VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

marktan said:
I would happily bin VAR. Yeah sometimes you get the right results, but there's too many ones where you creat wrong results that it makes it not worth it for me.
- Offsides - see Richarlisons goal yesterday. The thinnest of lines, chalks of perfectly reasonable goals time and time again. Infruriating.
- Slowed down tackles = red cards
- Microscopic analysis of handballs in the box = way more game deciding penalties

If they actually tackled these then it could work, but they don't, so for me it's a net negative
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I keep saying this but the solution is just to have the VAR look at things at normal speed and eliminate slow motion / freeze framing. On top of the technical limitations inherent in broadcast framerates, people want VAR for the clear and obvious mistakes - which should be visible at normal speed.

Sure, let them look at alternative angles, but just at normal speed. The process would be faster, the intent behind a tackle would be better considered as opposed to how it looks slowed down to an unrepresentative extent, and if someone's toenail is offside and they're not getting an appreciable advantage from being offside then it's not called.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
Yes which is why they slow down the VAR replay on United decisions with a tiny loop to make it look as bad as they possibly can
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They started the clip with a still of Casemiro’s studs on his ankle. Just like against Palace when they started the clip with a still of his hands on the neck of the Palace player. Surely play it out from the start of any incident.
 
TMDaines said:
Been a long while since I left Old Trafford so frustrated at the refereeing, which is at least an indication that VAR has made things better.

Not seen all the replays back yet, but the handball is baffling to me. Can understand why the referee didn't give it live, but no idea how the referee and the VAR assistant then don’t agree to review it subsequently.
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At least the handball they have a ready made excuse that the hand is on the ground (although the ball flew the whole pitch to get to him)

But what excuse do they have when the goalkeeper clipped rashford? I’ll like to know how is that not a stonewall penalty?
 
It looked like they showed the video to the ref directly from the moment his studs caught the opponent, making it look like he’d gone in studs up straight into the leg, rather then showing the full incident which was that he won the ball cleanly, then his boot went off the ball and into the player. VAR we’re clearly gagging to get him sent off.

If you’re going to use use VAR then let the ref see the whole incident from start to finish. Don’t just cherry pick bits that make it look as bad as possible. It’s bordering on corruption at this point. VAR decide a narrative and only show the refs the angles that support that. Absolute cnuts.

And that’s before we even get into the two stonewall penalties. Absolutely robbed today.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I keep saying this but the solution is just to have the VAR look at things at normal speed and eliminate slow motion / freeze framing. On top of the technical limitations inherent in broadcast framerates, people want VAR for the clear and obvious mistakes - which should be visible at normal speed.

Sure, let them look at alternative angles, but just at normal speed. The process would be faster, the intent behind a tackle would be better considered as opposed to how it looks slowed down to an unrepresentative extent, and if someone's toenail is offside and they're not getting an appreciable advantage from being offside then it's not called.
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With VAR slow speed you can clearly see the goalkeepers knee clipped rashford causing his leg to hit his other leg.

So are we selectively choosing the speed based on what team it benefits?

what I’m trying to say it’s not the speed… it’s the referee that’s looking at it! They are more than incompetent at this point I’m guessing bias when it comes to United.
 
Just remember the season ending tackle on Van De Beek and the tackle that injured Eriksen for months. Neither got a yellow iirc. Fecking pathetic officiating in this country.
 
Listar said:
With VAR slow speed you can clearly see the goalkeepers knee clipped rashford causing his leg to hit his other leg.

So are we selectively choosing the speed based on what team it benefits?
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Er, no? I just wouldn't allow any slow motion or freeze framing for the VAR whatsoever. If the on-pitch ref has made a clear and obvious error, inherent in it being clear and obvious is it being clearly visible at game-speed.
 
Listar said:
With VAR slow speed you can clearly see the goalkeepers knee clipped rashford causing his leg to hit his other leg.

So are we selectively choosing the speed based on what team it benefits?

what I’m trying to say it’s not the speed… it’s the referee that’s looking at it! They are more than incompetent at this point I’m guessing bias when it comes to United.
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It should be used to prove contact occurred in the Rashford situation or a handball situation.

However, slow motion replays have been proven to infer more intent which is why they're barred in criminal trials. The brain cannot dissociate playback speed from a perpetrators thinking time during an incident.
 
Malone_Post said:
It looked like they showed the video to the ref directly from the moment his studs caught the opponent, making it look like he’d gone in studs up straight into the leg, rather then showing the full incident which was that he won the ball cleanly, then his boot went off the ball and into the player. VAR we’re clearly gagging to get him sent off.

If you’re going to use use VAR then let the ref see the whole incident from start to finish. Don’t just cherry pick bits that make it look as bad as possible. It’s bordering on corruption at this point. VAR decide a narrative and only show the refs the angles that support that. Absolute cnuts.

And that’s before we even get into the two stonewall penalties. Absolutely robbed today.
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The fact that I cannot remember a single time that the ref has gone the monitor and NOT overturned the original decision just highlights how poor the process is at the moment. If that is happening, then it means there are clearly situations where the VAR is not sending the ref over when he should. It is made even worse when you see the quality of replays they are shown which are the most biased of slow mo and freeze frame shots rather than being full speed with full context given and only using slow motion/stills for making interpretations like was contact made or did it actually touch the hand. Still shots and replays of 3 short frames make many tackles look absolutely shocking.

VAR can work in theory, but we are better off without it, at least the refs had the benefit of the doubt at that time, now it is clear that too many of them are just incompetent. Maybe keep it for offside if they can properly implement the semi-automated system like the world cup, but if anything decisions have gotten worse for all other scenarios. Goals ruled out for phantom handballs, hopelessly inconsistent application of serious foul play, it's just killing the game.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
It wont. The referees aren't accountable for anything and they know there wont be any media outrage for any decision that goes against Utd.
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They love to be against us for some reason they only know.

Our club needs to adress this situation. Club need to come up with some statement even if we get fines. tenHag need to talk about this every press conference. Even before/after games in Europa League. We need to put a light on this.
 
Dan burn just done a Casemiro and not even a yellow.

Pope mis-controls the ball and brings down neves. No pen and no card.
 
Only few weeks ago in Brighton Liverpool match that thug Fabinho went from behind studs up not once but twice without getting no where near the ball. Result, no red card. Didn’t even get Var attention but with Casemiro even when he gets the ball, these corrupt fecks are eager to send him off.
 
RedSky said:
Correct. The rules change game by game, day by day. There's no conspiracy, it's just boils down to refs being inconsistent and interpretating the rules differently and thus you have a different set of rules depending on who the ref on the day is. It's a farce.
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Wasn't the ref for the Chelsea game yesterday the same as we had for Var today?
 
the hea said:
This is why it's a red, you can't fly in with with a stretched leg and studs showing like this even if you get the ball.

QbgDQ0k.jpg
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That's never a red, he's no where near him he only made contact because of the way his foot came off the ball. You'll see that same tackle next week multiple times and VAR won't bat an eyelid.
 
stevoc said:
That's never a red, he's no where near him he only made contact because of the way his foot came off the ball. You'll see that same tackle next week multiple times and VAR won't bat an eyelid.
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Same tackle just happened in Newcastle game. Dan burn. Not even a booking.
 
I don’t think it was a penalty but I don’t think it was a red. Casemiro totally a victim of really slowing the incident down and looking at a still image. In teal time context it wasn’t a foul.
 
stevoc said:
It's just the usual clowns on here that think Refs never make a mistake.
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You seem to be nice guy calling others clowns.

Mistakes are part of football. When those mistakes often goes against certain teams you start to wonder.
 
90 + 5min said:
You seem to be nice guy calling others clowns.

Mistakes are part of football. When those mistakes often goes against certain teams you start to wonder.
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Indeed.

Dempsey19 said:
Same tackle just happened in Newcastle game. Dan burn. Not even a booking.
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Was never a doubt, the interpretation of rules and tolerances change whenever it's United.
 


You can clearly see the keepers knee caught rashford. From another clip you can see that causes his left leg to hit his right causing him to fall.

that to me is borderline corrupt at this stage:mad:
 
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Berbaclass said:
I don’t think it was a penalty but I don’t think it was a red. Casemiro totally a victim of really slowing the incident down and looking at a still image. In teal time context it wasn’t a foul.
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They did the same thing the last time he was sent off as well.
 
You just know as soon as the ref gets told to go to the screen, the decision is getting changed. Its like it’s agreed upon between the officials beforehand. So what is the actual point in it? Do they think the fans are f stupid.

Andre Marriner should not be allowed to officiate United games. First the palace incident and now this.

I used like how ETH try’s not to make a big deal of these ref incidents and just gets on with it but I think it’s making us a soft touch, now refs think they can give us any shit decision and not be called out on it. ETH needs to start speaking out.
 
The problem is when a decision goes in our favour like the goal vs city its debated about for days afterwards putting the referee under pressure. When something goes against us it'll be sweapt under the carpet so it's much easier for the refs to give decisions against us
 
Can anyone explain why VAR interfered with the Casemiro challenge?

The ref saw it and gave a yellow card. We’ve seen these challenges be ignored, yellowed and given as red this season. He decided it was a yellow.

So what business does VAR have in coming in to tell him to look at the monitor?

Its basically telling him he’s made an error so the only decision he can make is then to give a red?

The whole thing is a nonsense. Absolutely no consistency or clarity from a supposed group of professionals. Embarrassed for them.
 
TheReligion said:
Can anyone explain why VAR interfered with the Casemiro challenge?

The ref saw it and gave a yellow card. We’ve seen these challenges be ignored, yellowed and given as red this season. He decided it was a yellow.

So what business does VAR have in coming in to tell him to look at the monitor?

Its basically telling him he’s made an error so the only decision he can make is then to give a red?

The whole thing is a nonsense. Absolutely no consistency or clarity from a supposed group of professionals. Embarrassed for them.
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What I said, thought VAR wasn't getting as involved? It wasn't a clear and obvious error so why get involved at all?
 
TheReligion said:
Can anyone explain why VAR interfered with the Casemiro challenge?

The ref saw it and gave a yellow card. We’ve seen these challenges be ignored, yellowed and given as red this season. He decided it was a yellow.

So what business does VAR have in coming in to tell him to look at the monitor?

Its basically telling him he’s made an error so the only decision he can make is then to give a red?

The whole thing is a nonsense. Absolutely no consistency or clarity from a supposed group of professionals. Embarrassed for them.
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At this stage, I'd be happy for them to do away with VAR and just leave it to the on-field referee. I was a massive advocate for the technology initially but I'm not actually sure what it adds at this point; it just slows the game down whilst seemingly not making it any more predictable which way a decision will go.
 
Berbasbullet said:
What I said, thought VAR wasn't getting as involved? It wasn't a clear and obvious error so why get involved at all?
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I think that’s the biggest complaint of mine and it does start to make you question the integrity of those using it.

They are picking and choosing when to interfere and how to direct the referees. Not helping them.
 
TheReligion said:
Can anyone explain why VAR interfered with the Casemiro challenge?

The ref saw it and gave a yellow card. We’ve seen these challenges be ignored, yellowed and given as red this season. He decided it was a yellow.

So what business does VAR have in coming in to tell him to look at the monitor?

Its basically telling him he’s made an error so the only decision he can make is then to give a red?

The whole thing is a nonsense. Absolutely no consistency or clarity from a supposed group of professionals. Embarrassed for them.
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Yeah this is the most egregious part. For me it's an orange card that could go either way - but certainly not an error to interpret it as a yellow as Taylor did initially. Why does Marriner think that should be upgraded when he let two objectively far worse challenges go completely unpunished yesterday by Pereira on Felix and Amartey on Havertz?
 
TheReligion said:
I think that’s the biggest complaint of mine and it does start to make you question the integrity of those using it.

They are picking and choosing when to interfere and how to direct the referees. Not helping them.
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It really does feel like that. I've given up trying to predict what will and won't be reviewed on the monitor. Most of the time I get it wrong.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Yeah this is the most egregious part. For me it's an orange card that could go either way - but certainly not an error to interpret it as a yellow as Taylor did initially. Why does Marriner think that should be upgraded when he let two objectively far worse challenges go completely unpunished yesterday by Pereira on Felix and Amartey on Havertz?
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That Pereira's tackle on Felix wasn't a red card and Case's was is completely ludicrous.

Just impossible to know what will and won't get reviewed.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Yeah this is the most egregious part. For me it's an orange card that could go either way - but certainly not an error to interpret it as a yellow as Taylor did initially. Why does Marriner think that should be upgraded when he let two objectively far worse challenges go completely unpunished yesterday by Pereira on Felix and Amartey on Havertz?
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Agree with this, and the orange card part.
 
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