[elánius]

I stopped reading after first sentence. When someone starts his speech with that sentence i know that he is the person with whom any debating is useless.
But you just keep doing that. People here will love you.

Well, I already told you that we have nothing to talk about, so you are only repeating exactly what I wrote (in your first sentence btw). :-)

Would you talk with someone that would start the debate with 1 + 1 = 3? No, and neither would I. Btw I dont care about peoples love, I just hate ignorance in general. So I realyl dont like when someone praises Lindelof, Lingard (used to be the case years ago, same as Cleverley), Mctominay, Pereira....... Time will always show the truth, same happened to Lindelof after his undeserved second place at POTY awards. Have a nice day. :-)

 

[11101]

There's a difference between 'commiting' to a defensive action e.g going straight into a tackle/sticking a foot in and being two arm lengths away because let's be honest Lindefof is not strong enough to go toe to toe and not fast enough to be able to go in a foot race. His type of defending/sheppherding is basically a square pass or going back towards your own goal i.e passive and 'safe' except it isn't safe, it's literally backwards because you're allowing the situation to happen rather than stand up to it.

But getting touch tight to a quick winger like Trezeguet is just asking for him to take you on, and as last man you cant do that. You need to keep your distance and try to slow him down/force him away from goal until the defence recovers. I don't want to alert the fanclub, but lunging in there is something Smalling would do. Sometimes you'll make a great tackle for the highlight reel, but usually you're left on your arse with the attacker 1v1 with the keeper.

 

[Ekeke]

I stopped reading after first sentence. When someone starts his speech with that sentence i know that he is the person with whom any debating is useless.
But you just keep doing that. People here will love you.

Christ you're relentlessly misinformed on football

 

[Catania]

The hate he gets in here.
To be honest I think you made your defence worse this summer. Not becouse of Lindelöf.
But becouse you payd 80 mil for a defender that is worse at defending then smalling.
(And now you want to buy a new cb that fit him better).
Smalling/lindelöf would been enugh for top 4 if you put those 80 mil on a new midfield insted.

Funny to see the critic about positioning, to me it looks like man utd is trying to play zon defends.
Exept your 80mil defender that always chose to man mark who ever is closes to him and fallow him all over the pitch, setting off your whole defend.

 

[Andersonson]

He's not a bad defender. He's midtable premier league quality. Just like many other of our players.

He's on the same level as the following defenders:
Michael Keane
Tyrone Mings
Jonny Evans
And many others.

It wouldnt make a big difference had we had theese players instead. But Lindelof has the potential to become something though. He's good with his feet and reads the game well. But he's a bit weak in certain games. Is he any better than Smalling for instance? Not so sure. Depends on how you approach games I would say.

But with the way we play now, under OGS, I would rather have Smalling. A bit high line with counter-attacking play suits Smalling, as he is faster and stronger and his passing is OKish. Its not like we play posession based football, so a "ballplaying CB" isnt much of use tbf.

 

[Eleven-Eighteen]

Man when he made that one lofted assist from defence straight into the box end of last season (can't remember against which team) i really thought he had finally come into this own. And i thought finally one of Mourinho's defensive signings will come good.

Alas

 

[Bestietom]

I Think he has gone back this season and Tuanzebe should be tried instead.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Is he any better than Smalling for instance? Not so sure.

Not sure at all either.

But Smalling is just another player who has now - predictably - gained status as someone our idiotic manager let go, and who is now tearing it up elsewhere (nevermind context - he's doing well for Roma, so he's brilliant). See Lukaku and - even - Fellaini.

To be clear, I actually rate Smalling - to a degree. I think Ole rated him to a degree too - but he wasn't willing to make him a default starter, which is something Smalling himself wanted at this stage in his career: a deal was possible, so he was let go on loan. No hard feelings, etc. Smalling is five years older than Lindelöf too.

 

[sourdough satellite]

Well, I already told you that we have nothing to talk about, so you are only repeating exactly what I wrote (in your first sentence btw). :-)

Would you talk with someone that would start the debate with 1 + 1 = 3? No, and neither would I. Btw I dont care about peoples love, I just hate ignorance in general. So I realyl dont like when someone praises Lindelof, Lingard (used to be the case years ago, same as Cleverley), Mctominay, Pereira....... Time will always show the truth, same happened to Lindelof after his undeserved second place at POTY awards. Have a nice day. :-)

McTominay gets a lot of praise here... I can see you're gonna have a grand old time with some of the posters here...

 

[Ekeke]

Not sure at all either.

But Smalling is just another player who has now - predictably - gained status as someone our idiotic manager let go, and who is now tearing it up elsewhere (nevermind context - he's doing well for Roma, so he's brilliant). See Lukaku and - even - Fellaini.

To be clear, I actually rate Smalling - to a degree. I think Ole rated him to a degree too - but he wasn't willing to make him a default starter, which is something Smalling himself wanted at this stage in his career: a deal was possible, so he was let go on loan. No hard feelings, etc. Smalling is five years older than Lindelöf too.

The feck

What has Fellaini done in a decent league since he left United?

Get out of here

Lukaku and Smalling are doing well away from the crazy house

 

[Denis79]

I want some more Oomph! from him. Needs to get more aggressive (in the right way) and not be afraid to take the initiative in physical challenges.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The feck

What has Fellaini done in a decent league since he left United?

Get out of here

Lukaku and Smalling are doing well away from the crazy house

Nothing, of course - but he is another player people are now claiming we shouldn't have moved on. Fair enough, he's not in the same category as Smalling/Lukaku, so I probably shouldn't have included him in the post above.

Point is obvious, though: people see players doing well in other leagues, in vastly different circumstances, and conclude that it was a mistake to let them go.

Which makes zero sense. Away from the crazy house? Yeah, sure - but also away from a completely different league, one that happens to be considerably harder to play in than the current Serie A: I'm not one to claim the Serie A is shite, but it's obviously below the PL in overall quality at the moment.

Even if you disregard league strength, it makes no sense to question the wisdom in letting players go based on how they perform elsewhere. Lukaku and Smalling wanted the move - and they were never going to be players the manager would've included in his plans as default starters. And - crucially - you simply cannot regard the latter as an insane choice by said manager, unless you overrate the players in question to a ridiculous degree. Even if Ole is the worst manager ever, his decision not to make Smalling and Lukaku default starters is perfectly understandable.

 

[ghagua]

If you think his positioning is very good, we have absolutly nothing to talk about, you just dont understand football, its simple as that. He is out of position almost every time we are pressured, but how can you dribble a player that doesnt try to stop you and is afraid to defend? And you talk about Smalling who loves defending and is like ten times better at it than this piece of wood? This is really sad.

Last season ManUnited worked very hard on Lindelofs PR, like this "iceman" nonsense or highlights of him kicking the ball over the stadium and it obviously worked on people like you are, but believe me, Lindelof is the worst CB we have had for last 20 years. Maybe even more, but last 20 years I follow them very closely. Theres a reason we had the worst defensice record last year with Lindelof as our first choice as a CB.

Shocking how many people fail to see this. To defend such a poor player is beyond logical.

 

[Ekeke]

Nothing, of course - but he is another player people are now claiming we shouldn't have moved on. Fair enough, he's not in the same category as Smalling/Lukaku, so I probably shouldn't have included him in the post above.

Point is obvious, though: people see players doing well in other leagues, in vastly different circumstances, and conclude that it was a mistake to let them go.

Which makes zero sense. Away from the crazy house? Yeah, sure - but also away from a completely different league, one that happens to be considerably harder to play in than the current Serie A: I'm not one to claim the Serie A is shite, but it's obviously below the PL in overall quality at the moment.

Even if you disregard league strength, it makes no sense to question the wisdom in letting players go based on how they perform elsewhere. Lukaku and Smalling wanted the move - and they were never going to be players the manager would've included in his plans as default starters. And - crucially - you simply cannot regard the latter as an insane choice by said manager, unless you overrate the players in question to a ridiculous degree. Even if Ole is the worst manager ever, his decision not to make Smalling and Lukaku default starters is perfectly understandable.

If he was here, he'd have had a very good chance of coming in with Lindelof's poor form like he has done every season when he hasnt started first choice. He's seen off every other CB the past couple of seasons.

He'd also have loved playing with AWB at right back instead of Young who he had to cover every week. And Maguire who can head a ball next to him and do the passing play people were so obsessed with

 

[A-man]

He'd also have loved playing with AWB at right back instead of Young who he had to cover every week. And Maguire who can head a ball next to him and do the passing play people were so obsessed with

I think that’s true. Smalling is not a player you’d want to cover for others, he should be able to be unleashed a meet the ball higher up. That’s also why I don’t think he’s a good match with Maguire, who is similar in that aspect.

 

[Fussmeister]

Other leagues are slower and more tactial and more suited for VNL. EPL is to fast and physical for him. I rate VNL and would love to see him in la liga or seria a.

And i still think he and smalling looked better then him and maguire

 

[Ekeke]

I think that’s true. Smalling is not a player you’d want to cover for others, he should be able to be unleashed a meet the ball higher up. That’s also why I don’t think he’s a good match with Maguire, who is similar in that aspect.

Maguire tends to be better at holding his ground with strength to win the ball in the air and Smalling has good defensive instincts and speed, perfect for covering any balls that are headed on because Maguire didnt win it.

 

[A-man]

Maguire tends to be better at holding his ground with strength to win the ball in the air and Smalling has good defensive instincts and speed, perfect for covering any balls that are headed on because Maguire didnt win it.

I’m not saying that Smalling’s bad at covering. But if Smalling gets that role, to be the covering CB, it takes away one of Smalling’s biggest strengths. Lindelof has that role now. He is always last man and covering a large area. And Maguire needs someone to always cover for him.

 

[Ekeke]

I’m not saying that Smalling’s bad at covering. But if Smalling gets that role, to be the covering CB, it takes away one of Smalling’s biggest strengths. Lindelof has that role now. He is always last man and covering a large area. And Maguire needs someone to always cover for him.

There's always times when you need a 2nd CB who is good at dealing with the ball in the air. Maguire/1 CB cant deal with everything. Ferdinand even had to make headers occasionally next to Vidic

 

[criticalanalysis]

If you think his positioning is very good, we have absolutly nothing to talk about, you just dont understand football, its simple as that. He is out of position almost every time we are pressured, but how can you dribble a player that doesnt try to stop you and is afraid to defend? And you talk about Smalling who loves defending and is like ten times better at it than this piece of wood? This is really sad.

Last season ManUnited worked very hard on Lindelofs PR, like this "iceman" nonsense or highlights of him kicking the ball over the stadium and it obviously worked on people like you are, but believe me, Lindelof is the worst CB we have had for last 20 years. Maybe even more, but last 20 years I follow them very closely. Theres a reason we had the worst defensice record last year with Lindelof as our first choice as a CB.

To support your point see below.

But getting touch tight to a quick winger like Trezeguet is just asking for him to take you on, and as last man you cant do that. You need to keep your distance and try to slow him down/force him away from goal until the defence recovers. I don't want to alert the fanclub, but lunging in there is something Smalling would do. Sometimes you'll make a great tackle for the highlight reel, but usually you're left on your arse with the attacker 1v1 with the keeper.

The sequence starts at the 4min mark.



The replay at 4:20 tells you all you need to know. Criminally passive. No pressure on Trezeguet's first touch and lets him waltz in to the edge of the box whilst being two arm lengths away i.e not close enough to do anything. He doesn't need to be touch tight or make a tackle but he should be forcing him out wide towards the corner or making it tough for him to even travel that far. If Trezeguet had crossed to the far post or brought it back to his other foot (for a cross), there was a runner in the 6 box. Imagine he had done that and they scored. The 'blame' would have been on Mcguire,/AWB who were already chasing back.

Anytime you let a player very comfortabley take a first touch in any area of the pitch, you've lost half a yard already.

Look I get it, highlighting examples like these are nitpicking but it's just atypical of Lindelof's 'intelligent' *cough cowardly* defending.

 

[A-man]

To support your point see below.



The sequence starts at the 4min mark.



The replay at 4:20 tells you all you need to know. Criminally passive. No pressure on Trezeguet's first touch and lets him waltz in to the edge of the box whilst being two arm lengths away i.e not close enough to do anything. He doesn't need to be touch tight or make a tackle but he should be forcing him out wide towards the corner or making it tough for him to even travel that far. If Trezeguet had crossed to the far post or brought it back to his other foot (for a cross), there was a runner in the 6 box. Imagine he had done that and they scored. The 'blame' would have been on Mcguire,/AWB who were already chasing back.

Anytime you let a player very comfortabley take a first touch in any area of the pitch, you've lost half a yard already.

Look I get it, highlighting examples like these are nitpicking but it's just atypical of Lindelof's 'intelligent' *cough cowardly* defending.

It's not nipicking, more strange. You are driving some campaign/hypothesis claiming Lindelof's a coward etc, and of all the things you can find on YouTube, you pick this clip as a proof of his cowardness.

United loses possession and there is a quick counter. Trezeuget runs diagonally in behind Maguire and recieves the ball. Lindelof tracks him and is forcing him out to an impossible angle. Always staying with a little distance and covering in a way there is no way he could be dribbled, the only option Trezeuget has is to shoot from this poor angle. His shot can't be any better from that angle and distance, but it's never any problem for DDG.

Lindelof's first half was weak, but this situation was handled well. I don't see how this is cowardly defending.


(Now I am assuming you mean "typical" and not "atypical". Correct?)

 

[Chesterlestreet]

If he was here, he'd have had a very good chance of coming in with Lindelof's poor form like he has done every season when he hasnt started first choice. He's seen off every other CB the past couple of seasons.

I don't disagree wildly with that - like I said above, I actually rate Smalling to some extent.

But the fact remains that he wanted the move himself. It was a clear cut situation: either assure him that he'll be a starter - or allow him to leave. I don't think the decision - on Ole's part - was particularly crazy.

 

[Ekeke]

I don't disagree wildly with that - like I said above, I actually rate Smalling to some extent.

But the fact remains that he wanted the move himself. It was a clear cut situation: either assure him that he'll be a starter - or allow him to leave. I don't think the decision - on Ole's part - was particularly crazy.

He was told he'd have less games. Meaning Lindelof would get more games. He could have stayed to prove Ole wrong, but he got what he considered a nice offer to have the chance to play in Italy and have a new challenge instead. Theres something to be said for feeling important and valued, if he felt that way he probably wouldn't be going out on loan.

I did suggest last season when people kept saying Smalling should be a 3rd choice that he'll get better offers than that from other clubs. Turns out it was Roma instead of Arsenal, but who knows who comes in for him at the end of the season if he doesnt tie up a move with Roma now.


Playing for 5th placed Roma in Serie A might even be considered better than playing for 10th placed Manchester United in England to some players

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Theres something to be said for feeling important and valued, if he felt that way he probably wouldn't be going out on loan.

Yes - I agree. But the point - as far as I'm concerned - is that neither party is to blame here. Smalling wanting more minutes (not wanting to go into the season as a designated non-starter) is perfectly understandable. But Ole deeming him somewhat surplus to requirements isn't unfathomable either. For me, Smalling is a good player who has his uses - but he isn't a player you go out of your way to please, or accommodate, in any way. And he's thirty. Lindelöf is 25, which means that he's at a stage where most central defenders have gained enough experience to be reliable starters (but with room for development/improvement still).

It boils down to how highly you rate them, respectively, I suppose. For me, Smalling simply isn't good enough to make it a silly decision on Ole's part. Lindelöf may not be good enough, ultimately, either - but there you go. Perhaps Tuanzebe will have replaced him as the default starter by the end of the season (whether Ole remains in charge or not) - we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[A-man]

He was told he'd have less games. Meaning Lindelof would get more games. He could have stayed to prove Ole wrong, but he got what he considered a nice offer to have the chance to play in Italy and have a new challenge instead. Theres something to be said for feeling important and valued, if he felt that way he probably wouldn't be going out on loan.

I did suggest last season when people kept saying Smalling should be a 3rd choice that he'll get better offers than that from other clubs. Turns out it was Roma instead of Arsenal, but who knows who comes in for him at the end of the season if he doesnt tie up a move with Roma now.


Playing for 5th placed Roma in Serie A might even be considered better than playing for 10th placed Manchester United in England to some players

If I were Smalling I would find it a bit unfair to be degraded to 4th choice, especially since he has performed well over many seasons. OK if Ole preferred Lindelof, at least he had played 2 seasons and Ole had the chance to evaluate him, but it must have been tough to see a relatively unproven Tuanzebe getting the spot ahead of him for free.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If I were Smalling I would find it a bit unfair to be degraded to 4th choice, especially since he has performed well over many seasons. OK if Ole preferred Lindelof, at least he had played 2 seasons and Ole had the chance to evaluate him, but it must have been tough to see a relatively unproven Tuanzebe getting the spot ahead of him for free.

Maybe Ole told him that he is even behind Jones . Imagine Smalling's face if Ole said that to him. And i think that might really happened. Ole gave Phil new contract after all

 

[Ballache]

 

[Strats]

He was excellent tonight.

 

[Giant Midget]

Not convinced. Seems like he’s all at sea sometimes. Smalling is a far better defender

 

[Based Adnan]

Excellent today. Positioning is top class and saved us multiple times.

 

[Based Adnan]

 

[Fussmeister]

Not convinced. Seems like he’s all at sea sometimes. Smalling is a far better defender

He was good today. No need to bring in smalling. Time to get over that relationship and accept it

 

[He'sRaldo]

He's getting braver and more aggressive, I like it. Just needs to improve his aerial ability and he'll be solid.

He's done well the past few weeks.

 

[AltiUn]

He was good today. No need to bring in smalling. Time to get over that relationship and accept it

Well said.

 

[kundalini]

I thought he did well. A bit surprised that we were able to restrict them to only a few dangerous moments, given the talent in their attack.

 

[MikeKing]

He's getting braver and more aggressive, I like it. Just needs to improve his aerial ability and he'll be solid.

He's done well the past few weeks.

Noticed that too. Don't think he has been good the past weeks, but he had a really good game against Spurs no doubt about it.

Regarding Lindelof being a bit of a coward or without the slur just not showing enough fight and guts in certain situations. I noticed in this game he got a slap to the face from Son whilst trying to block a shot, and he looked confused after that and kinda lost his man there... however it looked like he felt like a pussy maybe after that because he went in unnecessarily tough in a few duels following that. It's important. He needs to continue to do that because he is a CB and often he gets treated like he is not even there and targeted by attackers every game. It is important to not lose your concentration from confrontations and against Spurs he didn't.

He also went in to tackle when the situation presented itself instead of fumbling away the opportunity and back up, like he has been doing a lot this season in similar situations.

A few weird passes that caused confusion is to be forgiven when the all-around defensive performance is good. I think this should be his level though. Any worse than this on a consistent basis and his inherent weaknesses will always hold him back.

 

[lRed]

Happy to see him grow in confidence into the season game after game.
Unfairly criticized, nearly abused, him and Maguire will come good together, they are in my opinion complementary.

 

[MikeKing]

But getting touch tight to a quick winger like Trezeguet is just asking for him to take you on, and as last man you cant do that. You need to keep your distance and try to slow him down/force him away from goal until the defence recovers. I don't want to alert the fanclub, but lunging in there is something Smalling would do. Sometimes you'll make a great tackle for the highlight reel, but usually you're left on your arse with the attacker 1v1 with the keeper.

You're actually advocating for defenders to not engage in tackles to win the ball because "they might end up on the floor if they do". Weirdest thing I've read in a while. How about being a good tackler and win the ball, so you can turn it into a counter attack instead? It is very important skill for a defender to be able to do from time to time, like maybe use your strength to offset a player, or out pace opponents so you get the ball and can start a counter. You must be happy with how we look currently because we play with 4 defenders passing the ball forward then immediately runs the whole way back, really deep in our own half every time we lose it.

Would be nice if we could win the ball high up the field to continue our attacks once in a while to keep momentum. Hard thing to do without getting the ball back though.

 

[criticalanalysis]

It's not nipicking, more strange. You are driving some campaign/hypothesis claiming Lindelof's a coward etc, and of all the things you can find on YouTube, you pick this clip as a proof of his cowardness.

United loses possession and there is a quick counter. Trezeuget runs diagonally in behind Maguire and recieves the ball. Lindelof tracks him and is forcing him out to an impossible angle. Always staying with a little distance and covering in a way there is no way he could be dribbled, the only option Trezeuget has is to shoot from this poor angle. His shot can't be any better from that angle and distance, but it's never any problem for DDG.

Lindelof's first half was weak, but this situation was handled well. I don't see how this is cowardly defending.


(Now I am assuming you mean "typical" and not "atypical". Correct?)

Thanks, yes that was typo, it should have been 'typical'.

If you think Lindelof's defending was forcing Trezeuget to an 'impossible' angle then we'll just have to agree to disagree. He wasn't near enough to do anything effective other than 'not get dribbled past', which is poor. As for the coward bit, yes it's perhaps harsh but I've had enough of his passive defending and style, which is not a view that I share alone in this thread/forum. It's a bit like saying Rashford is inconsistent or Martial has poor off the ball movement. It's clear as day and clearly hampering his/our game.

The Son chance in the 2nd half, just afer Lindelof slips, again sums this up with the 'I'll stay an arms length away with my hands behind my back and just wait for you to shoot'. He doesn't get close enough to engage to do anything other than be a body between the goal. @GifLord any chance of this video?

I thought overall he had a decent game, the best I've seen from him for a while but that doesn't detract his underlying flaws.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Noticed that too. Don't think he has been good the past weeks, but he had a really good game against Spurs no doubt about it.

Regarding Lindelof being a bit of a coward or without the slur just not showing enough fight and guts in certain situations. I noticed in this game he got a slap to the face from Son whilst trying to block a shot, and he looked confused after that and kinda lost his man there... however it looked like he felt like a pussy maybe after that because he went in unnecessarily tough in a few duels following that. It's important. He needs to continue to do that because he is a CB and often he gets treated like he is not even there and targeted by attackers every game. It is important to not lose your concentration from confrontations and against Spurs he didn't.

He also went in to tackle when the situation presented itself instead of fumbling away the opportunity and back up, like he has been doing a lot this season in similar situations.

A few weird passes that caused confusion is to be forgiven when the all-around defensive performance is good. I think this should be his level though. Any worse than this on a consistent basis and his inherent weaknesses will always hold him back.

Maybe he gets braver as he grows in confidence/ form. He's been decent recently, no clear mistakes like the beginning of the season, so maybe that confidence is translating to the pitch.

It would be quite nice if the timidity is actually down to that as opposed to being part of his game, because I really don't fancy the constant backing off and shying away.