You see violent play instances like Martinez all the time and I've never seen anyone red carded for it unless they make contact
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Kompany got sent off Vs us for jumping in two footed and not touching Nani
I'll give you that one
Scholes got sent off v Liverpool for missing Xabi Alonso when he tried to punch him.
Mind you, I don't think today should have been red.
I think it was about as Orange as you could get... Couldn't have had much complaints if he had got sent off.
If he landed his feet on him red card. No problem. We can’t have ”ifs”. Otherwise every tackle or keeper punching ball could be seen as red card offence.Butcher gonna butcher right ? hehehe Top Red
Look at answer above.
In theory, yes you can get sent off without making contact, but those kind of dismissals are very rare and highñy debatable. The ref called it right, here. Definitely a dangerous challenge, but he got the ball. Stephens absolutely clattered Bruno last weekend but it was a 'good' challenge because he timed it right; however, the 'danger' element was not questioned.
More worrying for me is that some people question the Jack Stephens red from last weekend. People are just biased against United.
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Initially I thought yellow was right. The more I see it, it should've been red... you can't go in like that, even 30 years ago.... the guy's got something wrong with him.
He's got no control as he's flying through the air and it's just luck that the palace player didn't put his leg slightly further forward than he did to shield the ball.
He's got no control as he's flying through the air and it's just luck that the palace player didn't put his leg slightly further forward than he did to shield the ball.
I thought it was a blatant red tbh. I don't buy the 'he didn't make contact so it can't be a red' argument because if that's the case why was a free kick and yellow awarded? What was he penalised for then?
The "banned for 4 months" call on twitter is wild though
The "banned for 4 months" call on twitter is wild though
But contact is not actually needed in this case...it is intent. And I am not sure how Martinez clarifies that action of his. That is not anywhere near a proper tackle. I don't know how you can argue that. The fact he misses him, puts him maybe outside of the red card, but that's a judgement call for the ref. I am not blaming the ref, he probably doesn't know what to do with it, but it was shocking of Martinez.
Except that keepers generally don't get red cards for accidently punching players in the face, see Onana last season.
If Martinez landed on the other players foot, it would have been the most clear red card this season probably, and I'd expect him to have gotten a lengthy ban. It's a crazy challenge.
VAR seemed to clear this quickly (felt so live). Think it’s their 5 that de Ligt is claiming.
He's asking for trouble, but didn't Rojo get away with a couple of two-footed challenges? Seems to be that if you don't make major or any contact then you will often be spared the red, even if you can get sent off for tackling like that.
A long time ago now, I remember this one from Henry:
Except punching the ball is something that is valid and allowed and double footing is not.
I think the rules differentiate between reckless and dangerous. Ref and VAR ruled the same
Crazy lunge...dangerous to both players. Weir could easily end up stepping into him and Henry could end up going through Weir. That could easily be a red I think.
Yes, reckless is yellow. Timber's challenge in the North London Derby was deemed reckless last week as was today's incident.
The wording for reds is either serious foul play or violent conduct. Now that's not to say there can't be debate over whether someting is reckless, serious foul play or violent conduct, but once it's ruled reckless it's a yellow.
It looks like he's trying turn someone's ankle into powder.
Viera got sent for fake kicking RVN back in the day
I think we were all wondering what he was trying to do there.. ther
Maybe he is trying that old mexican ...what was his name again.. Blanco's trick? I don't honestly know ehat he is doing. Dont see Martinez being a flair player, but im trying to give him the benefit of intent.
Beckham in the WC too...or did he make faint contact?
The lads ankle is a few inches the other side of the ball and Martinez just glances the opposite side.
If he’d really wanted to get his ankle, he could have just stretched either leg out.
Looks odd, is reckless (as a ref and VAR agreed), got the yellow that reckless tackles deserve.
Can you tell me what Martinez intent was?
We never know if intent of keepers are punchline ball or some head.
There is that if. Ofcourse it would have been red but he never touches him.
There is big gray area in both situations. There should be atleast contact before We talk about red card.
From that angle it looks a lot closer.
He got lucky, that's about it. Contact or not that could still be a red.
If anyone thinks there was no intent by Martinez they need to get their eyes examined. If he played for my own team I would admit as much. Should’ve have been a red even without contact.
I thought yellow was plenty, but "reckless" usually means red doesn't it?
Quite frankly, looking at it again, it looks like an attempt to injure more than anything else. I am speculating he might have been trying to trap the ball but it is reaching...Either way it goes out of the reckless category and plum in the dangerous one.
I dont think missing him gets him off completely. I understand what the ref did, but I would have gone with the dismissal. You simply cannot have that going around...missing or not. It's dangerous to the players.
No, it seems reckless can still be inadvertent or clumsy and hence a yellow. For me this goes in the dangerous category. I.e it should never be done and there is no time or place on the pitch where it might be acceptable to do it.
That's an absolute red for violent conduct.
No rules say reckless is yellow… same as Timbers tackle last week (or that’s what ref said).
It’s the endangerment to player safety that seems to shift the needle, actual not hypothetical. If he lands on far side of the ball/right next to player, it’d be dangerous/red.
Also think if sliding in (so momentum would take him into opponent), that’d make it dangerous and probably be a red. Was going straight down.
It’s one of those that United fans or neutral (or qualified refs and VAR it seems) say yellow, every opponent fan say red.
If the ref had decided it was dangerous enough to warrant a red despite the lack of contact, I don't think it would have been overturned and there would have been few real complaints given how ludicrous it was for Martinez to go in with both feet like that.
And obviously if he had made contact, it's a certain red.
He's a lucky boy.
And obviously if he had made contact, it's a certain red.
He's a lucky boy.
“Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball”.
Can something that doesn't make conduct can't ever be violent conduct?
It's more a "reckless" challenge sort of decision and we got away with it because his studs went into the ground not the player
Trying to remember someone being sent off for violent conduct but not making any contact?
Maybe Vieira trying to kick RVN?
Serious foul play then.
Yeah. Finding the justifications for this bizarre. You just can't go around doing shit like that and stay on the pitch.
Are you actually serious about this? Goalkeepers are allowed to use their hands giving them an advantage in having additional reach, hence they will attempt to punch the ball. There is absolutely no gray area in this and well within the rules.
What exactly do double footed tackles do? They get the ball with more force, but if they get the man, it’s potentially a leg breaker - hence more often than not, they lead to red cards. Red cards are given, or should be given, to eliminate them out of football, whether they get the ball or not. Just like swinging punches.