and has really stepped up and limited the hurt caused by our first choice CBs both being out. Defense wasn't the issue yesterday, again, odd time to be bashing Lindelof when he was one of our better players.

 

[joedirt87]

Worried about him vs Antonio on Sunday, will be the most physical striker he's gone up against since returning to the starting lineup.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

It's good to have an open mind and alter your opinion based on changing conditions. Weird time to be slamming Lindelof considering he is going through one of his best spells at the club and has really stepped up and limited the hurt caused by our first choice CBs both being out. Defense wasn't the issue yesterday, again, odd time to be bashing Lindelof when he was one of our better players.

He's had one good match - if you think he played well yesterday, we need urgent help. We need one fit goalscoring striker and two replacement backups for our CB's.

 

[Raven]

He's had one good match - if you think he played well yesterday, we need urgent help. We need one fit goalscoring striker and two replacement backups for our CB's.

Even @golden_blunder can see he's turned in a good performance yesterday. I'm not sure what you expect from him.