VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Solius said:
The disparity in the drama/debate between this Arsenal - Newcastle 'ball out of play' and the one we had against Brighton is stark btw.

Only Utd fans really spoke about our one whereas this Arsenal one is dominating the news, they're practically the same amount of 'out' looking and ours would've gotten us an equaliser.
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Because media picks and chooses what they want to be horrified about.
Not the same scenario, but Neville and Carragher were not moaning about the manager when Klopp was ranting and Liverpool put in official request and asking for VAR audios and stuff. But when Arsenal go overboard with their rant, they are so hurt and embarrassed and what not.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Because media picks and chooses what they want to be horrified about.
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Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
 
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
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It's clearly bollocks.

I've tried not to be too tinfoil hat but the general feckery in and surrounding our games this season has made me wonder what exactly is going on.
 
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
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It is obviously. The media has way too much power in football. From giving diver, moaner tags to players to picking and choosing decisions that they want to be horrified about. The refs and FA all are influenced by what media talks about.
 
TheGame said:
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A month ago he wasn't that supportive after Diaz offside. How wind changes quickly for some points and tap on shoulder. Tottenham manager seems nice guy but looking at situations they have been helped with by VAR and referees he need to be nice. TenHag should do the opposite. Go all in because we have lost 4 games because of VAR and referees. That is not normal.

RedDevil@84 said:
It is obviously. The media has way too much power in football. From giving diver, moaner tags to players to picking and choosing decisions that they want to be horrified about. The refs and FA all are influenced by what media talks about.
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ABU agenda. It is hard to think something else.
 
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
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It is, but it's basic populism isn't it? You won't get as many views / clicks campaigning for justice for us as you will claiming we've been favoured, because the latter supports the general (ill conceived) view that we only benefit from decisions which has been in place since our domination under Fergie. When you have two less interesting teams involved then just stoke up the general furore around VAR, it's better than being realistic about the decisions maybe having been right.

Views > integrity now for the media in a lot of cases, and certainly in Football.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Sometime the best solution of all is already right there, lodged in your subconscious....
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I don't have an issue with abolishing VAR but I doubt it'll do much to avoid the issues people are moaning about. People have been bitching about referees since time immemorial and it'd only take a few absolute howlers before people start claiming that "This wouldn't have happened with VAR".
 
The VAR genie isn't getting back in the bottle.

I'm all for time limits on VAR decisions. But more importantly, the refs need to get better, and the ref-VAR teams need to be in absolute sync.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
I don't have an issue with abolishing VAR but I doubt it'll do much to avoid the issues people are moaning about. People have been bitching about referees since time immemorial and it'd only take a few absolute howlers before people start claiming that "This wouldn't have happened with VAR".
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And they would be absolutely right.

Gentlemen, we can rebuild VAR. We have the technology. Let's make the process better so the game is more exciting with fewer errors
 
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
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It's complete bullshit. And we have many claiming "nothing to see here". Seems like a double standard in the media, at the very least.
 
Solius said:
The disparity in the drama/debate between this Arsenal - Newcastle 'ball out of play' and the one we had against Brighton is stark btw.

Only Utd fans really spoke about our one whereas this Arsenal one is dominating the news, they're practically the same amount of 'out' looking and ours would've gotten us an equaliser.
Click to expand...

I think the Arsenal/Newcastle game is still being discussed because Arteta threw a childish tantrum about it and Arsenal doubled down on it by releasing a statement. Lots of United fans have since said they wished United would do the same sometimes.
 
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Withnail said:
Credibility is not really increasing when it's Keys and some random backing up the claims.
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I really had a hard look in the mirror but I agree with him on this.

Why shouldn't fans hear the conversation? Why is the standard of reff'ing so bad?

Time for VAR to become a different entity and the refs work under it.
 
Solius said:
The disparity in the drama/debate between this Arsenal - Newcastle 'ball out of play' and the one we had against Brighton is stark btw.

Only Utd fans really spoke about our one whereas this Arsenal one is dominating the news, they're practically the same amount of 'out' looking and ours would've gotten us an equaliser.
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Ten Hag should speak up more, but imo if he said something to what Arteta said on Saturday, the reaction would be different and pundits will just turn around and say "well that Onana incident with Wolves, so ha hah, things just even themselves out
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I really had a hard look in the mirror but I agree with him on this.

Why shouldn't fans hear the conversation? Why is the standard of reff'ing so bad?

Time for VAR to become a different entity and the refs work under it.
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I'm talking about the conspiracy theory side of things. I wouldn't actually read any of old hairy hands stuff to know if he had a kernel of a point.

Absolutely it does need an overhaul and there should be more transparency. The clubs are flipping minted. Why can't they have big screens showing the replays and hear the refs talk their way through their decision making?
 
Withnail said:
I'm talking about the conspiracy theory side of things. I wouldn't actually read any of old hairy hands stuff to know if he had a kernel of a point.

Absolutely it does need an overhaul and there should be more transparency. The clubs are flipping minted. Why can't they have big screens showing the replays and hear the refs talk their way through their decision making?
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I'm guessing rightly or wrongly the police might have a problem with this, especially in gams with highly charged atmospheres such as Liverpool v United, Leeds v United. Leeds v Chelsea
 
WeePat said:
I think the Arsenal/Newcastle game is still being discussed because Arteta threw a childish tantrum about it and Arsenal doubled down on it by releasing a statement. Lots of United fans have since said they wished United would do the same sometimes.
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It is not childish. He is lifting something that will help them in longer run.

We have lost so many games this season because VAR and referees and our club is just silent. There were shocking decisions in Arsenal, Tottenham, Crystal Palace and ManCity games. Even those we won, we have been treated in bad way by refs and VAR. We are always playing against the wind.

What we should have done is demanded explanations after first game against Wolverhampton even if we won. Why didn't we get two penalties? Now, by staying silent, we let ABU people put some narrative that we were helped by referees when Wolves didn't get penalty after Onana hit their player. Agenda that have followed us since that game if we look at this season. 1 decision for. 99 decisions against. Not to mention previous seasons where we have been served same kind of treatment.
 
VAR would be easier to establish in a time when people weren't so infatuated with whining and claiming conspiracies and victimhood.

Name a fanbase that doesn't think the refs have an agenda against them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
To think that there’s a bunch of United fans who would prefer our manager to behave like that gobshite, Arteta, than this bloke?

Have a word with yourselves, will you?
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Feck Arteta, but I also don't care about Postecoglou kind of grand-standing. Talking shit in press conferences and influencing is part of the game, when done correctly.

Klopp did it to us when he claimed we were getting too many penalties in our favor and it worked. Sir Alex used to do it all the time. You have to do it with more class than that Arteta joker, but you also don't need to be the holier than the pope personality that Postecoglou is trying to channel.
 
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
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im half serious here but if we, say make top 4, by a virtue of 1 point im sure all the tabels of this season will be printed with an asterix next to our name. The asterix will read: Wolves should have had a pen against United
 
Another example of refs misinterpreting the freeze frame there for Maeda’s red.
 
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
Click to expand...
It's an absolute joke to be quite honest. It's bothered me a LOT that Match of the Day didn't even -talk- about the Harry Maguire 'offside', not even for a second. It took four minutes for the fecking VAR team to make a decision about it so clearly there's SOMETHING to talk about! It just seems to be "oh well correct decision move on" any time there's anything contentious in our games that goes -against- us.

Personally I think it goes back to the days when Alex Ferguson banned the BBC for their fecking joke of a 'documentary' about his son, trying to allege corruption/conspiracy. Never forgotten watching that upjumped garbage fearing the worst, and realising that no, there was absolutely nothing untoward going on and it was literally just a hatchet job.

It's just revenge, plain and simple. (taken from https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/aug/25/alex-ferguson-ends-bbc-boycott )

Regarding the BBC ban:
the BBC's ban dates back to 2004, when Father and Son was shown on BBC three. Ferguson would later describe it as "a whole lot of nonsense, all made-up stuff, brown paper bags and all that kind of carry-on". He said: "It was a horrible attack on my son's honour and he should never have been accused of that. But it is such a huge organisation that they will never apologise. They don't even care if you sue them or whatever, because they are so huge and have insurance. They carry on regardless and it's breathtaking."

Regarding Gary Lineker:
Lineker has frequently felt it necessary to apologise for Ferguson's no-shows, when United's assistant manager, Mike Phelan, usually steps in for the post-match interviews. But Lineker has also angered Ferguson by describing him as "childish" for not speaking to a show watched by so many United supporters.

Ferguson later responded: "Gary Lineker – a bright boy from the BBC – says I'm childish. Well, he should know about that himself. He's been subjected to a lot of stuff in the media himself and he's had stuff stopped from getting in newspapers from time to time. So he'll understand what childishness means, because he is childish. I don't think I'm childish at all."
 
Withnail said:
Credibility is not really increasing when it's Keys and some random backing up the claims.
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Point taken about Keys but the random is the former head of PGMOL though :nervous: I think he's bound to have some internal links still active.
Solius said:
Onana clatters into a defender - Talked about for weeks
Sanchez clatters into a defender - Never mentioned again

Utd ball out of play VAR ruling - No mention ever again
Arsenal/Newcastle ball of out play VAR ruling - Still going on now

I try to my best to be impartial but is this not a load of shite?
Click to expand...
I don't know why anyone is still arguing about the ball out of play. I couldn't care less about it if we don't have a definitive picture. Also having seen the Japan at the WC situation i think it looked more "out" than ours so i'm fairly sure the ball stayed in. The only issue for me is the foul and the half-arsed attempt to check for offside.
 
NewGlory said:
Feck Arteta, but I also don't care about Postecoglou kind of grand-standing. Talking shit in press conferences and influencing is part of the game, when done correctly.

Klopp did it to us when he claimed we were getting too many penalties in our favor and it worked. Sir Alex used to do it all the time. You have to do it with more class than that Arteta joker, but you also don't need to be the holier than the pope personality that Postecoglou is trying to channel.
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You're right. The game shouldn't be corruptable... but it is, and Klopp has mastered cheating and influencing officials in a way Rafa's equivalent rant could only dream of...
 
Nice to see Neville, Carragher and all of Sky/BT doing what they're told and going full lockdown on criticising referees and the current state of officiating in the PL. Sad little stooges collecting their pay cheques. The quality of officials is quite clearly abysmal and having a ridiculous impact on results
 
Just heard the VAR audio for Gordons goal. I have my doubts if that was an authentic one.
But if its a real audio then that VAR should be fired tomorrow morning.


Edit: seems a fake audio. pretty funny though.
 
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Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
You're right. The game shouldn't be corruptable... but it is, and Klopp has mastered cheating and influencing officials in a way Rafa's equivalent rant could only dream of...
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Is this the same Klopp whose team is victim of the most blatant VAR feck up since VAR was introduced? That whole influencing officials thing didn’t help there, did it?
 
Withnail said:
I'm talking about the conspiracy theory side of things. I wouldn't actually read any of old hairy hands stuff to know if he had a kernel of a point.

Absolutely it does need an overhaul and there should be more transparency. The clubs are flipping minted. Why can't they have big screens showing the replays and hear the refs talk their way through their decision making?
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I think there's too much potential for trouble broadcasting them in the stadiums, but there's no reason why the TV audience can't hear and see exactly what's going on.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Is this the same Klopp whose team is victim of the most blatant VAR feck up since VAR was introduced? That whole influencing officials thing didn’t help there, did it?
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There's obviously a difference between VAR making an actual monumental cock-up and them consciously not giving United penalties over a two year period to not anger tombstone teeth.
 
People need to stop with the conspiracy shit. Every club can bring a case for there being a conspiracy against them based on events and mistakes. The actual issue is the incompetence and lack of practical vision. Scrapping VAR will just make everything much worse.
 
CoopersDream said:
But you are clearly interpreting things in the rule that aren't there. Maguire does not need to keep the other player from getting to the ball, that is not in the rule. He needs to clearly attempt to play the ball while it is close and also impact on an opponent while doing so. Maguire is clearly attempting to play the ball, he (and the defender) is close to reach it, and he is in physical contact with a defender doing so, so he is clearly impacting on him. Just because you want the rule to be something it is not does not mean it is.
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That is 100% wrong. Merely trying to play the ball doesn't make you offside. Your attempt has to either result in touching the ball, or impacting your opponent. He does neither
 
terraloo said:
Attempts to play the ball. Without question is a yes. If you can’t see that clearly you need a visit to Specsavers
Makes an obvious action which impacts an opponent. Again without question yes.

Your denial of the facts is not just beyond the next level but in outer space.
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Attempts to play a ball WHICH IMPACTS AN OPPONENT. Why do you keep leaving that out? Are you trying to be dishonest, or are you just an idiot? And no, his action does not impact the opponent. By suggesting that, you are suggesting that the opponent would have gotten to the ball if Maguire wasn't there. Not true. The ball was still beyond both and only Garnacho was going to get it. And I am not in denial. The only person in denial is the person who is leaving parts out of the laws of the game to try and suit their argument. I clearly included all of the law
 
Platini tried to warn us though, but we told him to "stick it up your sixth official." I loved VAR at the 2018 WC, it added to the drama. It's not for everyday use though it seems.
 
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