[Web of Bissaka]

Among our CBs, he's not a problem isn't he.

At the very best, he can continue improving silently to finally reach a level where he can be regarded as elite CB with strings of performances befitting that standard.

At most, he'll continue being consistent, reliably fit and do what he do even if it's not really eye-catching, full of passiveness and just okay enough. Sometimes he'll give good performances.

At the very least, he'll remain being a very good squad player once we got a far better upgrade.. which I'm not confident we're getting anytime soon.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I like Lindelof, but for some reason he gets a hard time on here.

Some people don’t understand defending that’s why.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Among our CBs, he's not a problem isn't he.

At the very best, he can continue improving silently to finally reach a level where he can be regarded as elite CB with strings of performances befitting that standard.

At most, he'll continue being consistent, reliably fit and do what he do even if it's not really eye-catching, full of passiveness and just okay enough. Sometimes he'll give good performances.

At the very least, he'll remain being a very good squad player once we got a far better upgrade.. which I'm not confident we're getting anytime soon.

This is a good summary. Although an improvement would be ideal, either from Lindelof or elsewhere.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It's a bit like the Martial situation where fans wanted a striker but couldn't name any in the market available for a reasonable price that was a significant upgrade and fit our system.

 

[georgipep]

Wijnaldum and Henderson have insane stamina and physicality which allows them to cover a lot of ground. Wijnaldum also has very good press resistance and doesn't get dispossessed often.

And besides, unless we have a manager like Klopp, we shouldn't be looking to start average players consistently. We don't have Klopp.

I still think you're mythologising players and managers. Klopp has tactical requirements for his players and when he gets the right ones to follow his instructions, things work out well.

Same as Ole and the right players he has in our starting 11. Lindelof is one of them. Sorry he doesn't have a fireball on his Panini sticker.

 

[Ekeke]

The % are based on games played. So how is he better than who we have?

So, again I will ask where are the mistakes Lindelof has made? I can pick Gomez and VVD mistakes as well, but as we all know every player makes mistakes.

Your beloved Smalling keeps conceding penalties, 5 this season.

No, I start with a belied of supporting the team, not isolating a player and hating him. That is pathetic. Agendas against your own players.

5? You're talking about David Luiz.

Smalling penalties :

Borussia M - Penalty given against Smalling for "handball" but it hit him straight in the face. Clearly incorrect

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50175001

Torino 2 - 0 Belotti shoots, Smalling blocks and then doesnt know where ball is and handballs in the box




Milan 2 - Roma 0 Smalling gives away a penalty sliding in, Calhanoglu converts

https://www.acmilan.com/en/match-center/g2021330/statistics



So one penalty for handball, one for a slide tackle and not getting the ball and one phantom penalty for the ball hitting his face

2 actual penalties conceded in 36 starts in all competitions. It is higher than he normally gives away but it is essentially one mistake with his hand and one bad tackle that gave away a penalty in 36 games.

Roma didnt have the luxury of a defense that was bought for over £190 million. Smalling didnt have £120 million of defenders signed to come into the side next to him this season.

In fact they had loads of injuries and players unavailable last season. When Roma did have a first choice defense it was Mancini - Smalling - Kolarov and Santon who played 7 games at RB and then injured, Florenzi who played 10 games at RB then on loan from christmas at Valencia and then 6 at right back from Spinazzola who also played 6 left back and 6 left wingback.

So Roma's first choice defense this season was bought/valued - Mancini £11.7 million to be paid this summer after his loan, Smalling Free on loan with a £20 million valuation if they want to keep him, Kolarov £4.5 million and Santon £8.5 million. Their first choice defense was assembled with £44.7 million even if we count Smalling by his value and Mancini even though they dont have to pay till this summer as he was on loan

Even if we throw in the players who filled in over the course of the season for Roma at fullback positions - Spinazzola £26.5 million (dud) and Bruno Peres £11.2 million on top of pretending Roma actually paid for Smalling or Mancini last season at full value, their defense would still come to £82 million. Not even close to the £127 million we paid for AWB and Maguire this summer alone, let alone the £190+ million we spent on AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw.

So yeah no shit he gave away 2 clear penalties and Roma conceded 51 goals (not all in matches he was playing) while United conceded 15 less goals. Smalling did even better 2 seasons ago and Phil Jones was his partner

Lindelof was essentially playing in Fort Knox, with a £55 million RB doing half his job to the right and a £78 million CB to his left doing a third of his job. And he still wasn't convincing.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I still think you're mythologising players and managers. Klopp has tactical requirements for his players and when he gets the right ones to follow his instructions, things work out well.

Same as Ole and the right players he has in our starting 11. Lindelof is one of them. Sorry he doesn't have a fireball on his Panini sticker.

I think you're making more of my statement than you need to, it's not controversial at all if you think about it.

Think back to our best players of before, they all had attributes that allowed them to be better than most opponents. Scholes, Keane, Ronaldo, Rooney, Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs, etc. Of course there were players who supplemented the first 11, but for the most part they all had special qualities.

I'd prefer most of our first teamers to have that sort of quality, and unfortunately I don't think Lindelof has a standout quality that guarantees his place as a first team Man Utd player.

 

[A-man]

5? You're talking about David Luiz.

Smalling penalties :

Borussia M - Penalty given against Smalling for "handball" but it hit him straight in the face. Clearly incorrect

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50175001

Torino 2 - 0 Belotti shoots, Smalling blocks and then doesnt know where ball is and handballs in the box




Milan 2 - Roma 0 Smalling gives away a penalty sliding in, Calhanoglu converts

https://www.acmilan.com/en/match-center/g2021330/statistics



So one penalty for handball, one for a slide tackle and not getting the ball and one phantom penalty for the ball hitting his face

2 actual penalties conceded in 36 starts in all competitions. It is higher than he normally gives away but it is essentially one mistake with his hand and one bad tackle that gave away a penalty in 36 games.

Roma didnt have the luxury of a defense that was bought for over £190 million. Smalling didnt have £120 million of defenders signed to come into the side next to him this season.

In fact they had loads of injuries and players unavailable last season. When Roma did have a first choice defense it was Mancini - Smalling - Kolarov and Santon who played 7 games at RB and then injured, Florenzi who played 10 games at RB then on loan from christmas at Valencia and then 6 at right back from Spinazzola who also played 6 left back and 6 left wingback.

So Roma's first choice defense this season was bought/valued - Mancini £11.7 million to be paid this summer after his loan, Smalling Free on loan with a £20 million valuation if they want to keep him, Kolarov £4.5 million and Santon £8.5 million. Their first choice defense was assembled with £44.7 million even if we count Smalling by his value and Mancini even though they dont have to pay till this summer as he was on loan

Even if we throw in the players who filled in over the course of the season for Roma at fullback positions - Spinazzola £26.5 million (dud) and Bruno Peres £11.2 million on top of pretending Roma actually paid for Smalling or Mancini last season at full value, their defense would still come to £82 million. Not even close to the £127 million we paid for AWB and Maguire this summer alone, let alone the £190+ million we spent on AWB, Lindelof, Maguire and Shaw.

So yeah no shit he gave away 2 clear penalties and Roma conceded 51 goals (not all in matches he was playing) while United conceded 15 less goals. Smalling did even better 2 seasons ago and Phil Jones was his partner

Lindelof was essentially playing in Fort Knox, with a £55 million RB doing half his job to the right and a £78 million CB to his left doing a third of his job. And he still wasn't convincing.

Smalling has given 3 penalties in the Serie A and one in Europa League this season (to my my best knoldge, could be more). The one in Europa league was incorrect and the ref even apologised to Roma afterwards.
But the three in league were all pretty clear.

The strange handball where he looked at the ball and boxed it away, at 3:20


Against Cagliari, also at 3:20


And against Milan, 2:50


With VAR you don’t get away with these things anymore.

 

[Ekeke]

Smalling has given 3 penalties in the Serie A and one in Europa League this season (to my my best knoldge, could be more). The one in Europa league was incorrect and the ref even apologised to Roma afterwards.
But the three in league were all pretty clear.

The strange handball where he looked at the ball and boxed it away, at 3:20


Against Cagliari, also at 3:20


And against Milan, 2:50


With VAR you don’t get away with these things anymore.

Cagliari is the one i missed because I was looking for scored penalties against Roma. I guess it counts as a miss even though he got the rebound.

Yes they are penalties. The one in europe obviously wasnt

 

[georgipep]

I think you're making more of my statement than you need to, it's not controversial at all if you think about it.

Think back to our best players of before, they all had attributes that allowed them to be better than most opponents. Scholes, Keane, Ronaldo, Rooney, Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs, etc. Of course there were players who supplemented the first 11, but for the most part they all had special qualities.

I'd prefer most of our first teamers to have that sort of quality, and unfortunately I don't think Lindelof has a standout quality that guarantees his place as a first team Man Utd player.

I think the success one team has paints most of the story and builds players' reputation. If this team wins a trophy or two and people will start saying what insane skills and qualities they have. If they lose games and people start finding faults with them. That's completely natural and I probably shouldn't remind you how people judged Evra, Vidic and more recently players like Matić just because they have had poor form at some point.

But players are judged as part of a team and a system. Everything else is just comparing stats and that's not useful, in my opinion. But you're right, I went a bit overboard with my sarcasm and I apologise.

 

[A-man]

So yeah no shit he gave away 2 clear penalties and Roma conceded 51 goals (not all in matches he was playing) while United conceded 15 less goals. Smalling did even better 2 seasons ago and Phil Jones was his partner

This is something you have been writing several times in several threads, but this is not correct. Smalling and Jones were not a CB pair very often in season 2017/18.

Smalling and Jones formed a CB pair in 10 games out of 38.

Smalling and Lindelof was the second most played pair and played 8 times together.

Third most played pair was Bailly and Jones who played 6 times together.

Then there were many different formations used 1-2 times.

 

[izec]

His days are numbered, at least as a starter. Smalling has no chance either.

I cant wait to see our shiny new CB

 

[Ekeke]

This is something you have been writing several times in several threads, but this is not correct. Smalling and Jones were not a CB pair very often in season 2017/18.

Smalling and Jones formed a CB pair in 10 games out of 38.

Smalling and Lindelof was the second most played pair and played 8 times together.

Third most played pair was Bailly and Jones who played 6 times together.

Then there were many different formations used 1-2 times.

So Smalling and Jones played the most games

 

[andersj]

This is something you have been writing several times in several threads, but this is not correct. Smalling and Jones were not a CB pair very often in season 2017/18.

Smalling and Jones formed a CB pair in 10 games out of 38.

Smalling and Lindelof was the second most played pair and played 8 times together.

Third most played pair was Bailly and Jones who played 6 times together.

Then there were many different formations used 1-2 times.

Also fail to mention that we conceded more chances and shots, but was saved by the worlds best goalkeeper that season.

Also fail to mention that Rojo/Jones looked even better than any duo Smalling was part of the season before that.

 

[A-man]

So Smalling and Jones played the most games

They played 26% of the matches as a CB pair so describing the good defensive season as a result of Smalling partnered with Jones is not correct.

 

[A-man]

Also fail to mention that we conceded more chances and shots, but was saved by the worlds best goalkeeper that season.

Also fail to mention that Rojo/Jones looked even better than any duo Smalling was part of the season before that.

Yes it was never calm at the back that season, but it was probably mostly because we changed CB formations all the time. This season we’ve played with the same almost every match and that gives stability.

 

[Ekeke]

They played 26% of the matches as a CB pair so describing the good defensive season as a result of Smalling partnered with Jones is not correct.

Smalling only played half of our premier league matches last season and was still blamed for our record. We're working with small numbers, always have been.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I like Lindelof, but for some reason he gets a hard time on here.

This thread is toxic unfortunately.

The one who defends him is looking for argument and likes to make small stuff into big deal. Few days ago, I gave credit to his performance vs Leicester and what he is good at but his defenders came in and trying to argue that this guy doesn't have below average of pace just to please themselves.

The haters are also looking for argument because they think there are 20 Van Dijk out there. Understandable standard looking at in the past we used to have Stam, Pallister, Bruce, Rio & Vidic.

Not everyone who doesn't rate Lindelof high enough means they are in the same category to someone who give 0 credit or appreciation at all. A decent centre back better than Rojo, Jones & Bailly, has something he's good at but also has lot of weaknesses.

 

[criticalanalysis]

To those saying 'he hasn't made mistakes costing a goal' and 'show me the statistics where he's had a negative influence', that's like me saying Lingard had a high pass completion rate as an attacking midfielder and did a lot of pressing from the front. That's not the actual fecking point because his lack of quality meant our whole attack suffered as a result.

People point to Lindelof's passiveness because he back peddles and makes our WHOLE team drop 5-15 yards because he doesn't want to take responsibility. No one is saying he has to go win the ball every time or make a tackle but he's got to hassle and stop the ball/put pressure at the point of play. Not shepherd them into our own half. His performance against Leicester was really good. Like really good but this is a rare example. For those saying he's been better or of a similar form to Maguire are nuts. One takes responsibility and has high peaks of performance and dominance. The other plays well by sweeping up and being positionally clean. The Leicester games are 1 every 15. He rarely exceeds or excels individually.

At times, his cautioness is a good quality but that's like 4/10 instances. The other 6/10 are just weak plays. Waiting for your team mates to cover space means you're not individually strong enough to deal with it. It's smart play because he knows his limitations, which is basically plenty evidence that he's limited. The fact is, you're not dealing with Messi in those other 6/10 situations ffs.

It's not unique to him and our whole team is inefficient in pressing/closing space but he is the absolutely the weakest link in the defence imo. People point about the great defensive record we've had this year and sure you've got hand 'credit' to him for being fit but AWB (who has locked down Lindelof's side of the pitch for most of the season), Maguire and Shaw's contribution far outweights his.

I've said it before many many times but he's 6/10 placeholder of a player. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those trying to make it out like he's a 7/10 or can regularly play like a 8 are just fanboys, which is fine but accept the reality that he's never consistently shown he can really deliver high quality performances. That's something to a lesser extent something Maguire has shown all season; not £80m worth but clearly a level above.

One more thing I will add is that there's a lot polarising opinions in all of the player's thread so again it's not unique to him but the thing that stands out the most is that those players have shown ELITE abilities and performances. Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Bruno, Matic, Fred, Maguire, De Gea even your Shaws and AWBs. Lindelof has not shown anything close to those to warrant this staunch defending of such a mediocre player. The only thing he's shown regularly is the ability to be on the pitch as a body.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

To those saying 'he hasn't made mistakes costing a goal' and 'show me the statistics where he's had a negative influence', that's like me saying Lingard had a high pass completion rate as an attacking midfielder and did a lot of pressing from the front. That's not the actual fecking point because his lack of quality meant our whole attack suffered as a result.

People point to Lindelof's passiveness because he back peddles and makes our WHOLE team drop 5-15 yards because he doesn't want to take responsibility. No one is saying he has to go win the ball every time or make a tackle but he's got to hassle and stop the ball/put pressure at the point of play. Not shepherd them into our own half. His performance against Leicester was really good. Like really good but this is a rare example. For those saying he's been better or of a similar form to Maguire are nuts. One takes responsibility and has high peaks of performance and dominance. The other plays well by sweeping up and being positionally clean. The Leicester games are 1 every 15. He rarely exceeds or excels individually.

At times, his cautioness is a good quality but that's like 4/10 instances. The other 6/10 are just weak plays. Waiting for your team mates to cover space means you're not individually strong enough to deal with it. It's smart play because he knows his limitations, which is basically plenty evidence that he's limited. The fact is, you're not dealing with Messi in those other 6/10 situations ffs.

It's not unique to him and our whole team is inefficient in pressing/closing space but he is the absolutely the weakest link in the defence imo. People point about the great defensive record we've had this year and sure you've got hand 'credit' to him for being fit but AWB (who has locked down Lindelof's side of the pitch for most of the season), Maguire and Shaw's contribution far outweights his.

I've said it before many many times but he's 6/10 placeholder of a player. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those trying to make it out like he's a 7/10 or can regularly play like a 8 are just fanboys, which is fine but accept the reality that he's never consistently shown he can really deliver high quality performances. That's something to a lesser extent something Maguire has shown all season; not £80m worth but clearly a level above.

One more thing I will add is that there's a lot polarising opinions in all of the player's thread so again it's not unique to him but the thing that stands out the most is that those players have shown ELITE abilities and performances. Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Bruno, Matic, Fred, Maguire, De Gea even your Shaws and AWBs. Lindelof has not shown anything close to those to warrant this staunch defending of such a mediocre player. The only thing he's shown regularly is the ability to be on the pitch as a body.

I actually find it weird how some people use 'he hasn't made mistakes costing a goal' to defend an argument, I think it's a bit too much to think that way. End of the day, players make mistakes. Nothing new even Rio Ferdinand made mistakes and Lindelof also the same. Players made mistakes and others cover for those players result in no conceded goal from those mistakes. Playing with Bissaka next to you has benefit to it as well.

 

[A-man]

I actually find it weird how some people use 'he hasn't made mistakes costing a goal' to defend an argument, I think it's a bit too much to think that way. End of the day, players make mistakes. Nothing new even Rio Ferdinand made mistakes and Lindelof also the same. Players made mistakes and others cover for those players result in no conceded goal from those mistakes. Playing with Bissaka next to you has benefit to it as well.

All players make mistakes, but some people make the claim that he “always has a mistake in him” when the fact is that he makes relatively few mistakes compared to CBs in general.

 

[romufc]

All players make mistakes, but some people make the claim that he “always has a mistake in him” when the fact is that he makes relatively few mistakes compared to CBs in general.

The problem is the anti Lindelof fans wont understand this. Maguire, Smalling, VVD, Gomez, Souncu, De Ligt have all made mistakes this season, why is it that Lindelof makes 2/3 and he is classified as always has a mistake in him.

None of us are saying he is a world class CB, just give him the respect he deserves. This thread sometimes makes it seem he is the worst defender in the league.

 

[He'sRaldo]

None of us are saying he is a world class CB, just give him the respect he deserves. This thread sometimes makes it seem he is the worst defender in the league.

What is the respect he deserves?

 

[romufc]

What is the respect he deserves?

Not being treated as the worst PL defender. I just think he gets alot of criticism.

Post lockdown, I would say he was our best defender.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Not being treated as the worst PL defender. I just think he gets alot of criticism.

Post lockdown, I would say he was our best defender.

That's just what you imagine, toxic went through to your mind like that. I think lot of people in here think he's still a good option to have in the squad for next season.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not being treated as the worst PL defender. I just think he gets alot of criticism.

Post lockdown, I would say he was our best defender.

The general consensus I'm reading seems to be that he's a decent, often passive defender whose place in the first 11 shouldn't be a guarantee, nothing about being the worst defender in the league.

That assessment seems fair and realistic. To get an interpratation of the consensus being he's the worst defender in the league, you'd have to either be construing a different meaning from what people are writing, or focusing on the most negative posts (and even those don't rate him as poorly as you've suggested).

And everyone gets criticism. Even World Cup winner Paul Pogba who has the best claim to be world class in our squad, has one of the most polarizing threads. Expecting Lindelof to go without criticism is illogical, as he's obviously not world class and has a very noticeable flaw.

 

[romufc]

That's just what you imagine, toxic went through to your mind like that. I think lot of people in here think he's still a good option to have in the squad for next season.

I guess you haven't seen the thread after we concede a goal. 80% of goals are blamed on Lindelof.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

What 1-3 words best describe Lindelof as a player/defender?
Just "okay" for me.

Not among the best, definitely not among the worst.
Not really among the good, and not even among the averages.

Interestingly this season is his best so far, and there is growing improvements.
17/18 -- trash, rubbish, embodiment of mistakes.
18/19 -- mixed
19/20 -- overall okay, consistent

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I guess you haven't seen the thread after we concede a goal. 80% of goals are blamed on Lindelof.

If he involves with it then nothing is wrong with that. Just because someone criticised him in the Lindelof's performance thread doesn't mean you don't see the same posters & others put the blame on the other players in the same incident. End of the day it's individual player thread, so the focus will be on the player not on the team. They aren't going to blame other players in Lindelof's thread.

 

[A-man]

That's just what you imagine, toxic went through to your mind like that. I think lot of people in here think he's still a good option to have in the squad for next season.

The most likely it that he and Maguire start next season together. If there will be one more CB it will be because the bench options are never fit. That would either be Smalling coming back, or getting a new CB.

A new CB of high level would only sign if he is more or less guaranteed to play a lot. If we aim for that level there are not many to chose from, and it is never guaranteed to be successful. If we go for same level as Lindelof or slightly lower, I still think they would hesitate as they might end up with few games (like Smalling who took off).
If we go for a younger player nothing is guaranteed.
In all cases, it would be at the expense of Tuanzebe and Bailly. Ole doesn’t seem to like rotating the CBs too much, but it is clear that we need something. Both Maguire and Lindelof played through smaller injuries at times and Maguire looked fatigued at the end.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

All players make mistakes, but some people make the claim that he “always has a mistake in him” when the fact is that he makes relatively few mistakes compared to CBs in general.

Yeah. That is literally my big gripe on here. No room for nuance when criticising him it’s always taken that he’s the worst and needs replacing.

The problem is the anti Lindelof fans wont understand this. Maguire, Smalling, VVD, Gomez, Souncu, De Ligt have all made mistakes this season, why is it that Lindelof makes 2/3 and he is classified as always has a mistake in him.

None of us are saying he is a world class CB, just give him the respect he deserves. This thread sometimes makes it seem he is the worst defender in the league.

Agreed never said he’s world class and would be stupid to.

He’s relatively speaking a very good CB he’s just not the best in the world the big thing is that I cannot think of anyone available who is definitely coming in and being a better fit for our defensive style as it stands.

What is the respect he deserves?

To be treated as a good CB who like any other CB isn’t perfect. He is better than your average CB at most PL clubs and does his job as instructed and very well.

People might prefer a different style of CB but he works for how we defend delaying attacks to get numbers back.

He’s absolutely a solid option for us and his one glaring weakness was aerial battles which he has improved.

Not being treated as the worst PL defender. I just think he gets alot of criticism.

Post lockdown, I would say he was our best defender.

Agreed.

 

[yan man utd]

All out pro like Giroud and bully experts sniff out the weakness in him, thats why they try him.

He cost us the FA cup vs Chelsea and somehow got the blame shifted on to De Gea. His head clearance is weak. He is very indecisive
I have nothing against him and cheer for him for our NT. I just don't think he cuts it for us. He did some things well and is improving, but is he all that great going forward?

Granted everyone can have a bad day and many were uncaring or glad we got eliminated in the FA to salvage a UCL it still looked bad and the energy was already spent and they were in same situation as us and needed to rotate.

Highlights for FA cup vs Chelsea



2.40 Giroud clearly went for Lindelöf like a tommahawk missle.
4.05 fingerpointing to Fred to solve it once he was passed indecisiveness and confusion cost us 2nd goals .
6.45 close call was a tourist on the corner, saved by DeGea
6.50 yet again indecisiveness costing us a goal, pointing vs acting.

One match out of many, bad day for him, but sooner or later the close calls will be converted like this and i stand by my analysis. Over a season it detracts from synergy and costs points. Wish him the best for our NT and the club, but unless he steps up his game at a faster pace he will be replaced sooner than later.

I couldn’t agree more. So many people can see that strikers are literally rubbing their hands when they know they are up against lindelof in fact they go to the area he is defending because they are so confident of beating him to the ball if it’s a duel!
I’ve read so many posts. Nobody is saying lindelof is awful - just not good enough for United’s first team and he makes me nervous!

 

[yan man utd]

i can see it. I have said numerous times that our central defensive spine isnt good enough (DM, CB, GK). I think we definitely need a DM and CB this summer

But we also need Sancho and squad depth as well. Bit we wont go out and buy 5 players this summer, only 2-3.

Thank you Izec ! Unbelievable how some people are still standing firm behind this belief that change is somehow not needed in a defensive spine that looks unconvincing and that I’m afraid extends to first lindelof, second de gea and third an albeit in form but aging Matic.

First and cheapest way to upgrade / solVe the problem is being Henderson in - he is ours so no cost and he looks so much more alert and aggressive than. De gea. 2nd try smalling for a run of games alongside Maguire. A far more intimidating CB pairing (again no cost). 3rd well deadwood inc sanchez, rojo, Jones, dalot/pereira possibly Bailly as he is always injured.
Next buy sancho and Grealish. It’s doable ... can you imagine the transformation...

Henderson

AWB/Williams Smalling Maguire shaw/Williams

Neves / Matic

Pogba /feed / mctominay

Fernandes / Grealish

sancho/greenwood. Rashford/martial/Grealish
Martial/ Greenwood


that’s a nucleus of players that can challenge for the league

 

[Adnan]

To those saying 'he hasn't made mistakes costing a goal' and 'show me the statistics where he's had a negative influence', that's like me saying Lingard had a high pass completion rate as an attacking midfielder and did a lot of pressing from the front. That's not the actual fecking point because his lack of quality meant our whole attack suffered as a result.

People point to Lindelof's passiveness because he back peddles and makes our WHOLE team drop 5-15 yards because he doesn't want to take responsibility. No one is saying he has to go win the ball every time or make a tackle but he's got to hassle and stop the ball/put pressure at the point of play. Not shepherd them into our own half. His performance against Leicester was really good. Like really good but this is a rare example. For those saying he's been better or of a similar form to Maguire are nuts. One takes responsibility and has high peaks of performance and dominance. The other plays well by sweeping up and being positionally clean. The Leicester games are 1 every 15. He rarely exceeds or excels individually.

At times, his cautioness is a good quality but that's like 4/10 instances. The other 6/10 are just weak plays. Waiting for your team mates to cover space means you're not individually strong enough to deal with it. It's smart play because he knows his limitations, which is basically plenty evidence that he's limited. The fact is, you're not dealing with Messi in those other 6/10 situations ffs.

It's not unique to him and our whole team is inefficient in pressing/closing space but he is the absolutely the weakest link in the defence imo. People point about the great defensive record we've had this year and sure you've got hand 'credit' to him for being fit but AWB (who has locked down Lindelof's side of the pitch for most of the season), Maguire and Shaw's contribution far outweights his.

I've said it before many many times but he's 6/10 placeholder of a player. Nothing more, nothing less.

Those trying to make it out like he's a 7/10 or can regularly play like a 8 are just fanboys, which is fine but accept the reality that he's never consistently shown he can really deliver high quality performances. That's something to a lesser extent something Maguire has shown all season; not £80m worth but clearly a level above.

One more thing I will add is that there's a lot polarising opinions in all of the player's thread so again it's not unique to him but the thing that stands out the most is that those players have shown ELITE abilities and performances. Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Bruno, Matic, Fred, Maguire, De Gea even your Shaws and AWBs. Lindelof has not shown anything close to those to warrant this staunch defending of such a mediocre player. The only thing he's shown regularly is the ability to be on the pitch as a body.

You make a great point about his back peddaling and passiveness which makes the whole dynamic retreat 5 - 15 yards.

Ole wants to press high and to effectively press high you need your CBs to contest/challenge for the ball in a high-line which Lindelof doesn't do hence our press from the front looks disorganised. It also gives the opposition a out and relieves pressure whereby the opponent regroups and makes us retreat in defensive transition. Maguire on the other hand will contest for the ball in such a scenario to help pin the opposition. But with Lindelof's passive jockeying style, he leaves the opponent with a out-ball option which is a killer for a team who want to press high. He isn't the only weakness in that regard with Matic and De Gea also being culprits to varying degrees.

 

[yan man utd]

You make a great point about his back peddaling and passiveness which makes the whole dynamic retreat 5 - 15 yards.

Ole wants to press high and to effectively press high you need your CBs to contest/challenge for the ball in a high-line which Lindelof doesn't do hence our press from the front looks disorganised. It also gives the opposition a out and relieves pressure whereby the opponent regroups and makes us retreat in defensive transition. Maguire on the other hand will contest for the ball in such a scenario to help pin the opposition. But with Lindelof's passive jockeying style, he leaves the opponent with a out-ball option which is a killer for a team who want to press high. He isn't the only weakness in that regard with Matic and De Gea also being culprits to varying degrees.

Music to my ears. This is what I have been saying all along -it’s the outstanding critical weakness in our play - simple as that ...

By identifying this and making sure we examine it and make people take theIr rose tinted glasses off the sooner we are likely to address the problem. There are polarising views like the idea that Smalling and AWB can’t play together when AWB has actually been masking lindelofs frailties. Yes lindelof is a back peddler, no he does not have have the confidence to squeeze the midfield with our own press or to bring the ball out of defence or to impose himself in sync with our own press which confuses our entire game plan. It’s no use our forwards pressing if our midfield and defence don’t follow up - otherwise you leave vast swathes of the pitch free in the middle of the pitch - which average teams have exploited!

it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see it - we can see it with our own eyes...

 

[A-man]

It’s good to win back the ball early to keep press but you have to evaluate when you should follow the attacker and when to tackle. Lindelof is last man covering for the others and cannot afford to miss a tackle. Most of the time, if the opponent can hit a well timed cross to the attacker, there was no longer any press (or they couldn’t hit a well timed long ball).

 

[Andycoleno9]

Lindelof passive? Every month something. Guy thinks with his head and never leaves defence unprotected. But sure, it is better to have defenders like Maguire, Bailly or Smalling who all look only on the ball and then, after they miss their "hero" tackle, they leave whole defence wide open. And then some posters come and say; "If Lindelof is fast why he didn't covered all that empty space?"

I know why Phil Jones was rated all these years. He is a defender who's main game style is to go in tackles in every chance.

 

[ivaldo]

Lindelof passive? Every month something. Guy thinks with his head and never leaves defence unprotected. But sure, it is better to have defenders like Maguire, Bailly or Smalling who all look only on the ball and then, after they miss their "hero" tackle, they leave whole defence wide open. And then some posters come and say; "If Lindelof is fast why he didn't covered all that empty space?"

I know why Phil Jones was rated all these years. He is a defender who's main game style is to go in tackles in every chance.

It's because the stats are alarmingly in his favour. He doesn't make mistakes often, he doesn't get beaten in the air all that often, he doesn't miss challenges or gets dribbled past, and he doesn't give the ball away easily. Now our defense is looking like one of the best in Europe - which is supported by stats - those naysayers who can't admit they were wrong and he's a good player, begin to dig deeper in order to find fault. There was some maniacs bringing up instances of Carrick from a decade ago in order to 'prove' Lindelof was slow. It's a bit weird. At the same time, those posters will dig in to defend other players who are making far more errors in a game than Victor.

 

[VojjE]

Things Lindelöf does well defensively

-Positioning. Doesn't mess up the offside line and knows where he is needed.
-Blocking shots and key passes, both in midfield and in/around the box.
-Knowing when to slow down opposition attacks and when he can nick the ball. Very good at catching on to a poor touch
-Forcing opponents to take shots at poor angles/in a way that makes it easy for the keeper to catch
-Directing the defense
-Not getting flustered when passing with keeper/defense

Things he doesn't do very well

-Defensive corners, losing his mark or not seeing that another player should take priority as they have lost their marker.
-Not the strongest, but it appears this is something he is working on.
-Heads the ball short, misdirects it at times.

 

[romufc]

Lindelof passive? Every month something. Guy thinks with his head and never leaves defence unprotected. But sure, it is better to have defenders like Maguire, Bailly or Smalling who all look only on the ball and then, after they miss their "hero" tackle, they leave whole defence wide open. And then some posters come and say; "If Lindelof is fast why he didn't covered all that empty space?"

I know why Phil Jones was rated all these years. He is a defender who's main game style is to go in tackles in every chance.

This is the problem, the fans want to see Lindelof winning a header and clamping someone, It is not going to happen. He is a modern day defender, they are more technical defenders, avoiding the need to keep sliding around.