Another very good game. I hope people will soon start to appreciate what a classy defender he is.
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It's easy to just talk without proof. When I asked you about example it means legit example not just things that you made up to suit your argument.
@A-man is not wrong. It's a standard tenet of defending, when the ball comes down Lindelof's side he challenges and Maguire/AWB cover, and vice versa when it goes down Maguire's side. The nearest CB always challenges and the full back or other CB covers. It's how it's supposed to happen. Aerial balls are sent towards Lindelof more often because he is not as strong in the air as Maguire, so that's why you think they cover for him more often.
Honestly, I am not going to spend time on going through old matches to prove anything, as I can live my life perfectly well whatever opinion you have. If you are seriously interested in finding a sequence where Lindelof covers for another player it’s just to start look yourself. If not, I don’t care enough to do the job for you.
You missed the whole discussion. That’s not what the issue here.
He thinks Lindelof has been good this season. On the other hand, I think he’s been poor. Making too many mistakes & errors and some of goals we conceded also came from Lindelof‘s errors and it could be worse as we could conceded more from his direct mistake if Bissaka didn’t cover him up which I gave two clear sets of example against Watford & City in previous post. You want video clip to make it even more legit that I’m not just saying something ”what I think”?
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I told you that I would appreciate it if you do, it doesn’t mean I‘m forcing you to do it. However, if you are insisting to keep on and on with the discussion then you should find something to backup your statement not just talk with no proof. I gave you two clear set example when Bissaka had to cover Lindelof‘s mistake, I expect the same quality of post if you are going to reply to that post.
Most of the goals we have conceded have come from individual errors, and not just from Lindelof. It's a problem but overall we have improved how we play and Lindelof is a key reason for that. The defensive organisation has been much better on the whole this season because we have players capable of playing as a unit, covering each other and controlling the ball. When we were relying on players with poor awareness and ball skills like Smalling and Jones we couldn't do that. Lindelof might not be aggressive enough in how he plays but it will not be easy to find somebody better than him without disrupting the defence.
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What I said was I am not going to go through old matches for you but almost every time Maguire has lost a header when he has pushed forward, Lindelof has been behind to clear the situation. Far off his normal position, because it is his job to cover for Maguire in that situation.
Of course it would be worse if the other defenders didn’t cover for him. Thats part of the job for all defenders: If one defender misses a tackle, a header or a pass, someone else cover. Like we saw AWB did when Williams gave away the ball yesterday.
What I said was I am not going to go through old matches for you but almost every time Maguire has lost a header when he has pushed forward, Lindelof has been behind to clear the situation. Far off his normal position, because it is his job to cover for Maguire in that situation.
What are you arguing to my statement? What about you re-read my posts again and tell me what are you arguing here? Because I don’t get the point you are trying to make that related to my post.
I’ll remind you again, My point here is regarding to the individual performance not about team performance and one of the individual performance that I would like to specify is Lindelof, not other players.
Those are the biggest improvements this season, fully agree.That’s part of the reasons why United haven’t lost to any PL match against top 8 teams. They can stay calm under pressure and move around the ball.
The problem has been against bottom 10 teams, but if they continue to play like yesterday I believe they will also win the “easier” matches.
I think some people confuse cooperation and working as a unit with “babysitting”, can’t handle him on his own”, etc.
You cant run the ball past a player running away from you
List of CBs in the premier league who attempt the least tackles per 90 mins
So every 2 games he has attempted a tackle at some point. Mings and Lascelles are two players that have been dribbled past 1 time this season
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Lindelof makes individual errors as do all the others in our team. However we would be a far less effective team without the style of play that he enables us to use. Even one player without tactical awareness or ability on the ball means the whole unit has to change the way we play. If we replace him it needs to be with an equally capable footballer who does not makes the same mistakes, and that is not going to be easy.
You cant run the ball past a player running away from you
List of CBs in the premier league who attempt the least tackles per 90 mins
So every 2 games he has attempted a tackle at some point. Mings and Lascelles are two players that have been dribbled past 1 time this season
Probably worth mentioning the stats of a couple of other defenders for comparison:
Rio Ferdinand - 0.57
Paolo Maldini - 0.56
Number of tackles means feck all without context.
In other word what you just said is like saying sky is blue.
It's easy to say "that's part of the job for all defenders". The issue here is that you seem to either ignore or have no idea what kind of mistake the guy had made, it's not type of major mistake that defenders should keep doing it 10-20 times in a season to be called "good". For example:
You are not answering my question bro.
Let me re-post the question again to you.
What are you arguing to my statement? What about you re-read my posts again and tell me what are you arguing here? Because I don’t get the point you are trying to make that related to my post.
Replacing Lindelof is not hard if you are aware type of mistakes he made.
I see you have gone and found some clips!
just realise your constant asking of proof from posters is really boring and doesn’t advance the conversation.Most people don’t have the time or inclination to trawl videos to provide someone in the internet of ‘proof’ of their opinion.
You do realise that VVD is in your list with .1 more tackles per 90 right? I assume you're of the opinion that he's shite as well?You cant run the ball past a player running away from you
List of CBs in the premier league who attempt the least tackles per 90 mins
So every 2 games he has attempted a tackle at some point. Mings and Lascelles are two players that have been dribbled past 1 time this season
You're being intensely boring here. Do you honestly believe that AWB and Maguire have made zero defensive errors this season? Honestly?
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I'm shitting on the stat that he hasnt been beaten this season. Mings and Lascelles have also played plenty of games and have been beaten once each. They also make very few tackles and I dont think thats an impressive stat for them either.
Making very few tackles alone doesnt make someone a bad CB. But it does show someone is far more likely to have a stat where they have barely or not been beaten by a dribble all season. The more you attempt to do something, the more likely that at some point you'll make a mistake.
Not being beaten all season would only be impressive from an aggressive CB who tries to win the ball plenty of times. Thats the opposite of Lindelof
Don't you notice people in here like you for example love to make argument. For example this post of yours is not related to Lindelof and you posted it to argue with me.
You don't need clips or videos for evidence. You can use stats or name the games or something else. Most people don't have time to find clips, no doubt about it but if you can't defend your statement then you shouldn't keep replying the post and keep going circle around endlessly trying to argue to someone who can provide something.
I never say such a thing. Can you please quoted it for me?
In almost 2000 minutes of football, as a defender, it's impressive regardless. I do see where you're coming from of course though.
If you're calling Lindelof shite for making defensive errors, surely Maguire and AWB are also shite?
No, I said he's been bad as he's making too many major defensive errors. Do you think Maguire & AWB made as many major defensive errors as Lindelof?
Yes, especially Maguire. None of the 3 have made a defensive error leading to a goal though, which is obviously the most important thing.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
Major defensive error doesn't always mean leading to a goal. It can be directly involved with the goal, indirectly involved with the goal & not involved with the goal. It's error that defender shouldn't be making for many times. For example the two clips I posted above, giving the ball away cheaply in dangerous area, are they not major defensive errors to you?
He was dispossessed once by the best player in the best pressing team in the country and misplaced a pass? I see that happen to almost every top defender and yes, I have seen both AWB and Maguire do both this season.
I see that happened as well even to Rio Ferdinand, but you don't see it happen many times to top defenders. In contrast to Lindelof.
Ironically it seems that you haven't noticed but two clips that I posted is actually supposedly his strength as "ball playing", everyone know that Lindelof's weakness is his header, aerial duel and when dealing with strong players.
The point what I tried to tell you in my previous post was that major mistakes don't always mean mistakes that lead to goals, the two clips are just ones of example of those major mistakes.
Only very few players can look good in a poor side. Also poor players can look good when they are in good sides. The problem is I have no idea of what some of the current Utd players are including Lindelof are? What I do know is players that are WC like Pogba struggle to consistently show it here.
He's a good player imo, better than he sometimes show and in right team that plays procession football would look very good. The problem is on here people take a forensic approach to back up their argument yet ignore the times when it doesn't. Not sure heading is his weakness, just seems to have become one of those things that's become a 'truism'. His pass completion percentage is high too. Also let's not compare him to others in the prem as others don't play in an Utd shirt. It's very different for lots of reasons.....
He's a good player imo, better than he sometimes show and in right team that plays procession football would look very good. The problem is on here people take a forensic approach to back up their argument yet ignore the times when it doesn't. Not sure heading is his weakness, just seems to have become one of those things that's become a 'truism'. His pass completion percentage is high too. Also let's not compare him to others in the prem as others don't play in an Utd shirt. It's very different for lots of reasons.....
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Pretty sure they have. Palace goal at home has to be a defensive error no
I remember I had argument with a poster regarding the number of goalkeeper error and he used the PL website to prove me wrong which is questionable because the website itself didn't count that supposedly error as error. It's always shit one to use as stats.
Not entirely sure, they're the official premier league stats so I'm basing what I said off of them. Fortunately I don't remember every goal we've conceded.
Prove that he does it any more regularly than Maguire and AWB then.
Come on. How can you not remember the goal that Ayew scored from a 178 cm Schlupp won header against Lindelof?
I just named you another shit show that Lindelof made against Crystal Palace and I can give you extra bonus as reminder of what he did against City few days ago and also when he ran away from his player that led to Arsenal's first goal. Your turn, give me some example to level the mistakes that I just named.
As a change, I agree with @Ekeke
I mean it’s good Lindelof hasn’t been dribbled, but this kind of stat also shows what type of defender he is. Lindelof doesn’t dwfend with tackles but more following the attacker.
The best are defenders like VVD who master both ways.
I mean it’s good Lindelof hasn’t been dribbled, but this kind of stat also shows what type of defender he is. Lindelof doesn’t dwfend with tackles but more following the attacker.
The best are defenders like VVD who master both ways.
Agree. I think some players that are signed who either weren't the player fans wanted made worse when they started poorly, it's hard for fans to see beyond that. They seem to be anchored there and will always focus on what he can't do or mistakes yet not when they do things right. Where are the clips with the blocks he made against City away? The vultures will always be circling him, Fred et al.
To be honest I think Maguire is just as bad
Seems a little unfair to compare a CB for Utd against the best in the world currently. The best do but not sure anyone is saying he's the best. I think if he played in a side Leicester, he'd look good. Johnny Evans was terrible here and Harry looked better in a Leicester shirt. Lindelof is probably a 40m CB playing for a team that currently is his level. When we have VVD type of quality players, then it will be more apparent about other players levels.
The issue here is that opposition player would love him to get closed to or follow them as he lacks of pace & strength to bully attackers. On the other hand, VVD has the pace & strength to make it effective.
I wished he could have done the same thing to the Arsenal's first goal though, can't believe he didn't follow his player and chose the stupid decision by playing offside.
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