[Bwuk]

Right. I think a player of Smalling's level can easily pass a ball between the lines if there is movement up front and risk is encouraged, so that is not the issue here. I don't know how you can call anyone a clown for thinking defenders should be good at defending before passing though. It sort of says whats important in the name "defenders". Maybe we should instead call it "centre pass it out from the backers"

Smalling can’t, he can barely control a ball half the time. Watching him set his feet and position on the ball is cringeworthy, you can see why he can’t get near the England set up.

15 years ago he’d of been fine, but the games changed. Majority of teams against top sides park the bus.

City for example - Stones/Laporte can both pass.
Spurs - Toby/Vertonghen.

You need players who can shift the ball forward and keep the play moving. If you take too long teams can reset their position, and this is why we struggled so badly under Jose. We’d take forever to start attacks and we’d get crowded out.

 

[NoLogo]

Last time I saw a CB sprint like this along the length of the entire pitch was Lucio. Looked like a proper defender tonight and got involved in our attacking play from time to time which was great to see.

 

[Red Stone]

Right. I think a player of Smalling's level can easily pass a ball between the lines if there is movement up front and risk is encouraged, so that is not the issue here. I don't know how you can call anyone a clown for thinking defenders should be good at defending before passing though. It sort of says whats important in the name "defenders". Maybe we should instead call it "centre pass it out from the backers"

Does that look like a guy that can easily and reliably pass a ball between the lines against top level opposition? Bonucci, Ramos and Thiago Silva wouldn't be caught dead doing that shit.

You only need to see him play once to see that he's hilariously far behind most other centre backs in the league on the ball. He lacks both the technique and the passing range to reliably bring the ball forward in an attacking team. Absolute machine of a defender on his day, though.

 

[MikeKing]

Smalling can’t, he can barely control a ball half the time. Watching him set his feet and position on the ball is cringeworthy, you can see why he can’t get near the England set up.

15 years ago he’d of been fine, but the games changed. Majority of teams against top sides park the bus.

City for example - Stones/Laporte can both pass.
Spurs - Toby/Vertonghen.

You need players who can shift the ball forward and keep the play moving. If you take too long teams can reset their position, and this is why we struggled so badly under Jose. We’d take forever to start attacks and we’d get crowded out.

No. We didn't take forever to start attacks because of Smalling? What are you on about? He took part in most of the games we played very well in these last few years, are you refusing this fact? Mourinho's setup has been very careful, and as you've seen with Lindelof against a bottom team yesterday, being able to take advantage of space is key. Nobody in our squad, let alone a defender with suspect technical abilities would have done that under Mourinho Smalling has little problem with controlling a ball to the quality expected of a defender, when has he ever made a mistake due to his lack of diligence on the ball? That is what matters ultimately, imo. Just because you have a different opinion doesn't make others people clowns, you know.

 

[Bwuk]

No. We didn't take forever to start attacks because of Smalling? What are you on about? He took part in most of the games we played very well in these last few years, are you refusing this fact? Mourinho's setup has been very careful, and as you've seen with Lindelof against a bottom team yesterday, being able to take advantage of space is key. Nobody in our squad, let alone a defender with suspect technical abilities would have done that under Mourinho Smalling has little problem with controlling a ball to the quality expected of a defender, when has he ever made a mistake due to his lack of diligence on the ball? That is what matters ultimately, imo. Just because you have a different opinion doesn't make others people clowns, you know.

Bolded- in how many games have we aimlessly passed the ball in our own third because no-one has the ability or confidence to go forward with the ball?

 

[CM]

The chance he created for Rashford is the kind of thing I had in mind when we were promised 'The Iceman'. It made a nice change seeing him look confident bringing the ball out like that compared to the bumbling mess of last season.

 

[SER19]

Possibly the player who’s role looked the most changed yesterday? Very early days of course but lindelof seemed to have a different remit yesterday

 

[criticalanalysis]

I think both Lindelof and Jones played well.

I've had my fair share of criticising Smalling but I think he could have a key role to play if we continue to play this high line due his coverage, speed and athleticism.

Also in a team with passing options, he can do a job passing wise.

 

[MikeKing]

Bolded- in how many games have we aimlessly passed the ball in our own third because no-one has the ability or confidence to go forward with the ball?

You think this is because of Smalling. Got it. The common denominator of Van Gaal and Mourinho, our best defender is the reason our attack has been trash. Right.

I'm not even saying he is amazing on the ball here, I'm just pointing out you called people clowns for downplaying something going against popular belief.

Does that look like a guy that can easily and reliably pass a ball between the lines against top level opposition? Bonucci, Ramos and Thiago Silva wouldn't be caught dead doing that shit.

You only need to see him play once to see that he's hilariously far behind most other centre backs in the league on the ball. He lacks both the technique and the passing range to reliably bring the ball forward in an attacking team. Absolute machine of a defender on his day, though.

To be honest, I don't expect fans of Real Madrid, Juventus or PSG to make videos of every misplaced pass their best defender make but fine. I have not said he is on the level of those guys when it comes to passing. I have implied that passing is not worth much, if you can't defend too though. I would rather have a Stam or Vidic in our squad next to an incompetent defender rather than a Rio without the defensive skills, because defending is ultimately the point, ignoring all context of a teams tactics. In relevance to a teams tactics then if the point is solely to outscore the opposition with no care how much one's team concede then sure, just play midfielders as CB's as they will ultimately be the best passers anyways no?

 

[Patrick08]

He’s a player that does better when we set up aggressively. Ask him to push forward with the ball or get on the attackers first touch and he does very well. Ask him to sit deeper and he can get exposed.

He’s still getting routinely questioned, but as far as I’m concerned he is our best CB.

It's the stuff, Jose dint get.

 

[deafepl]

I think both Lindelof and Jones played well.

I've had my fair share of criticising Smalling but I think he could have a key role to play if we continue to play this high line due his coverage, speed and athleticism.

Also in a team with passing options, he can do a job passing wise.

That would mean Lindelof would become more limited on LCB as Smalling can't play there. Ole seems to prefer him because passing and good on balls is one of the Lindelof's strongest keys, so there's no place for Smalling on RCB. Hopefully, Jones can be replaced by Koulibaly on LCB as Jones can't stay fit. Koulibaly is good as Smalling in speed and athleticism, Koulibaly and Lindelof partnership will give new dimensions to the attacking.

 

[RedTiger]

We are Manchester United. We shouldn’t be sitting deep and shitting ourselves. Lindelof has shown he can sit deep with Sweden anyway.

This

 

[gajender]

That would mean Lindelof would become more limited on LCB as Smalling can't play there. Ole seems to prefer him because passing and good on balls is one of the Lindelof's strongest keys, so there's no place for Smalling on RCB. Hopefully, Jones can be replaced by Koulibaly on LCB as Jones can't stay fit. Koulibaly is good as Smalling in speed and athleticism, Koulibaly and Lindelof partnership will give new dimensions to the attacking.

I am no fan of Smalling but let's not get ahead of ourselves he is currently injured so it's too early to tell whether Solskjaer prefers other's ahead of him or not.

 

[RedCurry]

Had a decent game today. Brilliant run and pass. Looks weak in challenges still but a possession game would suit him well like most of our other players. I am not convinced by him but I think he’ll do for now perhaps.

 

[haram]

The ball is played on to his right foot. He immediately is opening his body and is ready to forward the play. It's simple things but we obviously need this across the back four.

 

[Ace of Spades]

He was great. Hopefully this increases his confidence and he gets even better. We bought him for his ball playing ability, and as his confidence increases, we should see more of that regularly.

 

[Adisa]

Thought that was Herrera.
"We cannot play out from the back".

 

[Raees]

His defending in physical situations is still very shaky but on the ball he was flawless today. Showed he’s a talent with ball at his feet, great ball carrying out of defence and good passing between the lines.

Looking forward to seeing him unleashed in that sense.

 

[Giant Midget]

I think both Lindelof and Jones played well.

I've had my fair share of criticising Smalling but I think he could have a key role to play if we continue to play this high line due his coverage, speed and athleticism.

Also in a team with passing options, he can do a job passing wise.

Smalling plays RCB, which would mean Lindelof would have to go to LCB. I think if you want to get the best out of Lindelof, he has to be RCB, which means Smalling and him can't play together. Bailly, Jones, Rojo are the alternatives if Lindelof cements himself at RCB.

 

[Adisa]

That Smalling clip. Bless him .
Still remember Mourinho's comments before the EL final.

 

[A-man]

When Mourinho left he also brought the handbrake with him and now we could see what happened. It was not only Lindelof, it looked as the whole team were playing football in a way they’d wanted to play for a long time. Now there are a few games against average teams. Hopefully they can build on this to get back confidence and find their way back. Player by player there is talent and offensive potential in this team. We could see that in Lindelofs run and even more in Martial’s goal which was worthy of Messi/Iniesta at their peak.

 

[Fracture90]

He was very good today, those incursions into the opposition half were especially good, that chance he created for Rashford was great. One thing I'm still worried is his lack of pace and strength, think he'll be most effective in back 3 where his passing can be used to the max, but in the same time his deficiencies would be covered .

 

[DWelbz19]

This guy.

 

[Dante]

This guy.

 

[moodyred]

When we play attacking soccer, all our defenders will look better because the opponent doesn't keep coming at us.

It is a nice change to see us play attacking soccer, and even our defenders are going forward. If Lindelof can keep this up, then he might convince me that he is united material.

 

[Fracture90]

When we play attacking soccer, all our defenders will look better because the opponent doesn't keep coming at us.

It is a nice change to see us play attacking soccer, and even our defenders are going forward. If Lindelof can keep this up, then he might convince me that he is united material.

Goddammit take that shiit outta here!

 

[OldPop]

Goddammit take that shiit outta here!

Calm, it's just another word for football, nothing dangerous at all

 

[bond19821982]

Goddammit take that shiit outta here!

Why ?

 

[Eric's Seagull]

You think this is because of Smalling. Got it. The common denominator of Van Gaal and Mourinho, our best defender is the reason our attack has been trash. Right.

I'm not even saying he is amazing on the ball here, I'm just pointing out you called people clowns for downplaying something going against popular belief.


To be honest, I don't expect fans of Real Madrid, Juventus or PSG to make videos of every misplaced pass their best defender make but fine. I have not said he is on the level of those guys when it comes to passing. I have implied that passing is not worth much, if you can't defend too though. I would rather have a Stam or Vidic in our squad next to an incompetent defender rather than a Rio without the defensive skills, because defending is ultimately the point, ignoring all context of a teams tactics. In relevance to a teams tactics then if the point is solely to outscore the opposition with no care how much one's team concede then sure, just play midfielders as CB's as they will ultimately be the best passers anyways no?

I'd take Stam over any defender is seen play since supporting United 25 years ago. A beast. Especially liked the time Ivan Zamorano tried bumping him and seemed as if he rebounded off a brick wall

 

[Velvet Revolver]

This thread has turned into a smalling v lindelof disucssion!

I dont understand why fans are expecting smalling to suddenly be a ball playing defender! A team doesnt need all CB's to be ball playing, its good to have it but not a requirement. For every rio there is a vidic and that is good to have a balance as long as they know what thier strengths are and what the team mates weaknesses are. Both smalling and lindelof can play in a team with one supporting the other no?

 

[OldPop]

Goddammit take that shiit outta here!

If the message is that we should not accept anything other than correct English, it might be a little wrong ...

 

[haram]

This thread has turned into a smalling v lindelof disucssion!

I dont understand why fans are expecting smalling to suddenly be a ball playing defender! A team doesnt need all CB's to be ball playing, its good to have it but not a requirement. For every rio there is a vidic and that is good to have a balance as long as they know what thier strengths are and what the team mates weaknesses are. Both smalling and lindelof can play in a team with one supporting the other no?

Vidic was much better than Smalling on the ball. We can get what Smalling offers in another player who is also good on the ball. If we really want to upgrade the first choice defence that’s what we need.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Vidic was much better than Smalling on the ball. We can get what Smalling offers in another player who is also good on the ball. If we really want to upgrade the first choice defence that’s what we need.

Agree, But Lindelof is no Rio either so it has been judged fairly. I am fully on board that we need to upgrade on the smalling's of the world. But all defenders are not same so expect smalling to be a ball playing defender is not correct. The same way you cant say lindelof is not a good defender because of his aerial abilities

ultimately defenders do their weaknesses and will try to compensate to reduce mistakes.

 

[A-man]

This thread has turned into a smalling v lindelof disucssion!

I dont understand why fans are expecting smalling to suddenly be a ball playing defender! A team doesnt need all CB's to be ball playing, its good to have it but not a requirement. For every rio there is a vidic and that is good to have a balance as long as they know what thier strengths are and what the team mates weaknesses are. Both smalling and lindelof can play in a team with one supporting the other no?

Risk is they will compete for the right cb position. Then there will be vs situation.

 

[bond19821982]

Vidic was much better than Smalling on the ball. We can get what Smalling offers in another player who is also good on the ball. If we really want to upgrade the first choice defence that’s what we need.

Vidic wasn't great either on the ball. Better than Smalling means nothing though .

 

[MikeKing]

Risk is they will compete for the right cb position. Then there will be vs situation.

If Solskjaer wants to use Lindelof on the right then I see no reason why Smalling wouldn't start on the left. I'll bet once he is fit that is exactly whats going to happen.

 

[criticalanalysis]

That would mean Lindelof would become more limited on LCB as Smalling can't play there. Ole seems to prefer him because passing and good on balls is one of the Lindelof's strongest keys, so there's no place for Smalling on RCB. Hopefully, Jones can be replaced by Koulibaly on LCB as Jones can't stay fit. Koulibaly is good as Smalling in speed and athleticism, Koulibaly and Lindelof partnership will give new dimensions to the attacking.

Smalling plays RCB, which would mean Lindelof would have to go to LCB. I think if you want to get the best out of Lindelof, he has to be RCB, which means Smalling and him can't play together. Bailly, Jones, Rojo are the alternatives if Lindelof cements himself at RCB.

Hm didn't think of Smalling's one footedness there.

The problem is all of our defenders have their pros and cons but Smalling is undeniably our best defender and also the best one to sweep up/be last man because of his coverage.

I'm not comfortable with the thought of our defence without Smalling in it against top teams. It could work though if after time, we become a pressing machine like OGS wants.

 

[MikeKing]

Hm didn't think of Smalling's one footedness there.

If he plays on that side it is because Lindelof will get more licence to go forward, which will not only make Smalling the only choice to partner him but it will mean he will sit back more and his time on the ball should be limited by affording Lindelof the privilege of being aggressive. So his left foot shouldn't have to play a big part in our game anyways. However I think it might work better if we reverse the sides for them and let Smalling press upfield on the right while Lindelof sits back and makes something out of some of the inevitable back passes after we've won the ball higher up.

 

[MikeKing]

Vidic was much better than Smalling on the ball. We can get what Smalling offers in another player who is also good on the ball. If we really want to upgrade the first choice defence that’s what we need.

I disagree with your first point. Both capable of the odd 'in the stands' failed pass, but both generally passed safe and sound. While Vidic was more relaxed and calm on the ball, Smalling has better technique and touch.

It is much easier to buy a better player than Lindelof than a player like Smalling. There is a lot of players that are better than Lindelof on the ball and also better than him at defending, without being better than Smalling.

 

[MadDogg]

While Vidic was more relaxed and calm on the ball, Smalling has better technique and touch.

What? I'm one of Smalling's biggest fans on here, but that's not remotely true.

I find Vidic to be significantly underrated these days in terms of his ability on the ball. Over the years he improved a hell of a lot in that regard, to the extent that (combined with Rio's declining on-the-ball ability) he was better than Rio towards the end. He wasn't great passing through the middle, but he quite regularly played great raking balls out wide to our winger or fullbacks to start attacks.