Lindelöf was tidy in possession yesterday, absolutely, but Martinez was magnificent. Constantly finding passes and he was the main link to Case and Eriksen all the time, as well as taking quite a few very good runs as well.
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Lindelöf was tidy in possession yesterday, absolutely, but Martinez was magnificent. Constantly finding passes and he was the main link to Case and Eriksen all the time, as well as taking quite a few very good runs as well.
Er not your mate, not sure why you got so uppity about my post. Didn’t label anyone a fanboy either. If you’ve taken offence then enjoy it as I’ve no idea who or what you are.
Eh ? golden blunder who was replying to my post specifically , you quoted his post and said this “I don’t think the penny will ever drop with his fans”.
Didn’t think it was needed to point out such a simple thing but there you go.
I counted four attempted brilliant long passes - not one reached their target.
Defensively had little to do.
Don't do this to me after I was the only one who responding nicely to your posts in the politics thread.
He was very good last night.
Sensitive muchly. Hope you get over it soon.
I never said you were one of his fans, I’d didn’t reply to you and it looks very much like you’re annoyed at GB but decided to have a pop at me instead.
Yea, this is my take as well. He doesn’t outright win as many duels as a Maguire, Wan Bissaka or Varane, but opponents very seldom get anything out of the duels with him either.
He had a blunder vs Omonia, but when he plays like yesterday, he’s the ideal squad defender, as he can adapt to any partner and system fairly efficiently.
We now have several games in a row with only two days of rest in between. You can’t play every player every game, especially not Varane. Am not sure when Maguire is back, but it looks to me that Lindelof fits better than him.
Up until the last 20 minutes Martinez passing was good but then Everton started to apply more pressure and he lost possession /missed a few passes.
I’m far less concerned about him than Maguire.
He's atrocious in the air and across the ground which isn't a good combination in a centre back. Usually you want someone to show some sort of physical domination over an attacker.
Decent on the ball and can read the game okay, when he's not doing the back pedaling thing. He's an alright squad centre half. Just disappointing for what we paid and the fact he's never really kicked on, so rather than become a top CB we've had to settle for a guy that can mill around the squad and "do a job"
Decent on the ball and can read the game okay, when he's not doing the back pedaling thing. He's an alright squad centre half. Just disappointing for what we paid and the fact he's never really kicked on, so rather than become a top CB we've had to settle for a guy that can mill around the squad and "do a job"
This is all exaggeration. If he was simply the sum of how you described him he would not have been able to have several good spells of form at PL level.
I initially thought the same as many in this thread. I wondered how we could sign a centre half with no physical qualities. Lindelöf is not aerially dominant (although he has improved MASSIVELY in this aspect to when he first joined to the point where I’d say he is not a liability in the air), he isn’t fast and isn’t particularly strong. So I thought, ‘how can you possibly defend well?’. But he showed me how. Football is changing, and he didn’t fit the traditional profile, but he makes it work quite often and has had many big games, not just any games too, games at The Etihad for a start. He makes crucial blocks and interceptions quite often, but I think people cannot see past some sort of John Terry profile as the template.
He’s far less calamitous than Harold and while not spectacular by any means, generally does the basics well. He’s a player who I think we could sell for a good fee for sure, and I could see him excelling at a different club. He’s just not going to outsprint and physically bully his man, but that isn’t the only way to stop him scoring. He’s also good on the ball, can bring it out when he’s in the mood and is a good passer.
You say it's an exaggeration and then you proceed to agree with my analysis of him physically, you've just put it in kinder words. Which is basically that he is fairly inept in those departments and tends to look very bad when anyone runs at him, competes physically and sometimes in the air. This is just plain as day, unfortunately. He has good games but over the course of his United career these aspects have let him down as they're hard to always cover over. It's not really about being John Terry, it's just clear that top defenders tend to have more demonstrable qualities in the challenge. The game hasn't changed to avoid all confrontation just yet.
If he was good in any one of those departments he could possibly be a top player, as yes he can read play and pass, albeit a bit slow with decision making at times.
I’ve agreed with your assessment of his physical qualities, and disagreed with the conclusion you have drawn from that. Hard as it may be to believe, it’s still a fact IMO, that despite no outstanding physical qualities he has still been a very good centre half at the top of the game for much of his career. We can keep going back to the fact that he isn’t rapid just as we can keep saying ‘yea but Martinez is too short’. The fact is, he’s still been a very good performer for Manchester United on the whole. The fact that he’s managed that without being physically dominant doesn’t change that.
Regarding his heading in fact, I’d go as far as to say that it is no longer a ‘weakness’ in his game.
Has he really been at the top of the game? He's been at a top club, but that's not quite the same thing because he largely failed to impress most observers and it's also coincided with a pretty unsuccessful side. So the headline on the CV is a lot more impressive than the fine detail. We've also had to replace him. Let's be frank about that, Varane and Martinez were not just bought to be competition, the managers have found Maguire and Lindelof to be lacking. So that's not really a guy that's been firing on all cylinders.
I'm not sure the Martinez thing works because yes he's short but he also seems to physically hold his own. I wouldn't say he's slow or bad in contact. He hasn't even looked bad aerially, and he's only been here five minutes. Lindelof has had many years of mediocrity in my opinion.
No mate, I’m not annoyed with anyone. I actually agreed with him. Regarding your “I didn’t reply to you”, I don’t think you know how quoting someone works. Anyway let’s bury this. Have a good day.
I’m not sure if you’re taking this piss fella or believe what you’re putting out?
Really?? “Very good”??
“top of his game” it that’s the top I hate the see the bottom!
attackers go past him with ease, he backs off with his arms behind his back and usually always gets out jumped or out muscled. Positioning is ok; I wouldn’t say it’s good. Long passing has been great but doesn’t do it often enough to affect games. Short passing involves, infuriatingly, passing sideways to Maguire or backwards to DeGea, repeatedly. Neither him or Maguire have in a way way solidified our defence. You can already see our new midget standing taller than both of them
The Iceman wasn't exactly commanding, but he put in a decent shift. No complaints from me about our third choice CB.
He was good yesterday and helped defend and see out the match.
I don't understand the shit people toss at him because while he's not world class, he's been a professional and been asked by 3 managers to play for them, so he's obviously doing something right.
Jones, Bailly, and Tuanzebe never took their chances. With Maguire injured and in terrible form, Victor is more than adequate in his role.
I don't understand the shit people toss at him because while he's not world class, he's been a professional and been asked by 3 managers to play for them, so he's obviously doing something right.
Jones, Bailly, and Tuanzebe never took their chances. With Maguire injured and in terrible form, Victor is more than adequate in his role.
I’m curious if people still rate Maguire over Lindelof? I think Lindelof played well against Everton.
I dont think it even matters any more. Maguire (much like Lindelöf) clearly isnt good enough to be a starter for United and when he is on the bench there will be leaks and bitching in the media, largely also due to the british press and pundits obsession with him.
There is way to much noise around Maguire. He should be sold as soon as possible.
The real question is whether Lindelöf is good enough to be a bench option for us.
I don’t think that’s a question anymore, sane people know neither are good enough. Both full of mistakes
You mean Jose who bought him but complained about him, wanted to replace him but was overruled by Woodward?
or ole who showed us how good him and Maguire were
or maybe Erik who essentially replaced him and only picked him because Varane was injured?
at best he is now a bencher
Weird criticism, everyone knows hes not first choice. He was also injured when the season started. However he came in and played well when required. Thats what we need from a squad member
Agreed. Ball tempo is also a thing there - Martinez and Casemiro are both much better at passing the ball quickly than our old boys (particularly Maguire but also Lindelof). That's a joy to see.
Could be useful as a squad member and for early cup games but that should be it, he clearly isn't good enough to be a starter and never will be.
I don’t know, the Maguire people said some pretty ridiculous shit and I’m just wondering if they still admit it. I read on another United site, written by one of the mods, that Maguire was top 5 if not top 3 in the world. Yes, you read that right. I never saw it. He’s never done jack fecking shit to earn plaudits like that.
And it was always in the context of “He’s better than Lindelof “. He just isn’t. I think in a ball-playing team where players need to have some tactical awareness about them - like what ETH is trying to create - you’d pick Lindelof 9 times out of 10 over Maguire.
It’s irrelevant if either are good enough to start for United because both of them did for a long time. In the fantasy United where we are contenders obviously neither are good enough, but then again no one in the team (practically) is good enough to be the team.
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I thought he was very good v Everton, and most clubs would be glad if he's the centre back coming into the side. If he's happy with a squad role I'd be sorry to lose him
No he hasn’t but it’s fair to say that he had one season where he was very solid in PL standards. Then it all went to shit
It’s a point in response to the poster saying he’s picked by 3 managers so must be doing something right
At best he's behind Varane and Martinez and that's totally fine because they are better than him. The managers picked him and keep him involved. The club had all the chances to drop him more often or bring in better competition. It only came when a top player like Varane came in and stayed fit and an emerging and tenacious player like Lisandro to bench him. All for it, but stop dismissing Lindelof like he's some Championship player who isn't good enough to be part of the squad.
Im not saying he’s a championship player but he is NOT good enough to be at Manchester United and this level of performance and personal errors should not be acceptable if we want to start winning trophies again
He is good enough, of course he is and he's in his optimal position as a squad player. After starting and playing in many domestic and European matches, he has that experience and understanding. He doesn't complain, trains hard, and has the right attitude to be part of this club.
Was he good enough to help win major trophies, no. And that's okay because he's now been overtaken, rightfully, by better players.
We will have to agree to disagree. As far as concerned he’s not good enough now or ever. And I would bet money that he will again mess up and you’ll all pile in here critical and then forgive him again and it will repeat into the day he is sold.
In my opinion we should be using the squad place to get players who may develop to replace players ultimately. Or, bringing in someone to learn from. We know Lindelofs highest level at this point and he’s not going to develop anymore and nobody is going to learn from him how to defend
That is true only for a young player slowly coming into playing squad. For experienced players, they are backup to the main player. They are meant to come in when main players are not available. Most positions demand backup players who don't fit your definition of "replacement".
And they cannot be as high profile as the main player. Else will not agree to play backup.
Off course we can get an experienced player to come into the rotation for CB, Varane will not stay fit for a full season. Lindelof is not good enough for the amount of games that will need someone to rotate in
Until this season Lindelof has not been a back up player - he's been in the team as first choice most of the time - average 40 games per season. You can't have a player as weak and useless as this and expect to win trophies.
Even if he's demoted to back up - an injury to Varane or Martinez and he's back in again. We won't win trophies with him in the team - surprisingly we haven't won any since he arrived.
Even if he's demoted to back up - an injury to Varane or Martinez and he's back in again. We won't win trophies with him in the team - surprisingly we haven't won any since he arrived.
That’s a very weird comment. We haven’t won any trophies with almost any player in this team, are all useless?
Maguire and Lindelof were the main CB pair two years ago when we finished second in the league (and went to the EL final). We conceded 44 goals and scored 73. Since then we’ve added Varane, Casemiro, Martinez, Sancho, Antony, Eriksen, Ronaldo, and more. Investments worth 100s of millions. Still, I am not convinced we will finish so much better this season. I am not even 100% sure we will concede less than 44 goals. But we’ll see, maybe I’m wrong and we finish this season with a couple of trophies.
Correlation and causation and all that.
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