It’s easier to be right when we know the outcome of the shot...Maybe you are right.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Clean sheets
- 19
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
Agree. It's Carrick-esque. Sheppherding is good as you're aware of your positioning but it means feck all if you don't actively try to affect the outcome.
None of the back four played well to be fair but the great goal aside, it was a typical game for Lindelof.
Yeah, exactly my point. It's why AWB is so effective in his tackles, he waits a bit and let players get comfortable thinking they've gone past him but at that point there isn't any uncertainty and risk so he can fully commit with a clean tackle. It only works because of his unorthodox style and great timing in his tackles, if he just let people past him and then does nothing that would be terrible.
Carrick as a CDM used to do it purposefully to slow down play and cut dangerous passing lanes instead of winning the ball. He was great at it. Lindelof is a CB and what he is effectively doing is guiding players into attacking areas without any final defensive move, with no decisive strategy on what to do next and it renders his full involvement rather pointless. Hopefully he can change this. I didn't perceive him as this soft last season but maybe we've just seen more of him now playing every game. He hasn't looked quite right since preseason anyways, very shaky.
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So much this. In case anyone hasn't noticed, half our midfield is injured and the one playing is leaking like a sieve at the moment.
I thought he was our least shittest defender yesterday to be fair - though I suppose that isn't saying much.
We need to dispel this myth that him and Maguire are good at passing - being able to control a football does not mean you can pass a ball... they're both pretty average, if not often crap at it.
We need to dispel this myth that him and Maguire are good at passing - being able to control a football does not mean you can pass a ball... they're both pretty average, if not often crap at it.
With Lindelof i am starting to be like @Ekeke with Smalling. Only i rate him here?
He was far better than Maguire in last 2 games but still people say that he is bad. Why? He don't lose duels, good on the ball, doesn't panic, he is always on right place and he doesn't lose headers anymore. I am missing something i guess
He was far better than Maguire in last 2 games but still people say that he is bad. Why? He don't lose duels, good on the ball, doesn't panic, he is always on right place and he doesn't lose headers anymore. I am missing something i guess
I understand the reasoning behind his hiring. His strengths was anticipation, speed and a very decent ball control. His weaknesses were the physical clashes.
If he could improve his bravery and determination, he could easily become one of the best players on his position. The problem is that he's not stepping up.
If he could improve his bravery and determination, he could easily become one of the best players on his position. The problem is that he's not stepping up.
I think bravery is something that just makes you who you are mentally.
Its in the genes. You either have it or you dont. Its not something you can necessarily learn,imo.
Its in the genes. You either have it or you dont. Its not something you can necessarily learn,imo.
Yeah, nothing like me. Smalling is the best performing CB in Serie A this season. Lindelof is at best the 2nd best performing CB just at United
I thought Lindelof was better than Maguire this week, but not last week. And he was better this week mostly because he scored and Maguire was poor, rather than because Lindelof put in a good defensive performance. He was okay, scored a goal and his partner was worse
I'm feeling the same way.
IMO he had some poor moments in first half, but yes he was better than Maguire. As an example, he was too passive at the offside goal (together with Bissaka, Maguire and DDG), and he had some poor passes. At the same time both Martial and Rashford are useless at receiving long balls, they feck up even when the long balls are good. In second half he was good.
I thk some of his “weaknesses” are a little exaggerated. I read many saying he didn’t go in to duels and he was poor in the air yesterday, yet no other person on the pitch won more aerial duels than him, plus he scored a goal on a header. Also if we look over the season so far he average around 2.7 won aerial duels per match, almost all of them in defence, which means his big weakness actually is more or less average for a CB in the PL.
I also believe many dislike his way of defending because they think he is passive, compared to the traditional reactive PL defender. I agree he is too passive in certain situation where it calls for aggressiveness, like the offside goal yesterday. But on the positive note, he rarely sells himself, he is rarely dribbled, he has a good positioning and reads the game well which means he can cover for Maguire who often is somewhere else.
I would say this switching on and off between aggressiveness and coolness is one of the most impressive things with VvD. Few defenders master that but it is certainly something Lindelof needs.
I actually think Lindelof hasbeen better the last weeks. He has improved a little, but worryingly Maguire has declined a lot the last weeks. The opposite teams make him move out of his position almost to a FB position, and when he’s alone man to man, he is not quick enough. We saw one example yesterday, early in the match where he needed to take a yellow to save the situation. It worked much better when Fred started to cover for Williams and Maguire could stay in the centre.
Based on WhoScored anyway.
The problem is that if he commits into that situation to stop the potential shot, he opens up for a fake shot & side step move. That would put Trezeguet free from a good angle with De Gea.
The angle he gave to Trezeguet is rarely dangerous, unless it's Roberto Carlos or Beckham shooting.
I think in general that people likes to see more Wan-Bissaka slide tackles and aggressiveness. I think the difference is that Lindelöf rarely gets into situations where he needs to do that. Granted that he's bad at it when it's needed.
He played a horrible match and his goal doesn't change a thing. His job on the pitch is to defend and he is so pathetic at it I cant believe my eyes. He just runs next to players and he doesnt even tries to stop them, he is just there doing nothing. Wrong positioning, weak in battles. And its all on Olé. He should have kept Smalling and he still has Tuanzebe, both are miles above this parody of a defender.
I dont see it with him. He has up and downs, but he is nowhere near good enough. Had a good spell under Jose, but it wasnt permanent. He is here for years and isnt convincing most of the time.
I want Maguire and Tuanzebe for a run of games
I want Maguire and Tuanzebe for a run of games
He's been a permanent fixture in a defence that has not kept much clean sheets. He's weak and does not impose himself. Let's try replacing him in the first team with Tuanzebe and see if that helps us keep more clean sheets.
Our defense was poor, but Lindelöf was our best defender in my view. I think he suffers from our poor organization since he is more a smart teamplayer than a physical 1vs1 monster.
Maybe you should just try a watch him play sometimes. Ultimately he was better than Maguire, but mainly due to Maguire being absolutely all over the place yesterday, Lindelof plays like this most often than not.
I watched the game and didn’t see more than one foul from him. I just checked the official match stats and they also claim one foul.
It’s ok to criticise or dislike players, I’m just saying you make things up Or exaggerate, one foul in a match is suddenly “he can’t stop a player without committing a foul. “ Lindelof commits very few fouls in general.
Edit: 0.3 fouls per match so far
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There are many people who believe Lindelof is afraid of going in to duels, especially in the air. He is often compared with Maguire and Smalling, who both are very dominant in the air. Both are so strong that most corners and free kicks aim for their heads.
If we look at the stats from this season’s league matches, this is how it looks like:
Defensive aerial duels
Smalling 4.2 per match
Maguire 4.2 per match
Lindelof 4.0 per match
When Lindelof is compared with these two aerially dominant players, it is clear they have similar amount of defensive aerial duels per match.
Offensive aerial duels
Smalling 2.3 per match
Maguire 1.9 per match
Lindelof 0.5 per match
When it comes to offensive aerials, there is a big difference.
It can be compared with VvD who is very dominant in the air:
5.0 defensive aerials per match
2.0 offensive aerials per match
65% of Smalling’s aerial duels are defensive, 35% offensive. 69% of Maguire’s aerial duels are defensive. 89% of Lindelof’s aerial duels are defensive.
I have done my best to calculate accurately but there could be errors.
If we look at the stats from this season’s league matches, this is how it looks like:
Defensive aerial duels
Smalling 4.2 per match
Maguire 4.2 per match
Lindelof 4.0 per match
When Lindelof is compared with these two aerially dominant players, it is clear they have similar amount of defensive aerial duels per match.
Offensive aerial duels
Smalling 2.3 per match
Maguire 1.9 per match
Lindelof 0.5 per match
When it comes to offensive aerials, there is a big difference.
It can be compared with VvD who is very dominant in the air:
5.0 defensive aerials per match
2.0 offensive aerials per match
65% of Smalling’s aerial duels are defensive, 35% offensive. 69% of Maguire’s aerial duels are defensive. 89% of Lindelof’s aerial duels are defensive.
I have done my best to calculate accurately but there could be errors.
He defended that perfectly until the shot. He should not be going for a tackle there like some want him to, but i have no idea why he didn't try and block the shot even from that angle. I actually think he was expecting Trezeguet to cut back and go inside.
There was a point where the ball broke free and he was underneath it and allowed it to bounce in his own area, before the Villa player came and won it. Absolutely shocking piece of defending that you'd get slaughtered for on a Sunday morning for a pub team, never mind a PL team.
They’re both good passers. If we had any semblance of a midfield they’d both look far better. They’re good footballers.
Neither do I.
Surely your first job as a defender should be to know how to actually “defend”. He just seems like he can’t defend at all and just gets bullied by his opponent. Comes across as someone that doesn’t look as if he has played at CB before.
I didn’t say he can’t stop a player without committing a foul, some times he does not stop the player at all. I didn’t make things up and don’t have a problem to say he was great if he actually was, very rarely I feel he does great. He’s a solid player and that’s all, Johnny Evans was a better player for us and was constantly criticized for the same reasons.
I always thought even with the good sheppherding, Carrick didn't do enough in commiting to a defensive moment. It's easy to get back into position and put your body between the attacking player but it's hard to actually stop them from running into more space or passing the ball to player in another position, which sort of defeats the whole point of using all that energy to track back, as all you're doing is shadowing left to right, right to left, rinse repeat etc.
It's heavily reliant on your team mates and the system stopping the individual and attacking/passing phase because you're waiting for the second wave for support. And that's fine, I get that you can't do it all alone and the current system/coaching is dysfunction, I also don't expect prime Keane/Hargreaves harrying or AWB tackling but ffs make an actual move towards the player closer than two arm lengths to stop their momentum.
Even though I'm speaking about Carrick, that's totally applies to Lindelof.
There's a difference between 'commiting' to a defensive action e.g going straight into a tackle/sticking a foot in and being two arm lengths away because let's be honest Lindefof is not strong enough to go toe to toe and not fast enough to be able to go in a foot race. His type of defending/sheppherding is basically a square pass or going back towards your own goal i.e passive and 'safe' except it isn't safe, it's literally backwards because you're allowing the situation to happen rather than stand up to it.
He cannot head a ball to save his life either. A huge part of a defender's job.
We have a starting cb for England and starting cb for Sweden, on top of it we have a defensively strong rb and a world class goalie, still conceding for fun. Lack of quality in midfield doesn't help i guess but still bit weird
Being a starting central defender for Sweden isn't saying much.
That said our issues are in midfield, we're currently missing our best outfield player who's also our best midfielder and our 2nd best midfielder is also absent. The day we get a starting team something close to De Gea, AWB, Shaw, Harry, Lindelof, Fred, McTommy, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and James as our starting tea, then we'll look one hell of a lot better, both defensively and offensively.
You talk about Lindelof's positioning. Lindelof positioning is very good. When he is caught out of position or dribbled? He knows when to defend space and when to attack player or keep pressure on him. And on top of that you mention Smalling, whos positioning is awful. Him being caught in no man's land is legendary. Smalling is an example of bad positioning.
I think its as important if not more to look at how many times balls in the air have led to a goal against. With Lindelof we have multiple examples of it leading to a goal. I don't think I can remember a time this season where Maguire or Smalling being found wanting in the air led to a goal.
I agree that is very important. This was a reply to those who claim Lindelof doesn’t go in to duels, and specifically air duels. As seen he goes in to just as many as Smalling and Maguire when it comes to defending.
How many goals that are conceded because of lost headers is depending on how good the player is in the air, the role he has and how good your team mates are at covering for you. Lindelof has never been as good as Smalling or Maguire in the air. His lost headers have lead to two goals if I remember correctly, one could have been covered better by his team mates. Maguire has also lost two headers leading to goals, one should have been better taken care of by his team mate and then one lost corner which I think was his to win.
Even if Maguire is much more dominant and better in the air, I don’t see him having very good precision when he heads the ball. Every corner targets him but not much created. Lindelof’s goal last match is an example. It was a perfectly controlled header. I am not sure Maguire could do that, instead I think he would go for full force. (Me speculating)
Still there was no one winning more aerials than him last match.
I think all 3 would have scored that. The difference is Maguire and Smalling would be picked up by the best headers of the ball in the opposition team, whereas Lindelof would not be considered a threat - until now that hes scored, so he should get better marking in the coming games. That might free up Maguire to get one as well.
What I’ve seen Maguire normally goes for power, but as I wrote it is me speculating here. But in general I think he does not have the best precision on his headers.
Yes it’s a good thing Lindelof scored. Until now every corner has targeted Maguire and it makes it easy to defend. Especially when McT and Pogba out of the picture and no forward who can win aerials.
If you think his positioning is very good, we have absolutly nothing to talk about, you just dont understand football, its simple as that. He is out of position almost every time we are pressured, but how can you dribble a player that doesnt try to stop you and is afraid to defend? And you talk about Smalling who loves defending and is like ten times better at it than this piece of wood? This is really sad.
Last season ManUnited worked very hard on Lindelofs PR, like this "iceman" nonsense or highlights of him kicking the ball over the stadium and it obviously worked on people like you are, but believe me, Lindelof is the worst CB we have had for last 20 years. Maybe even more, but last 20 years I follow them very closely. Theres a reason we had the worst defensice record last year with Lindelof as our first choice as a CB.
A shocking indictment of our transfer policy
A mediocre player with no leadership quality whatsoever,lacking in courage when it counts
A mediocre player with no leadership quality whatsoever,lacking in courage when it counts
I stopped reading after first sentence. When someone starts his speech with that sentence i know that he is the person with whom any debating is useless.
But you just keep doing that. People here will love you.
people wanted him to be appointed captain this season. Mental.
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