VAR and Refs | General Discussion

Some of the decisions this weekend! Don’t think I’ve ever seen it in a worse state. VAR has totally taken away from the game.
 
How do you still manage to feck up with video evidence?

This isn't a VAR problem, it's a referee problem, it's like giving an ipad to your 90 yesr old grandmother - you'd think the technology gap wouldn't be as apparent with these guys but they seemingly have no clue how to use it.
 
VAR officials should be random and independent of the referees. What we have now is mates covering each other's arse every week.
 
Withnail said:
I just saw this on MOTD2 as I was out yesterday. That was absolutely farcical
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It's not a second yellow for dissent? I'm all for that. Referees get no respect because they never book anyone for it. You see players whining at them all game long.

Questioning a decision aggressively is a yellow. All the referees should enforce it properly. Sure, they'll be a lot of yellows and reds for a few weeks...

Cheating, diving, feigning head, other injuries along with harassing the referee needs to be stamped out.
 
Mb194dc said:
It's not a second yellow for dissent? I'm all for that. Referees get no respect because they never book anyone for it. You see players whining at them all game long.

Questioning a decision aggressively is a yellow. All the referees should enforce it properly. Sure, they'll be a lot of yellows and reds for a few weeks...

Cheating, diving, feigning head, other injuries along with harassing the referee needs to be stamped out.
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I would agree with this if it was applied consistently. However Lemina got sent of for doing something that occurs literally hundreds of times per season without punishment.

Contrast that with the officiating at the World Cup. It was of a very high standard and generally incredibly consistent. For example, if you time-wasted they added 9 or 10 minutes. Consistently. So teams stopped time-wasting. They solved a problem we’ve had in the game for decades within a week.

Just be consistent.
 
The interview Webb gave a few weeks ago gave me hope. Since then we have had more embarassing decisions. Refereeing in this country currently is fecking appalling.
 
sugar_kane said:
Is there any reason all the refs need to be English? The Premier League should have the pick of all the best refs in the world rather than the sea of mediocrity and incompetence we currently have.
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They don't need to be English. You need to be 14 years old and resident in England to initially become a referee for the English FA.

To be a top level ref (Premier League or on the international list) you need to just do it for years and years, working your way up the ladder.

There's no foreign refs because why would anyone go through the bother? For the amount of time it takes you could get a much paying better job where you don't get 30,000 people calling you a wanker every few days.
 
Just watched the Weghorst goal that was disallowed again, and that was 100% handball by the Leeds player.
 
Idxomer said:
Just watched the Weghorst goal that was disallowed again, and that was 100% handball by the Leeds player.
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It kinda highlights another problem with refereeing in this country which is this notion that certain decisions they make won’t matter if the result is already set in stone. They tend to do the same with injury time if one team is three goals clear.

They brushed over it because in their mind it was inconsequential. Try telling that to someone that has a couple of thousand pounds riding on a 3-0 result.

Try telling that to a team that misses out on Champions League football and around £50-100m extra the following season because of goal difference.

For me, the betting industry that is so heavily coupled with football is the main reason there needs to be top to bottom reform of refereeing in this country. You cannot have decisions that will cost millions upon millions of millions of pounds every couple of days happening on the whim of an official with zero transparency and zero accountability.
 
SilentWitness said:
The interview Webb gave a few weeks ago gave me hope. Since then we have had more embarassing decisions. Refereeing in this country currently is fecking appalling.
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That came across as pure PR guff to me. He was defending their performance so far this season and then talking about changing the rules after incidents such as the Rashford 'offside' goal because 'the game' didn't like it. This had me hearing alarm bells.

Changing the rules or interpretation after controversial incidents mid-season is muddying the water and isn't very fair. If it's onside on December, it should be onside in May. It should only be done in exceptional circumstances imo. They should keep the rules for the full season and review in the Summer. It's no wonder we get wildly different interpretations when they're changing stuff all the time.
 
Embarrassing week for VAR. They didn't make this many errors in the whole Worldcup, FA Refs did it matter of days, jaysus
As long as refs don't hold accountable. This will continue.
 
This is the second time this season Arsenal have received an apology from the officials. So all the other teams dont deserve an apology?
 
So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.

 
For the Weghorst goal they just decided that it was in injury time and wouldn’t change the result so just decided not to bother doing their job. The same way refs ass minimal injury time on when the game is out of sight. It’s not like league places can be decided by goal difference or anything.
 
KjaAnd said:
So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.
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There's a shirt pull on Gabriel. Enough to make him fall/slip ? I wouldn't say so, we got very lucky but the ref whistled too fast and Ramsdale stopped playing.



PGMOL Musical Chairs 2022/2023
 
Honestly, the refs in this country are a little cabal. Siloed and above scrutiny, now they've been given VAR and all the help and still cannot get basic decisions correct. I agree with others' assessments, that VAR has made them look worse because we all get to scrutinize the same images and phases. Now we see how inept they truly are.
 
acnumber9 said:
For the Weghorst goal they just decided that it was in injury time and wouldn’t change the result so just decided not to bother doing their job. The same way refs ass minimal injury time on when the game is out of sight. It’s not like league places can be decided by goal difference or anything.
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Exactly what I said above. Try explaining that to someone who is waiting on that third goal for an accumulator to pay out thousands. Try explaining that to a club at the end of the season when they miss out on the CL and all that comes with it by goal difference.

Because those involved with VAR don’t take it seriously enough to do their job properly.
 
Webb is at least trying to improve things. Hopefully we get semi auto offside and miked up officials from next season at least...

I'm all for properly enforcing dissent too, players are questioning every descision, in the refs face all game long. It's a yellow. After a few weeks players will get it...
 
KjaAnd said:
So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.

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So tired of refs bailing out shit defending.

"You fell over/were caught on the ball. No worries, mate. Foul."
 
Mb194dc said:
Webb is at least trying to improve things. Hopefully we get semi auto offside and miked up officials from next season at least...

I'm all for properly enforcing dissent too, players are questioning every descision, in the refs face all game long. It's a yellow. After a few weeks players will get it...
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Has there been any suggestion of this happening?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s what I thought. Although maybe doesn’t count because Weghorst is offside before the Leeds player handles it? Or some shit like that? Sure they make it up as they go along anyway.
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But he made genuine attempt to clear the ball so doesn't it all reset, 2nd phase of play and all that nonsense that allowed salahs goal against wolves to stand, even if maguire did touch it before him?
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
That’s what I thought. Although maybe doesn’t count because Weghorst is offside before the Leeds player handles it? Or some shit like that? Sure they make it up as they go along anyway.
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He wasn't close to being offside when Elanga won the header.
 
Mb194dc said:
Yes,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...versations-between-referees-and-var-vl2nf83ln

They're talking about snippets, but it's possible Webb will push for the whole thing I think.

If you want transparency, it's essential.
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Really it's pretty ridiculous that they've tried to run VAR without this at all.

Compare to rugby where even if you get a debateable or dodgy decision via the TMO, you at least don't have the frustration of not really knowing why it was given.
 
I saw an incident like the Weghorst goal coming, when I heard Dermot Gallagher talking about the Casemiro incident. He basically said he would ignore the second angle of the incident, because he had already seen the first angle and it was "the definitive angle". The idea that you can tell the entire story from one angle is so flawed. The ball came towards Maguire's head and then changed directions, there for he touched it... when in fact he missed it, but the ball made contact with a player behind him, who you can't see from that single angle. I'm not mad at the decision. It was a tough call, but they need to stop focusing in on 1s of a single angle played at 0.25x speed, or even worse, a single frame of an incident.

That said, I think the reaction to a bad week for VAR has been entirely over the top. Because VAR is involved people are analysing every decision to the nth degree. Some of them wouldn't even have been discussed on Match of the Day before VAR and now Danny Murphy is having an aneurysm over them.
 
Mb194dc said:
Webb is at least trying to improve things. Hopefully we get semi auto offside and miked up officials from next season at least...

I'm all for properly enforcing dissent too, players are questioning every descision, in the refs face all game long. It's a yellow. After a few weeks players will get it...
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What’s this based off of? If anything VAR has never been more hands off than it is now.
I’m calling it now, the Brentford goal wasn’t an accident. It was a ref who didn’t want to use VAR and made a point. He judged that by eye only on purpose, how can you forget to use lines. It’s absurd
 
cyberman said:
What’s this based off of? If anything VAR has never been more hands off than it is now.
I’m calling it now, the Brentford goal wasn’t an accident. It was a ref who didn’t want to use VAR and made a point. He judged that by eye only on purpose, how can you forget to use lines. It’s absurd
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You can't forget to draw the lines. It's your only job in that scenario. Questions should definitely be asked.
 
arnie_ni said:
But he made genuine attempt to clear the ball so doesn't it all reset, 2nd phase of play and all that nonsense that allowed salahs goal against wolves to stand, even if maguire did touch it before him?
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Pogue Mahone said:
No but was offside if Maguire got his head to it. I didn’t see enough replays to be certain but he might have got a touch.
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Would this not be applicable?
 
yumtum said:
How do you still manage to feck up with video evidence?

This isn't a VAR problem, it's a referee problem, it's like giving an ipad to your 90 yesr old grandmother - you'd think the technology gap wouldn't be as apparent with these guys but they seemingly have no clue how to use it.
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This fecking phrase is almost exactly as annoying and wrong-headed as the NRA’s catchphrase “guns don’t kill people, people do” (and much less forgivable as it isn’t the basis for a great Goldie Looking Chain lyric)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This fecking phrase is almost exactly as annoying and wrong-headed as the NRA’s catchphrase “guns don’t kill people, people do” (and much less forgivable as it isn’t the basis for a great Goldie Looking Chain lyric)
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I mean, I'm not sure I agree. If their was competent refs behind the var screen, wouldn't it be a great addition to the game? Getting the majority of decisions correct?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don’t think so? If Maguire did deflect the ball then, at such close range, there’s no way the defender deliberately played the ball. It would have basically been an unintentional deflection off them.
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Hmm possibly. Either way,.they defo didn't look at it properly
 
awop said:
There's a shirt pull on Gabriel. Enough to make him fall/slip ? I wouldn't say so, we got very lucky but the ref whistled too fast and Ramsdale stopped playing.
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The ref called a foul for pulling an opponents shirt. It doesn't have to be enough for him to make the opponent fall. Later on, Saka was fouled in the box and the commentator said he "should have gone down earlier" but instead managed a weak shot while off balance. There's zero incentive to stay on your feet with the way our games are often refereed.

Mbuemo committed a foul. The ref spotted it and gave a free kick. Had he not put the ball in the net after Arsenal had stopped defending, it wouldn't even have been a match highlight.
 
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