The more you watch the first goal the worse it looks. I was mainly focused on McTominay ignoring the player with ball right next to him having time and space to make the pass. But yes you're right, just like AWB played someone onside last week, Lindelof plays Salah onside this time. Whats worse is he isnt even going in the same direction as Salah. He thinks the ball is going to go in front of him and gets it completely wrong. Not only that but his reaction to the ball being played behind him is terrible - if he turns to the right his momentum carries him further towards the goal and towards Salah. He turns to the left twice instead, stopping himself and giving Salah as much time as possible. This is pretty much the worst defending you can come up with in this scenario other than if Lindelof had got to the pass and and kicked the ball into Salah's path to give him the chance.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
The more you watch the first goal the worse it looks. I was mainly focused on McTominay ignoring the player with ball right next to him having time and space to make the pass. But yes you're right, just like AWB played someone onside last week, Lindelof plays Salah onside this time. Whats worse is he isnt even going in the same direction as Salah. He thinks the ball is going to go in front of him and gets it completely wrong. Not only that but his reaction to the ball being played behind him is terrible - if he turns to the right his momentum carries him further towards the goal and towards Salah. He turns to the left twice instead, stopping himself and giving Salah as much time as possible. This is pretty much the worst defending you can come up with in this scenario other than if Lindelof had got to the pass and and kicked the ball into Salah's path to give him the chance.
I really do not know what else can be said about Lindelof as a defender as no matter what Ole says the player is just not up to it and it amazes me how he is playing at this level.
He is not quick
He is not dominant in the air
He is not brave
He has not got good positional sense
He is not a threat to the opposition in set plays
I think it will take a long term injury to force Ole’s hand to regularly play Eric and Axel to realise this.
He is not quick
He is not dominant in the air
He is not brave
He has not got good positional sense
He is not a threat to the opposition in set plays
I think it will take a long term injury to force Ole’s hand to regularly play Eric and Axel to realise this.
I wasn't alive then. But fans seem to set the bar at Vida/Rio, when Johnsen, May and Berg were parts of a great team and none of them are better than Lindelof and co. But they did play behind a midfield that was formidable, something that we've not had for a long time, even though we've thrown an awful lot of money at the midfield.
I wasn't alive either by then either, man. I'm just saying, any United great team need at least one world class CB (not just "very good"). We don't have any now, unless you think Maguire is world class.
I think this is what happened.
Victor knows he got Salah close and when Milner comes towards him he realizes that he has to cover the middle and let Shaw take Salah. Milner then halts and turns away.
When Firminho gets the ball McT should not allow him to turn around so easily. Victor has his mind still on the inside where he thinks the pass will come. But no it's a perfect pass in between him and Shaw. Victor turns to late to try and beak the pass and it looks a bit weird cause he is late.
Really good play by Liverpool. I think Milners movement and Firminho let to turnaround was key.
For me.. Victor acted a bit stressed. Salah wasn't offside anyways but Victor made it easier for him. Shaw had time to get on inside of Salah but took a break and McT equally to blame for being inactive. Victor don't have time to check what his teammates are doing but decides to take the middle.
That said.. I prefer Bailly for tomorrow. And if he excel then he should get the chance for Arsenal.
Nobody is chasing you don't be a drama queen, the guy just called you out to be more objective and probably others think the same. The reality is that we all have players we like more than others and we obviously are influenced by that. To be fair you are actually a very thorough poster and write insightful posts regarding our CBs and especially Lindelof. I for one like a CB like Bailly more than someone like Lindelof, probably because I treasure more his qualities despite him being more prone to a feck up.
He must be good at something. We had a good defensive record last year and if you take away our nightmare lack of preseason start, we have a pretty good record this season too. We have 4 good centre backs.
What is he good at?
That's exactly what I said we didn't need 2 great defenders. I'm not so sure there are many world class defenders now, a lot of the lauded ones are vastly over rated. So praying the club somehow manage to buy 2 of them is pretty much the impossible dream. Improving the midfield unit is more pressing in my point of view, we struggle to keep possession, then our defenders come under more pressure.
I grew up with Bruce and Pallister so not sure what this means.
You’re right, I’ve just watched that again....I thought he was poor for the first goal but that’s just shocking.
Neither of whom were top class. So not sure why you're stating we need 2 top class defenders. Bruce & Pally were a very good partnership and had a very good midfield in front of them
And this will always be why I dislike Lindelofs style.
He is a safe player who would rather hope the opposition make a mistake, rather than getting there and dealing with it before danger arrives.
He should be either getting right in Firmino's face there, or holding the offside line and forcing them to play the perfect pass. Instead he goes back back back all the way into our box and does nothing to effect the game. He genuinely might as well not be there.
Yes if the ball comes to him he can clear it, yes he can make a tackle if the defender runs close to him - but unless that happens he's just a nothing defender.
The whole defensive line ends up back peddling instead of putting of forward pressure.
Bruce and Pallister were top players in the English league. Who were your top defenders running around at that time?
It's quite apparent the Lindelof agenda on here.
The Fulham goal, the caf was all over defending Bailly when he didnt read the game and the situation, blaming Maguire.
The 1st goal, McTominay and Pogba should be doing alot better than to allow Firminho turn and find a pass, as soon as he does that it is always difficult for a defender backtracking against an attacker who is going in behind. It was a well worked goal. Believe it or not, teams used to score against Ferdinand and Vidic too.
The Fulham goal, the caf was all over defending Bailly when he didnt read the game and the situation, blaming Maguire.
The 1st goal, McTominay and Pogba should be doing alot better than to allow Firminho turn and find a pass, as soon as he does that it is always difficult for a defender backtracking against an attacker who is going in behind. It was a well worked goal. Believe it or not, teams used to score against Ferdinand and Vidic too.
You're right that Mctominay should have closed down Firmino a lot sooner, but after that point there is only 1 danger and that's Salah. Lindelof has nobody inside of him he should know that if he's aware of his surroundings.
He should be moving towards Salah the moment Firmino get his head down to play the pass but he just doesn't react to the danger, and then ends up spinning around like he's lost? it's just strange defending all round.
If Bailly gets criticised so should he. People say Bailly is error prone but I can think of way more for Lindelof lately.
Okay, let me ask you a couple questions? Who is quicker? a fast forward running forward or a average speed CB who is running back?
Salah is brilliant at these runs, he knows exactly how to make these runs between the CB and FB, he hasn't won the golden boot all these years by being lucky.
Strange defending, a player is running in behind while you are running backwards... ofcourse he will look clumsy when he turns.
He'll never catch a break now
https://talksport.com/football/8235...pool-transfer-victor-lindelof-charlie-austin/
https://talksport.com/football/8235...pool-transfer-victor-lindelof-charlie-austin/
I'm not asking Lindelof to run backwards, i'm saying to step across into Salah's path and block the space between him and Shaw.
Firmino can only play that pass between him and Shaw otherwise Salah would never get onto it, so as a defender you need to read what the attacker wants to do and stop it.
He doesn't have to worry about covering Maguire's side as there is nobody there.
To make it even worse once the pass does reach him he ends up spinning around the wrong way like a lost dog chasing his tail. If he just turned his body towards Salah in the first place he wouldn't get his feet all mixed up, it was like seeing the reincarnation of Phil Jones.
Im not being funny but that was just terrible defending, McT should’ve got closer, I’m wondering if Carrick has been trying to get our midfield to defend like he did because McT did a great impression of it there, but then Lindelof? It was so poor, he should’ve got closer to Salah or cut the pass out, but really just get close to the player. It’s basic. Second goal is another example, he does nothing just drops off.
The article stated he had his heart set on Liverpool , so nothing to it really
Positional sense. One on ones. Spacial awareness. Interceptions. Concentration. Passing. Control.
How can we debate an issue when I have watched this player in most of his games and listed all the things he is not good at and most of those are essentials for a player to be at a top club?
I'm sorry I didn't tell you want you want to hear.
You do not agree and that is fair enough,
What do you want to debate?
Is he good positionally though? I seem to remember him losing Giroud and De Jong in our semi finals losses last season in fairly inexplicable mistakes (not knowing where the big guy in the box is). He's not very good at dealing with ball over his shoulder into the channel too.
He makes as many errors as Bailly quite frankly, the only difference is that Bailly's look absolutely kamikaze when they do happen.
Yes the midfield should have done better, but Lindelof shouldn't have played Salah onside in the first place.
I get the defending could be better, sometimes you have to just let it go, dissecting every goal to death.
That goal was more of good play from liverpool than errors from our defence. We all know we need one more top level CB, so going over Lindelof time and time again will not help him.
Lindelof will always be like "he was pretty decent bar one or two mistakes". Well if that´s the standard we should be aiming to, perhaps it´s a time to watch Newcastle United. He´s not of required level by a large margin, he´s just lucky boy that all of our players at his position seem to be made of glass. Hate to breakt it to you but a centreback who doesn´t like to defend and is only hard as nails in his head and on his teammates will never be good enough. It´s about player´s mentality and ability too. but you can´t for example just make Martial run and chase the ball because he simply doesn´t like to run. For a player with such talent and physique you can tell it´s a big shame he doesn´t work harder as he could be an absolute beast. Lindelof on the other hand doesn´t even have these abilities to look forward to. He´s just about average at absolutely everything. Average is not a word for Manchester United.
You will see when we finally strengthen here and Lindelof gets to be shipped out. Absolutely no top clubs in the world will be interested. He will go to some midtable Italian club and do just about well there. However with our luck and slow recruitment policy, he will stay here for long which is a worry. Just hope Bailly and Tuanzebe will stay fit and step up to keep him out of the team as long as they possible can.
It really is unfair. Imagine Tuanzebe or even Bailly got consistent run of 130 fecking games under their belt (going by transfermarkt) and being as average as Lindelof. Just stay fit guys. Ole also can´t be that dull not to recruit another top CB, especially releasing Rojo and Jones, there is certainly a space for another CB. Otherwise this can solely ruin our chances of a decent cup run or a title challenge. Wish we could be a bit more ruthless like City in this.
You will see when we finally strengthen here and Lindelof gets to be shipped out. Absolutely no top clubs in the world will be interested. He will go to some midtable Italian club and do just about well there. However with our luck and slow recruitment policy, he will stay here for long which is a worry. Just hope Bailly and Tuanzebe will stay fit and step up to keep him out of the team as long as they possible can.
It really is unfair. Imagine Tuanzebe or even Bailly got consistent run of 130 fecking games under their belt (going by transfermarkt) and being as average as Lindelof. Just stay fit guys. Ole also can´t be that dull not to recruit another top CB, especially releasing Rojo and Jones, there is certainly a space for another CB. Otherwise this can solely ruin our chances of a decent cup run or a title challenge. Wish we could be a bit more ruthless like City in this.
He's good at playing in a defense that kept clean sheets against Liverpool, City and Chelsea this season. One of the top 3 defenses in the league.
I don't think anybody is saying he's great but he's a good PL defender and we don't need 23 world class players to win things.
So you're looking for a defender who doesn't make mistakes. Good luck with that.
Can you read? I am looking for a defender who doesn´t make a mistake or two every game to cost us in almost every single match. I you can´t understand what´s the standard at a top club than I am afraid about your judgement. No player is flawless but being consistent and depandable is important. not consistently making mistakes though! We are not here to babysit Lindelof and iron his mistakes out until he´s 30. He had 130 games for United and played men´s football before. That´s quite remarkable how much he lated here for.
This situation reminds me of Darmian who wasn´t good enough form the off but played awful amount of games because we didn´t have anyone else up for the task. Those were the dark days...
Where were the mistakes at Anfield, or against City or Chelsea? Last season he was getting a lot of stick on United Hour so I went back and looked at the goals we conceded. It was hardly ever the fault of Lindelof. Go have a look.
You realise you asked that specific question, yes?
I dislike and find it unpleasant when people try to police my opinions. I 100% admit I am not objective and I have no intention to treat all players and teams out there objectively nor equally. I work professionally with experiments and statistics and fully understand the concept of objectivity, but football is not work. It is a passion for me and most others, and you can never treat a passion objectively. We can try to be reasonable, that's all. I like the way Lindelof an Maguire play as partners, and of course that will make me accept some mistakes I wouldn't accept with other players. People who want objective comments should not read posts at supporter forum, and maybe not involve themselves with football.
If I was objective I might have acknowledged that City deserved to win 2019 CL quarter final vs Spurs. But I dislike Pep with passion and instead I cherish the memory from the 92 minute.
i.imgur.com/z6yhmII.jpg
Yes. He's very good positionally. Don't you find it incredibly strange how a guy that is slow, weak, terrible in the air and positionally poor can inexplicably keep some of the best attacking teams in the world quiet?
No, he really doesn't. The difference is Bailly isn't called up on the small things Lindelof is. Take Fulham for example. There's a lot of similarities for us to take from it.
For their goal, Bailly completely switches off, leaves a gaping whole in the middle of our CBs, and Lookman meanders through the middle to put it in the net. The blame? Well, that was put at the feet of Maguire and Pogba by many. Even AWB was at considered at fault. Yet we have a remarkably similar situation against Liverpool, a team Lindelof successfully shut out half a week before, where the midfield puts no pressure whatsoever on the man on the ball, Salah runs off Shaw, leaving Lindelof completely exposed to a player running in behind at full pace. The majority of the blame is placed at Lindelofs feet. Why? What was the difference? Did Bailly get half a dozen pages questioning his ability? No. In fact, Ole was roundly criticized for putting Lindelof in the starting XI ahead of him, a game that Lindelof was defensively flawless in.
The Loftus-Cheek chance was also remarkably similar to Liverpools first goal. The ball was played into their CF, Bailly allowed him to receive the ball at feet, turn and play a pass in between Maguire and Shaw, and if we're being honest, RLC should've scored. If Lindelof had been Maguire or Bailly in that situation, it doesn't matter which one, he would've been criticized for either being too passive in closing the CF down, or for allowing RLF to get in behind. It genuinely baffles me why so many go out of their way to look so damn hard at Lindelof to find fault, while giving others a free pass.
When the ball is played Salah is level with Maguire and behind AWB. Shaw has already stopped tracking Salah who was within touching distance of him moments before.
This is pretty much what I guessed happened as well, Lindelof thought the pass wouldcome in to the centre and expected Shaw to cover the outside. When it didn't he was totally on the wrong foot and turned in the wrong direction in panic. I would guess that if Lindelof had covered the outside, the pass would have come in the centre with Salah running in behind instead. Firmino, not pressed or challenged at all, is that good and we all know Salah is that good.
. Also in replays, it looks like Salah woulnd't have been offside anyway, as Maguire and Salah are in line or at least so close only VAR could decide that.
This part is funny when you rewatch the goal
Milner’s on the halfway line almost when the ball is passed. He’s never anywhere near Lindelof.- Status