[Adnan]

Centre backs as a collective aren’t quick. Players like Mbappe and Cavaleiro are going to destroy the vast majority of CBs in a foot race. You put Tuanzebe up against Mbappe in a straight sprint and he’ll get destroyed too. It doesn’t make Lindelof slow for a centre back.

You can bother him all you like. Anecdotal evidence means feck all. You can do that for every player. Ask GifLord to bring up the clip of 35 year old Carrick smashing Aguero in a foot race.

There's very fast CBs that can more than match players like Mbappe. Koulibaly did just that last season comfortably. Konate, Upacameno, Tah, Van Dyke are all lightening quick and I can name many more. Even De Ligt who isn't quick dealt with Mbappe (Holland V France) even showing him on the outside before outmuscling off the ball. De Ligt can compensate for his lack of pace due to his physicality but Lindelof can't as evidenced by his showing against the 5'9 Cavaleiro.

Tuanzebe would fair better than Lindelof against Mbappe because he's physically stronger aswell as being noticeably quicker.

 

[A-man]

Lindelof tries to outmuscle him knowing full well he can't match him for pace but gets shrugged off easily by Cavaleiro.

Fast is not an attribute I would use to describe Lindelof, neither is slow. But this clip is an example of what happens if you react to late. Lindelof was picking up speed half a second after Cavaleiro. Speed wise they look fairly even.

 

[Adnan]

Fast is not an attribute I would use to describe Lindelof, neither is slow. But this clip is an example of what happens if you react to late. Lindelof was picking up speed half a second after Cavaleiro. Speed wise they look fairly even.

I agree, fast isn't a attribute I'd associate with Lindelof either.

 

[Foxbatt]

Most CBs would get beaten at that kind of distance. Even Rio would and I remember Bellamy destroying him for speed. It was in fact a much shorter distance than Lindelof one. He is not very quick I admit and sometimes in these situations forwards will beat them for speed.

 

[Adnan]

Most CBs would get beaten at that kind of distance. Even Rio would and I remember Bellamy destroying him for speed. It was in fact a much shorter distance than Lindelof one. He is not very quick I admit and sometimes in these situations forwards will beat them for speed.

I agree, and I'm glad you say "he isn't very quick" because that's what people are aguing over.

 

[SteveW]

Smalling might not be a world class defender but he is/was a very good one. You don't get signed by Sir Alex Ferguson and be a regular under Champions League winning managers if you aren't very good. It's totally absurd to say a CB who just last season performed brilliantly against PSG in the away leg isn't at the very least very good.

He's a good defender. Just not very fashionable at the moment. I was always glad to see him on the pitch when we needed to defend well against quality strikers. Mbappe and Kane would attest to his quality in that regard.

 

[Adnan]

He's a good defender. Just not very fashionable at the moment. I was always glad to see him on the pitch when we needed to defend well against quality strikers. Mbappe and Kane would attest to his quality in that regard.

He dealt with Mbappe admirably and apparently he wasn't very good..

 

[SteveW]

Lindelof faster than Tuanzebe


Lindelof has average pace. 6,5/10

Tuanzebe is lightning. 9,5/10

Bailly is lightning. 10/10

Smalling was lightning, lost a bit of pace I think, still pretty fast. 8/10

Jones is fast-ish. 7,5/10

Rojo 6,5/10

AWB 9/10

Shaw was lightning with silly acceleration, lost some due to injuries and eating. 8,5/10

Young 7,5/10


There you have it, pace wise there is nothing more to discuss

These aren't far off.

He's how I'd score it.

Maguire 7/10
Lindelof 6.5/10
Tuanzebe 9/10
Bailly 9/10
Smalling 8/10
Jones 7.5/10
Rojo 6,5/10
AWB 9/10
Shaw 8,5/10
Young 7/10

 

[UncleBob]

Smalling might not be a world class defender but he is/was a very good one. You don't get signed by Sir Alex Ferguson and be a regular under Champions League winning managers if you aren't very good. It's totally absurd to say a CB who just last season performed brilliantly against PSG in the away leg isn't at the very least very good.

Valencia and Ashley Young were our regular fullbacks under Mourinho, i assume they are very good as well ? What is absurd is to focus on an outlier, like his performance away to PSG, instead of his average performances.

 

[SteveW]

He dealt with Mbappe admirably and apparently he wasn't very good..

There's no point in arguing with some people when it comes to Smalling. Some won't even admit when he has a good game. He was very good against PSG.

 

[Adnan]

Valencia and Ashley Young were our regular fullbacks under Mourinho, i assume they are very good as well ? What is absurd is to focus on an outlier, like his performance away to PSG, instead of his average performances.

Valencia was also a very good player for us and contributed to title winning seasons. He also played very well under both Mourinho and Van Gaal at fullback for a period of time before he declined due to knocking on alittle.

 

[UncleBob]

Valencia was also a very good player for us and contributed to title winning seasons. He also played very well under both Mourinho and Van Gaal at fullback for a period of time before he declined due to knocking on alittle.

No.

 

[Adnan]

No.

But you admit he was a very good player for us?

 

[Adnan]

There's no point in arguing with some people when it comes to Smalling. Some won't even admit when he has a good game. He was very good against PSG.

I've even criticised Smalling in the past tbh. But there's no question he was a very good CB for us and anyone who says otherwise isn't being truthful IMO.

 

[simmee]

There's very fast CBs that can more than match players like Mbappe. Koulibaly did just that last season comfortably. Konate, Upacameno, Tah, Van Dyke are all lightening quick and I can name many more. Even De Ligt who isn't quick dealt with Mbappe (Holland V France) even showing him on the outside before outmuscling off the ball. De Ligt can compensate for his lack of pace due to his physicality but Lindelof can't as evidenced by his showing against the 5'9 Cavaleiro.

Tuanzebe would fair better than Lindelof against Mbappe because he's physically stronger aswell as being noticeably quicker.

Based on what? Him doing OK against championship quality and a 17 year old kid saying he’s stronger? Physicality is all that matters in football according to the great minds of Adnan of the Caf and Sam Allardyce, luckily neither do them are the United manager.

And why are you arguing with yourself if Lindelof is quick or not? No one else is saying that.

 

[UncleBob]

But you admit he was a very good player for us?

Ages ago.

Just like Smalling played consistently at a higher level ages ago.

 

[Adnan]

Based on what? Him doing OK against championship quality and a 17 year old kid saying he’s stronger? Physicality is all that matters in football according to the great minds of Adnan of the Caf and Sam Allardyce, luckily neither do them are the United manager.

And why are you arguing with yourself if Lindelof is quick or not? No one else is saying that.

Where do I say that physicality is all that matters? You just made that up fella.

Where did I say that a 17 year old is stronger than Lindelof? You just made up another lie.

I'm not arguing with myself about Lindelof's pace if you read the preceding comments, which you obviously missed going off your train wreck of a post.

 

[Adnan]

Ages ago.

Just like Smalling played consistently at a higher level ages ago.

A players United career should be judged on the entirety of the contribution to the club. I don't think it's fair to use the twilight of Valencia's career to pass judgment on a player that contributed to our success over the last 9/10 years.

 

[UncleBob]

A players United career should be judged on the entirety of the contribution to the club. I don't think it's fair to use the twilight of Valencia's career to pass judgment on a player that contributed to our success over the last 9/10 years.

You're talking about different things here.

Look, for non-obvious reasons you like Chris Smalling, we get it, it's why you're arguing he's still a very good player because he had a good away performance against PSG. Mint.

 

[A-man]

There's very fast CBs that can more than match players like Mbappe. Koulibaly did just that last season comfortably. Konate, Upacameno, Tah, Van Dyke are all lightening quick and I can name many more. Even De Ligt who isn't quick dealt with Mbappe (Holland V France) even showing him on the outside before outmuscling off the ball. De Ligt can compensate for his lack of pace due to his physicality but Lindelof can't as evidenced by his showing against the 5'9 Cavaleiro.

Tuanzebe would fair better than Lindelof against Mbappe because he's physically stronger aswell as being noticeably quicker.

You have seen Lindelof come in with one (1) weak tackle sometimes last season and that is proof that he can't outmuscle players like Mbappe?

And you claim Tuanzebe would be "fair better" defending against Mbappe than Lindelof?
Someone who has never ever played matches on that level. Actually he has hardly even played in the PL. He's had one good season in the Campionship.

 

[simmee]

Where do I say that physicality is all that matters? You just made that up fella.

Where did I say that a 17 year old is stronger than Lindelof? You just made up another lie.

I'm not arguing with myself about Lindelof's pace if you read the preceding comments, which you obviously missed going off your train wreck of a post.

You said that Greenwood told you Tuanzebe was stronger than Lindelof, or did you make that up as well? You’re having a shocker in this thread.

 

[A-man]

You said that Greenwood told you Tuanzebe was stronger than Lindelof, or did you make that up as well? You’re having a shocker in this thread.

I actually think it was Greenwood's dad who was stronger than Lindelof, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Adnan]

You have seen Lindelof come in with one (1) weak tackle sometimes last season and that is proof that he can't outmuscle players like Mbappe?

And you claim Tuanzebe would be "fair better" defending against Mbappe than Lindelof?
Someone who has never ever played matches on that level. Actually he has hardly even played in the PL. He's had one good season in the Campionship.

I'm giving you my opinion on Tuanzebe who I have watched play in our academy since he was 16. I'm not talking about watching him on MUTV either.

Tuanzebe had already put in some very impressive performances in the EPL as a teenager before Lindelof even arrived. The performance away to Arsenal up against Alexis Sanchez was particularly impressive IMO. He performed excellently whenever given a opportunity at first team level under Mourinho at 19. But Mourinho decided to buy Benfica's Lindelof who took an age to even get to the same performamce level as Axel had shown against the likes of Arsenal at 19. Under Ole I don't believe he goes out on loan and we don't sign Lindelof.

Pace and physicality is a bonus in all players IMO. But what impresses me most about Axel is his ability on the ball. And when you add his pace and strength to those ball skills you have potentially a fantastic player in the making. And I'm sure Ole feels the same if Axel's fast tracking to being 3rd choice CB is anything to go by at a very young age.

 

[Adnan]

You said that Greenwood told you Tuanzebe was stronger than Lindelof, or did you make that up as well? You’re having a shocker in this thread.

Tuanzebe is physically stronger than Lindelof yes. Mason did mention that he has found it more difficult against Smalling and Axel due to those lads being physically very strong and very quick. Lindelof he described as not the quickest or strongest and I would love to share more but sadly can't.

 

[Adnan]

@simmee I'm also waiting for you to show me where I said "physicality is all that matters in football"

 

[Adnan]

I actually think it was Greenwood's dad who was stronger than Lindelof, but I could be mistaken.

His Dad who is a very good friend of mine so I'd aporeciate it if you didn't mention him thanks. He has nothing to do with this..

 

[A-man]

I'm giving you my opinion on Tuanzebe who I have watched play in our academy since he was 16. I'm not talking about watching him on MUTV either.

Tuanzebe had already put in some very impressive performances in the EPL as a teenager before Lindelof even arrived. The performance away to Arsenal up against Alexis Sanchez was particularly impressive IMO. He performed excellently whenever given a opportunity at first team level under Mourinho at 19. But Mourinho decided to buy Benfica's Lindelof who took an age to even get to the same performamce level as Axel had shown against the likes of Arsenal at 19. Under Ole I don't believe he goes out on loan and we don't sign Lindelof.

Pace and physicality is a bonus in all players IMO. But what impresses me most about Axel is his ability on the ball. And when you add his pace and strength to those ball skills you have potentially a fantastic player in the making. And I'm sure Ole feels the same if Axel's fast tracking to being 3rd choice CB is anything to go by at a very young age.

I agree Tuanzebe has potential. But nobody has seen him perform repeatedly at PL level., only about 300 min in total.

I can also understand if you are a bit dissapointed that Lindelof took your favourite player's spot in the team. But what you are doing in this thread is trying your best to discredit Lindelof in different ways.

 

[A-man]

His Dad who is a very good friend of mine so I'd aporeciate it if you didn't mention him thanks. He has nothing to do with this..

Ok, I thought it was ok since you mentioned him before when you said he approved that you wrote about what his son thought about Lindelof in this forum. So I made a lite joke. Sorry.

 

[Adnan]

I agree Tuanzebe has potential. But nobody has seen him perform repeatedly at PL level., only about 300 min in total.

I can also understand if you are a bit dissapointed that Lindelof took your favourite player's spot in the team. But what you are doing in this thread is trying your best to discredit Lindelof in different ways.

I have alot of favourite players tbh. I could also accuse you of camping in this thread defending your fellow Swede.

I rate Axel's potential higher than Lindelof that's all. It's something I've consistently said for the last two years. I've never rated Lindelof anything more than a 3rd choice CB in a strong United squad.

 

[Adnan]

Ok, I thought it was ok since you mentioned him before when you said he approved that you wrote about what his son thought about Lindelof in this forum. So I made a lite joke. Sorry.

It's fine..

 

[simmee]

His Dad who is a very good friend of mine so I'd aporeciate it if you didn't mention him thanks. He has nothing to do with this..

You’re obviously extremely biased in this subject and it’s hilarious that you can’t see that. I just want what’s best for United and if that means Tuanzebe taking Lindelof’s spot that’s great. The more homegrown players the better as long as they are good enough. I do however have higher standards than doing it the championship and being big and strong in training.

 

[A-man]

I have alot of favourite players tbh. I could also accuse you of camping in this thread defending your fellow Swede.

I rate Axel's potential higher than Lindelof that's all. It's something I've consistently said for the last two years. I've never rated Lindelof anything more than a 3rd choice CB in a strong United squad.

I do my best to be objective. I have to my knowledge not discredited Tuanzebe. On the contrary I hope he is successful and manage to be part of the new United. I show full respect for Jones, Smalling and Rojo even though I don't find them good enough for the type of football Ole wants his team to play. I speak my opinion about them, but not to discredit them. So I see no reason for you to accuse me for camping here.

Yes you have said Tuanzebe has higher potential than Lindelof for two years, which was even before Lindelof played his first game for United. Got that.

It is good Tuanzebe is physical and all that. But the test will be if he can play according to Ole's tactics. Hopefully he can.

 

[ivaldo]

There's very fast CBs that can more than match players like Mbappe. Koulibaly did just that last season comfortably. Konate, Upacameno, Tah, Van Dyke are all lightening quick and I can name many more. Even De Ligt who isn't quick dealt with Mbappe (Holland V France) even showing him on the outside before outmuscling off the ball. De Ligt can compensate for his lack of pace due to his physicality but Lindelof can't as evidenced by his showing against the 5'9 Cavaleiro.

Tuanzebe would fair better than Lindelof against Mbappe because he's physically stronger aswell as being noticeably quicker.

So, due to your insistence on using anecdotal evidence to comprehensively make your conclusion, you’re happy to accept 35 year old Carrick is faster than Aguero?

Yes they are very quick players. They’re also in the minority for centre backs. Hence why I said ‘few’ Centre backs, and not none.

De Ligt has been bullied by guys far smaller than that. Look what Sterling does to guys significantly bigger than he. Just being strong doesn’t cut it, but what does that have to do with pace assertion that Lindelof is quicker than the average CB?

 

[Adnan]

You’re obviously extremely biased in this subject and it’s hilarious that you can’t see that. I just want what’s best for United and if that means Tuanzebe taking Lindelof’s spot that’s great. The more homegrown players the better as long as they are good enough. I do however have higher standards than doing it the championship and being big and strong in training.

Can I be of the opinion that Axel is potentially better than Lindelof? I have provided many posts to support my argument. And if I'm proven wrong then I'll be the first to admit it in this thread. Not sure why I'm biased either? Care to explain?

The information on the training sessions shouldn't be taken seriously as far as player progression is concerned. I thought I was pretty clear on that, but obviously not. The conversation only came up after many on here were going back and forth regarding pace and physicality which I thought I'd participate in. Just a harmless discussion.

The more home grown players the better, I agree. But only if they're good enough. I've been critical of many home grown players currently and in the past. You have to have a specific skillset to play for the club IMO.

 

[Adnan]

So, due to your insistence on using anecdotal evidence to comprehensively make your conclusion, you’re happy to accept 35 year old Carrick is faster than Aguero?

Yes they are very quick players. They’re also in the minority for centre backs. Hence why I said ‘few’ Centre backs, and not none.

De Ligt has been bullied by guys far smaller than that. Look what Sterling does to guys significantly bigger than he. Just being strong doesn’t cut it, but what does that have to do with pace assertion that Lindelof is quicker than the average CB?

Let's not beat around the bush here. The Swedish posters have even admitted he isn't fast and it's not a attribute that is a strong point of his. It's plain easy to see via the eye test too. Do you agree he isn't a fast player? because that's the bone of contention here.

 

[ivaldo]

Let's not beat around the bush here. The Swedish posters have even admitted he isn't fast and it's not a attribute that is a strong point of his. It's plain easy to see via the eye test too. Do you agree he isn't a fast player? because that's the bone of contention here.

Well if the Swedish posters have said it, it must be true. Your anecdotal comparisons to really fast centre backs doesn’t prove Lindelof isn’t faster than the average CB. Which is all I’ve said. It’s like using Bolt as evidence that Tyson Gay isn’t fast.

 

[Adnan]

.

Well if the Swedish posters have said it, it must be true. Your anecdotal comparisons to really fast centre backs doesn’t prove Lindelof isn’t faster than the average CB. Which is all I’ve said. It’s like using Bolt as evidence that Tyson Gay isn’t fast.

Thankyou, we're getting somewhere. Being fast isn't a attribute that you associate with Lindelof and I'm glad you agree with our Swedish friends.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

.

Thankyou, we're getting somewhere. Being fast isn't a attribute that you associate with Lindelof and I'm glad you agree with our Swedish friends.

You're ignoring the second part of that though. He's not slow either. So I don't see why you're insisting on making his pace an issue?

 

[ivaldo]

.

Thankyou, we're getting somewhere. Being fast isn't a attribute that you associate with Lindelof and I'm glad you agree with our Swedish friends.

You mean, at the point where I started? All I said was he wasn’t slow and that using anecdotal comparisons is a little silly. Case in point Carrick vs Aguero, which you didn’t respond to.

 

[Adnan]

You mean, at the point where I started? All I said was he wasn’t slow and that using anecdotal comparisons is a little silly. Case in point Carrick vs Aguero, which you didn’t respond to.

I never said he was slow either. But I've always maintained he lacks pace and will struggle if exposed to quick players. Fulham's Cavaleiro and Cardiff's Zahore are just two examples of players he's struggled against due to pace and I've even mentioned those examples at the time in this very thread.