I must admit I couldn't see, at the beginning, the player we see now. He's not brilliant but he's decent. if you offered me Joe Gomez then I'd take him before Lindelöf but I'm happy with what his doing and not the least his development since he came to the club.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
He was immense today.
The Caf collective often opens up the contents of it's arse on him but Lindelof was very good today and has been very steady recently.
Calm and composed and never put a foot wrong. Very good performance by Victor.
Why Joe Gomez? What does he have to do with Lindelof?
He was very good today, I thought. I'm probably too unqualified to answer what's changed but the entire defence has been very good lately, it can't just be Matic alone because tactically they're very well organised too and cut out danger a lot better than earlier on in the season, we're limiting chances far better which has helped with the clean sheets (even if we did get a bit fortunate with a few goals being ruled out). The biggest improvement seems to be on set pieces as we used to concede from them frequently, now we clear everything.
Lindelöf has pretty much been playing at this level for most of two years now. Him and Maguire are jelling more and more, and the midfield is a lot better defensively these days. I’m most shocked by Bailly coming on for three games without having a blooper or getting injured. Having him and Tuanzebe as back up is a decent situation.
Plays in the same position?
It was a good performance yesterday, but he was terrible against Everton, with many other shaky performances in the last few months, so i don’t think he has been all that steady recently.
Credit where it's due, had a great one yesterday. The challenge for him now is to keep building on that and show he can hang in a back two.
He often performs very well against the best teams, but needs to improve against the average/bottom table teams. Might have looked a bit dodgy at moments but still he has 10 clean sheets and 7 conceded goals, in his last 15 games according to whoscored.
(However for some reason whoscored excluded the loss agaisn City in the cup, so 10 clean sheets out of 16 is more correct)
This - agree that set piece defence has improved a lot as well, we still run zonal marking and that can sometimes result in absurdities like Fred trying to stop Otamendi, but overall I'm not too worried about crosses into the box these days which is a great place to be. There was still some uncertainty in recent weeks with pacy physical strikers and direct balls over the top (esp. because we play such a high line), but for every goal we concede in that fashion, we'll rack up several more because of the pressure it lets us exert.
Maybe we need to pay some more attention to what Matic does but beyond dropping deep and acting as an additional CB at times, I've not seen much to suggest that he's extremely good at anticipating and cutting out danger.
I’ve slated him many times, but he had an excellent game yesterday. Credit where it’s due. I hope he builds on this performance.
I still have my doubts over him, because he really struggles with physical strikers in open space. City don’t have any of the sort and on top of it, we played a very defensive formation yesterday which helped him out. With 3 CBs, 1 dedicated DM and 2 quite defensive wingbacks.... we had a very congested and compact defence, something we won’t employ too often.
I still have my doubts over him, because he really struggles with physical strikers in open space. City don’t have any of the sort and on top of it, we played a very defensive formation yesterday which helped him out. With 3 CBs, 1 dedicated DM and 2 quite defensive wingbacks.... we had a very congested and compact defence, something we won’t employ too often.
No doubt he is a decent signing and a lot better than so many other ones in last 7 years but wondering if he is better than Jonny Evans next to Maguire?
What you guys think about having Evans over VL?
What you guys think about having Evans over VL?
It comes down to subjective opinions who is the best. I prefer Lindelof but have seen others who think Evans is better. But hard facts are that Lindelof is 6-7 years younger.
I loved this reaction too.
If I have to choose between "Lindelof" and "Evans in 2014", I'll definitely pick the latter. But if I have to choose between "Lindelof" and "Evans in 2020", I'll give Lindelof a chance as he's younger. Btw it's a shame that we let Evans go at the first place, he's always been a decent defender imo.
Evans and it's not even close. He's one of the best defenders in the league.
I like Lindelof think he’s a good defender but just don’t see him as a player you would win the league with.
Evans easily
No surprise that he's a better ball winning CB as most are better at that than Lindelof
However
Even in the areas that Lindelof is supposed to be a stand out player, Evans has been better than him this season. Its a bit of an insulting comparison to Evans this season
Evans easily
No surprise that he's a better ball winning CB as most are better at that than Lindelof
However
Even in the areas that Lindelof is supposed to be a stand out player, Evans has been better than him this season. Its a bit of an insulting comparison to Evans this season
Evans easily. Because WhoScored told me so...
That being said, I think Evans is great. Very underrated. Like Lindelof an intelligent defender who is good at taking the pace out of attacks and forcing the attacker at making the decision the defender prefer (you wont find a stat for that).
And at Man Utd he, also like Lindelof, made too many silly mistakes due to lack of focus. But I always felt we sold the wrong defender when we got rid of Evans over Jones/Smalling.
It’s a vey hypothetical question as one has his peak years ahead of him and one is probably at the top but soon on his way down.
And I think the opposite, which is kind of the definition of subjective. To say it’s not even close is a bit strange imo. They are both on similar level.
According to those stats, Evans is the worst CB in Leicester.Evans easily
No surprise that he's a better ball winning CB as most are better at that than Lindelof
However
Even in the areas that Lindelof is supposed to be a stand out player, Evans has been better than him this season. Its a bit of an insulting comparison to Evans this season
Soyuncu has been better yes
Morgan is statistically the worst CB for Leicester this season. Only 4 have been used
Has he though? He might be better on the ball but Evans is a much better defender.
Evans was so good, at one point i thought he's United future Captain. It's just he's so injury prone, and pretty slow.
But then, our standard was still high at that time. Heh..
But then, our standard was still high at that time. Heh..
Lindelöf is average. Evans is good (at Leicester). Neither is the solution. Hopefully Bailly can stay fit and improve further. Same for Tuanzebe. One of them two will hopefully grab the spot.
If you compare their stats from whoscored side by side:
Soyuncu has slightly better passing percent.
Soyuncu is also better in the air while Evans’ ability in the air is the same as Lindelof’s.
Soyuncu tackles more.
Both Evans and Soyuncu has are fans of clearing the ball.
Soyuncu fouls much more.
Could be missing something but from the stats Evans is worse than Soyuncu. In real life I don’t agree.
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There is unfortunately very little to indicate that any of Tuanzebe or Bailly would do it better than Lindelof, both in terms of offensive or defensive work. United have conceded 30 goals. Doubt it would have been any dramatic improvement even if Bailly or Tuanzebe had the fitness to stay away from the injury room.
And regarding fitness. The ability to stay fit is important for most positions, but especially for CBs where the communication between the 2-3 CB being used is so important.
What it really suggests to me is we should be perhaps in the market for a new CB next year, if we want to be a top, top club sometimes we have to be ruthless.
If you look strictly from a defensive POV (goals and chances conceded) it is basically Liverpool that is much better and no other team. There have also been many goals from silly mistakes which I hope can be avoided in the future. Some of them are brain fart kind of mistakes like DDG agaisnt Everton, and some are because the defence players are new together, or that some young players are being played like Tuanzebes give away against Arsenal. If DDG can improve I don’t know, but mistakes from not being used to play together has been improved the last 15 matches because of the continuity with AWB, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw playing more or less every game. And mistakes from promising academy players must always be allowed to happen.
Also the improvements in the midfield has given a more solid defence. I think I they can build on this and I doubt the clubs will have money for big investments next season (because of corona), and to be guaranteed to improve on Lindelof it would cost Maguire money. You would also start with a new CB pair which need time
I'm not the biggest fan of Lindelof but he has improved in the last 5 matches alongside the rest of our team.
He doesn't look weak but he doesn't particularly look strong on the eye the way Bailly does. Whilst Bailly has had his own problems as an individual- alot of those individual players have improved under ole when given time to adapt and if he is given that then I think he can easily over take Lindelof.
It's more to do with Maguire being so clearly better than every other defender at the club that the next step is to find that cohesive partnership of the centre backs where ones one's weaknesses is covered by another's strengths. For me Bailly's strengths like his physicality, aggression and speed cover Maguire's weaknesses in the same way that Rio &Vidic or Smalling or Blind covered some of each others other's weaknesses whilst making each others strengths stronger.
Lindelof and Maguire kind of seem to have similar weaknesses and similar strengths in comparison to Bailly who has different ones completely.
It's like playing two strikers upfront and kind of playing 2 target men upfront- you wonder maybe you should have two different types of striker instead to get the better use out of situations, because a single target man and a support striker has more variety to their attacking play than two target men doing the same thing.
He doesn't look weak but he doesn't particularly look strong on the eye the way Bailly does. Whilst Bailly has had his own problems as an individual- alot of those individual players have improved under ole when given time to adapt and if he is given that then I think he can easily over take Lindelof.
It's more to do with Maguire being so clearly better than every other defender at the club that the next step is to find that cohesive partnership of the centre backs where ones one's weaknesses is covered by another's strengths. For me Bailly's strengths like his physicality, aggression and speed cover Maguire's weaknesses in the same way that Rio &Vidic or Smalling or Blind covered some of each others other's weaknesses whilst making each others strengths stronger.
Lindelof and Maguire kind of seem to have similar weaknesses and similar strengths in comparison to Bailly who has different ones completely.
It's like playing two strikers upfront and kind of playing 2 target men upfront- you wonder maybe you should have two different types of striker instead to get the better use out of situations, because a single target man and a support striker has more variety to their attacking play than two target men doing the same thing.
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Yeah I agree with that. A good example of this was against LASK in the 2nd half where Maguire got pulled wide and tried to tackle, the guy knocked it passed him and then Bailly sped across and tidied it up.
I very much doubt Lindelof would have had the pace to get across like that, or actually confront him aggressively. My main gripe with Lindelof is he's far too plasid as a defender. He'll happily stand there with his hands behind his back and wait for the attacker to do something/make a mistake, rather than take control of the situation. While he might not look like he's making as many individual errors, IMO I like defenders to be on the front foot.
Before these couple of games with Bailly, I actually thought Maguire and Rojo was surprisingly good as well - it's for the same reason that Rojo defends in a different way to Maguire so when Maguire gets caught out, Rojo normally reads the game in a different, speedy but erratic way.
However- obviously Ole doesn't think Rojo is someone who can improve his game to a higher consistent level.
I'm okay with defenders needing the ability to beat a press - but both central defenders needing to be ball playing defenders has been a bit of an overrated tactic in football considering they play so close to each other in my opinion especially when you potentially risk that stable defensive partnership for a 5% increase in attack speed from the back that doesn't even happen against alot of teams that sit back against us.
Rio & Vidic, Smalling & Blind, are like ying & yang in their partnership's-
I get that more from Maguire and Bailly as a partnership than Maguire and Lindelof as you said because of the things like the weaknesses of speed, recovery, strength and just connection between the two.
I even feel Lindelof and Bailly are good as two to cover each others weaknesses but is only poor in partnership in terms of what we have as a squad because Maguire is too good not to be picked every game. Maguire has to be picked & we need to start thinking about his best partner.
So you could have Soyuncu or Evans for £30 million this summer and you wouldnt choose Soyuncu?
Thats pretty crazy
This is another thing for me, Lindelof just isn't actually that good on the ball. Whenever he's pressed he panics and either gives it to somebody else in a worse situation or just hoofs it.
He's not bad when he's got time and he can bring the ball forward and pick a pass, but certain matches/situations he just makes me feel uncomfortable watching him.
Definitely - its overrated on him in comparison to Maguire or Blind - hell I'm not even being rude but the ball against LSAK that Bailly did, Lindelof doesn't pull that off.
However, again I think this is just generally something you cant fully implement in the modern game & its something some managers over value. You can have a defender who beats a press or picks a pass but playing two at the back that try to dictate some sort of play leads to nervousness and loss of possession.
You look at the way Maguire takes the ball out from CB - you see him going on runs up to CDM and CM before making a pass against some weaker teams and Lindelof is clearly hesitant to do this. I think if Lindelof has the cover from a defender like Bailly instead of Maguire then you get better play from Lindelof - though Lindelof's ball playing ability is clearly overrated.
I see this at other clubs two - liverpool have two good CB'S ability to beat press and play balls but in my opinion one has to always take a back seat and defend whilst the other plays balls. Likewise at Madrid when Varane and Ramos were playing you'd maybe think that they were making all sort of attacking play work but I only ever saw it ever happening it from one whilst another took a back seat.
Theres ultimately too many opposition pressing at you to ever need to play two 'maguires or Lindelofs'. I've found it an overrated tactic by managers like Southgate and Ole who disregarded a player like Smalling for a player like John stones next to Maguire - for what exactly?
I think it's time we look at Bailly because he has a bit of a technical ability & he isnt scared - but more so he kind of sits back whilst maguire goes forward & then he has the speed and strength to scare the opposition if they come towards him. A bit like Vidic to the Ferdinand.
Lindelof doesn't have that.
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Maguire and Lindelöf atm has formed the core of one of the most stable defenses in Europe recently. That is with one and a half not that experienced full backs either side, and a very good but not too commanding GK behind them. Their similar strengths seems to have a synergic effect for the increasing well functioning of the team.
Bailly is Bailly, the Eric of defenders. First few games with us I thought ‘thats on CB sorted for ten years, world class level’. At his best, he’s that good. If he grew into a consistent, consistently fit version of his best self, he’s a no brainer first choice, but we’ve mever seen that for more than two-three games in a row. So until that happens, I’m very happy to have Lindelöf providing us with the consistency.
And I agree, in my opinion- Lindelof like Shaw, Fred, Matic, Martial has improved his game on an individual level due to Ole's 'freedom hardworking tactics' and this has made our whole team improve a level due to our individual improvement first.
Theres something kind of non complex about the way Ole plays football - the same reason alot of us were talking about how we looked uncoached, but I believe the players get an ability to play to their strengths more in doing so by maybe not playing football the way a club like City or Liverpool play in such a super cohesive but mind boggling complex way.
I just see it as Bailly's turn to now individually improve now & if he does do that - he makes our team stronger because he covers some of maguires weaknesses more than Lindelof does.
Evans is like 10 years older so for me I would chose Soyuncu any day. But based only on performance, I will be honest, I haven’t watched them enough to evaluate who is the best. When I watch certain teams I pay extra attention to certain players. Soyuncu is not such a player. If you say he is much better I don’t have knowledge to agree or disagree.
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