VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Unam333 said:
I think it was a penalty. Casemiro touched the shin guard slightly.
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It was a tap. It's one of those where if ref just ignores it in real time and waves play on it doesn't get looked at.

Onana once more wildly flying through the air and connecting with a Wolves defender after the ball had gone was more of a penalty but wasn't given, VAR looked at it and didn't intervene.
 
eire-red said:
Those sandwich-eating, corrupt officials!

At the end of the day, the conspiracy stuff just sounds idiotic. It's just incompetence.
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i agree, but calling out the incompetence strongly has worked for others. I do believe Taylor is actively anti-united though. Nothing will ever make me think otherwise by now
 
The way the rules are set up for VAR intervention means that it can't fulfil its purpose which is to prevent mistakes. The idea that any contact is enough to satisfy the "clear and obvious" rule is nonsense, refs need to be sent to the screen way more often and much more quickly, so they can make these decisions by themselves with better information.
 
FootballHQ said:
It was a tap. It's one of those where if ref just ignores it in real time and waves play on it doesn't get looked at.

Onana once more wildly flying through the air and connecting with a Wolves defender after the ball had gone was more of a penalty but wasn't given, VAR looked at it and didn't intervene.
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Difficult to say. The shin guard moved upon contact with the tackle. Though that Wolves player did make a meal out of it. Casemiro was very careless in that situation. Not the first time his reckless behavior made the game harder for us.
 
There wasn’t too much controversy in the cup games without var it’s proof in the pudding it ruins the game and is actually making officials worse
 
autopilot said:
I'm very confused as to what determines a penalty nowadays. More so than before VAR was introduced.

Fecking hell it's Tierney on VAR too. You can't make this shit up.
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Yup she guy who didn't even blink not giving Chelsea either of the two clear penalties Vs Liverpool. It's beyond silly now.
 
Unam333 said:
I think it was a penalty. Casemiro touched the shin guard slightly.
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Was a light touch or tap on the shin. Cass is an idiot though for giving the Wolves player a reason to dive and look for the foul.

VAR is shite though. You never know what you're gonna get.
 
berbasloth4 said:
There wasn’t too much controversy in the cup games without var it’s proof in the pudding it ruins the game and is actually making officials worse
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The delays are ridiculous. There was nearly a two minute wait for that Casemiro goal to be confirmed offside, you could tell on the first replay shown 15 seconds after it went in that he was half a yard ahead of the defender.

That really annoys everyone when you're at a game and it gets disrupted by long VAR checks. Just standing waiting without any idea what is even being checked for minutes on end.

I've always said if you can't decide after 90 seconds the original on field call should just stand.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's incredible that that pen was given. All those replays showed was that there wasn't any contact... how can they actually call that?
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There was quite clearly a contact. Never in a million years did it justify the dive and the subsequent decision but there was one.
 
erikcred said:
Time for teams to hire diving coaches. I think Nkunku's dive was too obvious. How is a kick from behind going to make you jump and fall like that? Rookie mistake. Wolves have far more sonedeas divers.
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Diving is part of the school curriculum in Portugal.
 
They really have bungled this haven't they? I think football's biggest issues, as far as officiating goes, is when the rulemakers try and make an 'absolute' law.

For example, we have the farce in the Champions League whereby any time the ball hits a hand its a penalty.

The same applies to the "if there's contact, we won't overturn it" rule with VAR. By that logic, every single review for a penalty NOT given should result in a penalty if there's any contact at all...and that would clearly be ludicrous.

Everybody watching knew that was a dive today. The officials at Stockley Park knew it was a dive, the players knew it was a dive, everybody watching at home knew it was a dive, the pundits all knew it was a dive...and yet we all also knew it would never be overturned because Casemiro's toenail flicked Neto's sock.

Football is a game of opinions and interpretation. I understand rulemakers have tried to ensure consistency by ensuring referees apply hard and fast rules but it's made the problem even worse when you throw VAR into the mix.
 
I'd keep VAR for offside checks on goals and red card incident checksand then say penalties and did the keeper get nudged on the goal type stuff just be on field only decisions made in real time and if it's wrong then it's wrong, like it was for over 100 years
 
Lentwood said:
They really have bungled this haven't they? I think football's biggest issues, as far as officiating goes, is when the rulemakers try and make an 'absolute' law.

For example, we have the farce in the Champions League whereby any time the ball hits a hand its a penalty.

The same applies to the "if there's contact, we won't overturn it" rule with VAR. By that logic, every single review for a penalty NOT given should result in a penalty if there's any contact at all...and that would clearly be ludicrous.

Everybody watching knew that was a dive today. The officials at Stockley Park knew it was a dive, the players knew it was a dive, everybody watching at home knew it was a dive, the pundits all knew it was a dive...and yet we all also knew it would never be overturned because Casemiro's toenail flicked Neto's sock.

Football is a game of opinions and interpretation. I understand rulemakers have tried to ensure consistency by ensuring referees apply hard and fast rules but it's made the problem even worse when you throw VAR into the mix.
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Must have been a pretty big toe nail too judging by how Neto wen't down.

The look of pain and agony on his face.

Also no idea where 9 minutes added time came from and the game finishing a good 2 minutes above that too.

It's a fecking joke.
 
Waynne said:
Must have been a pretty big toe nail too judging by how Neto wen't down.

The look of pain and agony on his face.

Also no idea where 9 minutes added time came from and the game finishing a good 2 minutes above that too.

It's a fecking joke.
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It felt like they added more time because it was such a good game.
 
Shane88 said:
The tip of a toe brushing off a sock isn't a foul. He should've been booked for diving, the cheating cnut.
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You'd be surprised mate. The tips of some people's toes can draw blood.

However I'm not sure that's is the case in this scenario but It really did look like a dive. Shouldn't have been given.
 
erikcred said:
Time for teams to hire diving coaches. I think Nkunku's dive was too obvious. How is a kick from behind going to make you jump and fall like that? Rookie mistake. Wolves have far more seasoned divers.
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Just sign Spanish / Portuguese players and hire a Spanish head coach versed in the dark arts. Emery or Simeone would do.
 
I might be wrong but before the season, didn't PGMOL go out saying they won't award the penalties that are a result of a minimal contact incident? I could almost swear that it's mandatory for the refs to be diagnosed with some form of alzheimers, because I really cannot fathom how a penalty today wasn't a penalty yesterday, and the worst thing, todays game is officiated by the same ref as yesterday. But then, I could swear that the refs also suffers with mythomania because I know for a fact that the refs told us before the season that the offside goals that's maybe off, will be allowed. Yet they disallow our goal at Emirates.
 
Never a pen. Even more baffling than the VVD decision from Wednesday.
 
There can be no argument that we’re refd to a different standard to everyone else in the league.

On the penalty, the media darling clubs get those decisions, we saw one at Anfield, then another equally similar not given.

Feels like every foul we concede is a yellow card, yet city and Liverpool happily go about making tactical fouls to stop counter attacks 3-4 times a game and nothing is given.

I thought we’d gone through a relative period of calm with VAR with nothing really happening in our games that needed it, but soon as we get our first X1 back, it’s back with a bang to feck us over
 
Very harsh penalty but it’s on Casemiro who gave the referee a decision to make. Bare minimum contact and he made a meal of it, VAR won’t overturn the on-field decision when it shows contact.
 
AbusementPark said:
Very harsh penalty but it’s on Casemiro who gave the referee a decision to make. Bare minimum contact and he made a meal of it, VAR won’t overturn the on-field decision when it shows contact.
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Yeah, when I saw the pictures I was sure they were not going to overturn it. But in my opinion, that situation yesterday should be overturned. The contact is minimal, and Neto just throws himself to the ground - it's so obvious. The VAR referees are far too focused on whether there is contact at all, so they can hide behind the stupid "clear and obvious" thing. It's embarassing.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, when I saw the pictures I was sure they were not going to overturn it. But in my opinion, that situation yesterday should be overturned. The contact is minimal, and Neto just throws himself to the ground - it's so obvious. The VAR referees are far too focused on whether there is contact at all, so they can hide behind the stupid "clear and obvious" thing. It's embarassing.
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That’s a whole new concept, introduced by VAR. The presence or absence of contact was never in the laws of the game and shouldn’t be used as the deciding factor in awarding a penalty. Not all contacts are the same!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s a whole new concept, introduced by VAR. The presence or absence of contact was never in the laws of the game and shouldn’t be used as the deciding factor in awarding a penalty. Not all contacts are the same!
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Exactly. Once the penalty is given on the field, the VAR referees are looking for justification for that decision. They are not looing for the right outcome. It's so warped, it really does my head in.
 
There's just no consitency at all. For penalties like that, it has to be of a threshold to overturn the ref's decision. But, for things like Casemiro's red card last season, there can basically be whatever VAR likes, with as many subjective angles and so forth. Or Rodri's 'penalty'. Or the Maguire offside.

I actually support the idea of not re-refereeing the game. But that's not what VAR does. It sometimes re-refereese it, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes there's a high bar to overturn things, sometimes there's not.

Basically, they have no idea what they're doing, and are making it up each week.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Exactly. Once the penalty is given on the field, the VAR referees are looking for justification for that decision. They are not looing for the right outcome. It's so warped, it really does my head in.
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It all goes back to the first season that they introduced it, VAR was correctly overturning decisions left, right and centre but effectively undermining the referees judgement.. Ref's got fed up with looking like they'd made mistakes all the time so now they just use it to justify whatever the ref thinks and to add drama when they fancy it
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, when I saw the pictures I was sure they were not going to overturn it. But in my opinion, that situation yesterday should be overturned. The contact is minimal, and Neto just throws himself to the ground - it's so obvious. The VAR referees are far too focused on whether there is contact at all, so they can hide behind the stupid "clear and obvious" thing. It's embarassing.
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Even if VAR don’t overturn it, send the ref back to the screen and say the contact is very minimal, let the ref see it again and see if he’s happy with the decision himself. Surely they’ve learnt enough this season to know that all decisions will be scrutinised and minimal contact ones even more so, eradicate the discussion in the media by being more comprehensive in decision making and involve the ref in replays. Give them something they can view decisions on field with rather than going to the sidelines.

The way Neto went down was believable enough the ref gave a decision in real time but he was conned, replay may have changed his decision.

Onana flying through the box missing the ball was more of a penalty than that one and VAR didn’t award it after looking at it.
 
It almost cost United points yet again. As bad as we’ve been this season, you can point to at least 5 games where the outcome could have been United having more points too. Against teams that are in the top 6 as well!
 
The elephant in the room is consistency and the absolute lack of it.

To have the same official ignore an identical incident 24 hours previously then accept this one is utterly bizarre. They are a supposed professional body and they can’t even get a baseline on contact levels. Embarrassing.
 
Beachryan said:
There's just no consitency at all. For penalties like that, it has to be of a threshold to overturn the ref's decision. But, for things like Casemiro's red card last season, there can basically be whatever VAR likes, with as many subjective angles and so forth. Or Rodri's 'penalty'. Or the Maguire offside.

I actually support the idea of not re-refereeing the game. But that's not what VAR does. It sometimes re-refereese it, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes there's a high bar to overturn things, sometimes there's not.

Basically, they have no idea what they're doing, and are making it up each week.
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This is the problem right here, what it deems clear and obvious changes depending on the mood of the ref so we've essentially gone from 1 ref making subjective calls to 3 or so and going with the thoughts of a random one.
Today once the ref gave the pen 9/10 thats never getting over turned by clear and obvious but its fecking silly, cause 1 in every 10 will deem it clear and obvious not a foul.

All its doing is adding more subjective opinions to the decision not making things clearer.
 
Lentwood said:
Correct but then the VAR system is currently designed in a way that rewards cheating, so of course players will cheat.
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If contact is made and the player throws themselves down, then VAR will not overturn. It's been seen loads of times this season already, throw yourself down, even if the VAR says no penalty you won't get booked for diving, because of the contact, no matter how small and insignificant it is.

The players know this and cheating is being rewarded, it's disgraceful.
 
Oranges038 said:
If contact is made and the player throws themselves down, then VAR will not overturn. It's been seen loads of times this season already, throw yourself down, even if the VAR says no penalty you won't get booked for diving, because of the contact, no matter how small and insignificant it is.

The players know this and cheating is being rewarded, it's disgraceful.
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I’m almost certain there was some edict, before the season started, about clamping down on the scenarios where players “manufacture contact”. The ones where they hang a leg out creating contact where it wouldn’t otherwise happen (basically what happened last night) Didn’t we see a few penalties not given on this basis earlier that season? Have they just given up on all of that? Or have I imagined the whole thing?!?
 
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