VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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You daft tart.
Would be one way for Amorim to make his entrance.I have seen clubs and managers doing that in other leagues. At least to get attention and put light on this issue.
You daft tart.
Who did that?
Every club has conspiracist obsessed fans that think there is an agenda against them, Liverpool, Arsenal, United, Ipswich, Southampton etc etc could all point to many dodgy decisions every season, it happens. It's incompetency rather than someone deliberately risking their career or making themselves look stupid by making the wrong calls.
The one that comes to my mind quickly is Fenerbahce leaving after some minutes in s cup final.
We have been reading lots of time teams leaving because of racist abuse. Different but still, to put light on it.
You’re quite right that racist abuse is different to perceived unfair treatment by referees.
I don’t want to imagine how badly fecked we’d be if we attempted a public feud against PGMOL, especially one involving a fecking protest. They’d dock us enough points to see us relegated for bringing the game into disrepute. We’d get feck all support from anyone. Nottingham Forest went from having a bit of sympathy from the public to being absolutely battered in the media for their attack
Liverpool and Arsenal are definitely better at calling out refereeing mistakes than we are, and it definitely wins them decisions.
Referees are afraid to upset Liverpool in particular, almost as much as they were Fergie back in the day.
Referees are afraid to upset Liverpool in particular, almost as much as they were Fergie back in the day.
It's good they're trialling the challenge system, VAR breaks games up way too often. Could see in the efl cup how much better the spectacle is without it.
The other big problem is all the gray areas and unenforced laws. If you forensically analyse a whole game on video, you could give about 10 penalties to each team from minor fouls in the box / holding offences.
Foul throws and GK holding the ball too long are totally ignored 99.99% of the time. Yellows for dissent and holding the game up are very sporadic.
It's all a shambles really that you can't digitise.
The other big problem is all the gray areas and unenforced laws. If you forensically analyse a whole game on video, you could give about 10 penalties to each team from minor fouls in the box / holding offences.
Foul throws and GK holding the ball too long are totally ignored 99.99% of the time. Yellows for dissent and holding the game up are very sporadic.
It's all a shambles really that you can't digitise.
Agreed, we need to do more of that, calling our refs.
I remember at the start of last season, we had alot of questionable decisions against us.
In my opinion, VAR would work far better if you had 3 VAR's for each match rather than 2... and they all work independently from one another. For the referee to be called to make a review, ALL 3 have to press a button. This should ensure VAR is only getting involved for clear mistakes.
PGMOL could also monitor the data and if the same VAR is more frequently finding themselves in a minority of 1 in either asking for a review, or failing to... they are obviously shit and need binning or sent for some extra training.
PGMOL could also monitor the data and if the same VAR is more frequently finding themselves in a minority of 1 in either asking for a review, or failing to... they are obviously shit and need binning or sent for some extra training.
That's a really good idea.
It would help with the 'clear and obvious' element too as if it's all three VAR then it's very clearly an obvious error whereas if it's one or two it means its more subjective.
Clearly Oliver forced Coote to take a wrong decision because "he wanted it". In a fair system, there will be repercussions for Oliver,
I think the problem we have is that when Liverpool call out a decision the media unequivocally come out and back them and turn the pressure up on the referees. If Arsenal do it the media don’t push back and if we were to do it it becomes a scandal with article upon article showing how we’ve benefitted in the past.
So they haven’t really improved their communication processes at all then? Embarrassing.
It's bordering on a weekly occurrence now that "the best referee in English football" is making consistently awful decisions that change games.
I don't care for all these "It was a mistake, we admit that" type things. It's just false PR. How about we address the fact that Michael Oliver is repeatedly throwing into question the integrity of referees in the PL.
Either knock him down a few leagues or sack him. Whether intentional or not does not matter. One is incompetence, the other is blatant interference.
I don't care for all these "It was a mistake, we admit that" type things. It's just false PR. How about we address the fact that Michael Oliver is repeatedly throwing into question the integrity of referees in the PL.
Either knock him down a few leagues or sack him. Whether intentional or not does not matter. One is incompetence, the other is blatant interference.
I cannot remember all the details of the game but, since the 5-2 against Leicester several years ago, I have been convinced that Oliver has a very strong bias against United that influences his decisions. He did everything he could this time to get that penalty given, can't stand the sight of him even when reffing other games.
It seems to me Oliver got that decision wrong on all levels:
- Factual - he told Coote that there was no touch on the ball, despite replays indicating that there was;
- Technical - it wasn’t a foul and that should have been clear to any competent referee;
- VAR - it clearly didn’t meet the current “ clear and obvious” requirement even if, somehow; he did think it was a possible foul.
When you add that he seemingly refused to show Coote any other angles and more or less ignored his other question about control of the ball, it’s not a good look.
Definitely feels one where a shrug of the shoulders and a “mistakes happen” reaction from Webb is insufficient.
- Factual - he told Coote that there was no touch on the ball, despite replays indicating that there was;
- Technical - it wasn’t a foul and that should have been clear to any competent referee;
- VAR - it clearly didn’t meet the current “ clear and obvious” requirement even if, somehow; he did think it was a possible foul.
When you add that he seemingly refused to show Coote any other angles and more or less ignored his other question about control of the ball, it’s not a good look.
Definitely feels one where a shrug of the shoulders and a “mistakes happen” reaction from Webb is insufficient.
In fairness to Coote, he’s then left in a very difficult position. There have been rumours he’s a United sympathiser before, so he’s probably even less keen to overrule the senior referee telling him he’s made a clear and obvious error in one of our matches, knowing the storm that would create. His reaction to me is of someone who is very much not convinced it’s the right call but doesn’t feel he can argue.
He got a lot of backlash for giving us a dodgy decision against Swansea in Mourinho's first season and I think he's been scared to make a mistake in our favour since.
I think the idea that someone can be convincing you of something is wrong, it means you are no longer the referee, the other guy is. I don't see why they can't just give the refs a smartphone or something and prompt them to re watch events rather than coach them into decisions at a big daft screen.
Until the PL/FA takes this very seriously and going very hard on referees for making these silly basic mistakes nothing is going to change. And we know very well that referees have been doing these school boy errors for decades and nothing happened to them.
Scrap the VAR if this is the standard of refereeing that we are getting week in week out. Shameful.
Scrap the VAR if this is the standard of refereeing that we are getting week in week out. Shameful.
I agree completely.
I do think the media do it because Liverpool fans in particular hold them accountable. We need to get better at using our numbers and if Sky are taking the piss, letting them know by either boycotting or at least calling them out on social media.
Largely though this stuff comes from the manager. Ten Hag whined a bit but he whined about lots of stuff so it got lost in the noise - he was also quiet far too often after terrible decisions went against us. Same with Ole before him. Klopp and Arteta are arseholes but by and large, they get away with calling out bad calls - Amorim needs to do the same from the start.
That sounds incredibly paranoid, to be honest. Why would “the media” treat the three clubs so differently?
A few reasons. First is click bait. Anti-United bias gains clicks rage baiting United fans and rival fans love to read it - we’re a meme club currently so fun to mock and antagonise.
Liverpool on the other hand start change.org protests that gain 600k signatures at the slightest whiff of criticism against them and various media orgs are absolutely riddled with Liverpool fans. ESPN’s editorial might as well be stationed out of Anfield and the Telegraph Twitter feed for a long time had 10 gushing Liverpool articles for every 1 article about any other club. It’s a completely different narrative for United vs Liverpool and nobody gives a feck about Arsenal.
I reckon there's a lot of confirmation bias at work here. Same way so many football fans are convinced that referees are out to get their team and their team only.
Just because we're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after us.
I am so smart, I am so smart, S M R T
I am so smart, I am so smart, S M R T
Michael Oliver is the worst official in England. A myth developed around him when he was young and promoted and they've been drowning in trying to maintain it since, while he has proven himself to be a massive let down and a terrible, inconsistent official, that has brought the integrity of the game into question and has allowed his ego to referee huge matches. Countless huge decisions and controversial ones in the last decade have involved Oliver, and often in very rarely seen red card situations like the Dalot one.
He's a little ego maniac, who thinks because hes adjacent to professional athletes, he is one too. I dont doubt for a second that he absolutely revels when is his name is in the papers, usually with the comofrt blanket of 'best referee in england' tagged on someplace.
If anybody thinks he judged the de ligt tackle worth interefering for, and the doku chest kick as not a foul, for any reason other than corruption, I think you're naive.
He's a little ego maniac, who thinks because hes adjacent to professional athletes, he is one too. I dont doubt for a second that he absolutely revels when is his name is in the papers, usually with the comofrt blanket of 'best referee in england' tagged on someplace.
If anybody thinks he judged the de ligt tackle worth interefering for, and the doku chest kick as not a foul, for any reason other than corruption, I think you're naive.
If he is a United sympathizer, we can kiss all hope of getting some goodbye. Can't disparage Klopp or Liverpool on film and hope to survive.
The more these mic'd up things are released I wonder why the VAR ref needs to talk at all.
Alert the referee they'd like him to look at something and then say nothing else. Let the ref review it independently of anyone else's opinion.
We get this rhetoric about the on pitch ref being the one to make the final decision then why add any chance of influencing him. Call him over, show a minimum of 3 angles, real time and slomo and from there the ref gives a decision. Don't know what there needs to be a fckin discussion tbh
Alert the referee they'd like him to look at something and then say nothing else. Let the ref review it independently of anyone else's opinion.
We get this rhetoric about the on pitch ref being the one to make the final decision then why add any chance of influencing him. Call him over, show a minimum of 3 angles, real time and slomo and from there the ref gives a decision. Don't know what there needs to be a fckin discussion tbh
Apparently a ref sticking with the on field decision has only happened twice in the PL since VAR came in. Absolutely shocking stuff, at the very least the protocols HAVE to change. That audio from the West Ham game is damning, the VAR has too much influence.
Coote is really screwed now. Bad week for him.
Video of him doing some nose beers. Looks like there’s quite a bit out there about him. He’s finished.
Golden rule is no phones in the crack den and this is why
Stay away from cameras. Snort responsibly!!!
He was on coke? Who could have thunk it.
Mental how people allow themselves to be filmed doing this
Muppet.
He'll be demoted to linesman.
Apparently he sent the video/pictures to a “mate”. Said mate has spoken to the Sun as obviously they want Cootes to get the appropriate help.
The looper apparently filmed it himself and sent it to friends from the hotel he was staying at during the Euros: