VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Pogue Mahone said:
The level of dissent shown in football is a disgrace and has been for a very long time. It isn’t tolerated in any other sport, sets a terrible example for kids and creates a hostile atmosphere towards referees at grassroots level, that can end up with them getting assaulted. So any effort to stamp it out is a good thing. They just need to be more consistent in how they penalise players.
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I think parents have to take a lot more accountability for how their children turn out, rather than looking to blame 'famous role models'. How many parents of those same kids will also be sat in the crowd, or watching on TV, and yelling and bawling at the officials and opponents players on a regular basis?

When you see people win awards, they always thank their parents for helping them becoming the person they are, etc. I've never see any thanking Rugby or Tennis players or anything. It may play a tiny part, but the person themselves, and the constant daily influences directly around them (family, friends, etc) are far more responsible - positive or negative - than the behaviour of different sports stars as they compete in competive sport. They might be an easy thing to blame when you're looking for an excuse, but it's really not up to sports stars how people turn out.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
'debate' about decisions
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It's one of the frustrations I have with the game. With the introduction of VAR, it brings me as a fan, a sense of entitlement. I feel entitled to watch my team play a match where the correct decisions are made by the officials. I mean, why shouldn't I feel that way? Yet, lo and behold you still see the same old inconsistency. The whole picking and choosing of what to feck you over with this week. Incidents that no doubt have been glossed over in the past, or will be in the future, where your rivals are concerned.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
I think parents have to take a lot more accountability for how their children turn out, rather than looking to blame 'famous role models'. How many parents of those same kids will also be sat in the crowd, or watching on TV, and yelling and bawling at the officials and opponents players on a regular basis?

When you see people win awards, they always thank their parents for helping them becoming the person they are, etc. I've never see any thanking Rugby or Tennis players or anything. It may play a tiny part, but the person themselves, and the constant daily influences directly around them (family, friends, etc) are far more responsible - positive or negative - than the behaviour of different sports stars as they compete in competive sport. They might be an easy thing to blame when you're looking for an excuse, but it's really not up to sports stars how people turn out.
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Unless kids get to see their parents playing sports then the only role models they have in terms of how to behave on the pitch are the footballers they watch on tv. There’s nothing their parents can do about that. Go and watch an underage football match. The kids constantly emulate what they see the pros do. It’s not just whining at referees. They even copy the whole rolling around pretending to be injured nonsense. It’s so cringey to watch.

Obviously I make it clear to my own kids how I expect them to behave but I have no control over the other 21 players on the pitch. To be honest it’s got so bad it’s making me dislike watching my kids play football. They play other sports too and you don’t see any of the antics you get with football in those sports. If a first step to eradicating all that bullshit is coming down hard on PL footballers who moan about referee’s decisions then I’m all in favour of it.
 
While I agree that refs are inconsistent with yellows for dissent, I can somewhat see how Elliot got a yellow and Ödegaard didn't. Elliot clearly turned towards the ref and did the shouting and hand gesture, whereas Ödegaard only did so towards the lino (and then just in general) and not really against the actual ref. I would think that would make a difference.
 
CoopersDream said:
While I agree that refs are inconsistent with yellows for dissent, I can somewhat see how Elliot got a yellow and Ödegaard didn't. Elliot clearly turned towards the ref and did the shouting and hand gesture, whereas Ödegaard only did so towards the lino (and then just in general) and not really against the actual ref. I would think that would make a difference.
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Tbh the linesman is an extension of the ref and should respected as much. So not really valid imo
 
CoopersDream said:
While I agree that refs are inconsistent with yellows for dissent, I can somewhat see how Elliot got a yellow and Ödegaard didn't. Elliot clearly turned towards the ref and did the shouting and hand gesture, whereas Ödegaard only did so towards the lino (and then just in general) and not really against the actual ref. I would think that would make a difference.
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Dermot??
 
CoopersDream said:
Keyword is should here, not sure they actually are in general.
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I think before this season with the dissent changes, the refs were actually less lenient when dissent was towards linesmen than themselves

So maybe outside the ref room they are less respected, but not inside
 
erikcred said:
:D

I was also thinking wtf. This conclusion is the only one that makes sense.

Direction of dissent is now a factor. What else will they come up with?
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I am not sure how anyone can think it doesn't. It's common sense really.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Just make sure you don’t look in the direction of the referee when you call the referee a useless fecking twat
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But if you do accidentally find yourself looking at the referee as you’re moaning, make sure you ask him whether he’s been drinking and make an obvious hand movement to further emphasise the suggestion that the ref is drunk. That’ll make sure that there’s no punishment.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The level of dissent shown in football is a disgrace and has been for a very long time. It isn’t tolerated in any other sport, sets a terrible example for kids and creates a hostile atmosphere towards referees at grassroots level, that can end up with them getting assaulted. So any effort to stamp it out is a good thing. They just need to be more consistent in how they penalise players.
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I think we have crossed that line way before with social media, news on tv, newspapers with some sections, movies kids shouldn't watch being shown, horrible music videos being played, all those bad words being spoken nowdays in schools and society, greedy people and so on.

So football games are far down the list of things we should worry about that sets terrible example for kids.

Dissent or not, there must be a level where we can accept emotions. Nobody wants hostile atmosphere or people getting assaulted. You should be able to show emotions without being hostile or assault someone. It is not that hard.
 
90 + 5min said:
I think we have crossed that line way before with social media, news on tv, newspapers with some sections, movies kids shouldn't watch being shown, horrible music videos being played, all those bad words being spoken nowdays in schools and society, greedy people and so on.

So football games are far down the list of things we should worry about that sets terrible example for kids.

Dissent or not, there must be a level where we can accept emotions. Nobody wants hostile atmosphere or people getting assaulted. You should be able to show emotions without being hostile or assault someone. It is not that hard.
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We’re discussing football though. Not movies or music? And I’m not worried about it. I just find it annoying and am favour of steps taken against it. I’m not trying to fix the world, just make football (at all levels) less annoying to watch. Which I don’t think is a big ask. Emotions are fine. Spoilt brat tantrums and blatant dissent are not.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
We’re discussing football though. Not movies or music? And I’m not worried about it. I just find it annoying and am favour of steps taken against it. I’m not trying to fix the world, just make football (at all levels) less annoying to watch. Which I don’t think is a big ask. Emotions are fine. Spoilt brat tantrums and blatant dissent are not.
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I understand what you are saying. I was just saying that they learn bad behavior from other things.

I'm with you on showing respect towards referees. Or everyone for that matter. However there comes moments where you need to show emotions and it can be done without being hostile or worse.

Nobody can say that what Dalot did against Liverpool is any worse than what we are seeing every game. Multiple times. Without any reaction from referees. He wasn't hostile. He didn't touch or hit anybody. He was just showing that referee made misstake by yelling from distance and throwing his hands and body in every way. If we can't accept that than we should have a rule where players must be on mute for whole game.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Just make sure you don’t look in the direction of the referee when you call the referee a useless fecking twat
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I am not sure how to respond to this. Obviously if you go 'Michael Oliver you fecker, go feck yourself' it wouldn't be much of a difference. However, you are allowed to be angry on the pitch. You wouldn't see anyone getting booked from shouting 'You useless twat' to themselves after missing an easy chance.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The level of dissent shown in football is a disgrace and has been for a very long time. It isn’t tolerated in any other sport, sets a terrible example for kids and creates a hostile atmosphere towards referees at grassroots level, that can end up with them getting assaulted. So any effort to stamp it out is a good thing. They just need to be more consistent in how they penalise players.
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Agree refs are treated like complete trash in football. In basketball and baseball you get tossed out of games for less.
 
MackRobinson said:
Agree refs are treated like complete trash in football. In basketball and baseball you get tossed out of games for less.
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To be honest referees only have themselves to blame. They have been given the go ahead and the tools to crack down on dissent and if they actually used them frequently and consistently they would drive the problem out. They choose not to though, they let some players get away with aggressively yelling at them and flailing their arms, some players can sarcastically mock them and some can say whatever they want directly to them with absolutely no consequence.

Then some players do some seemingly minor action in frustration and get a yellow card waved in their face, or worse - two and a red.

How are you supposed to take them seriously? If they have no interest in sorting the issue and instead use their opportunity to be petty.
 
90 + 5min said:
I think we have crossed that line way before with social media, news on tv, newspapers with some sections, movies kids shouldn't watch being shown, horrible music videos being played, all those bad words being spoken nowdays in schools and society, greedy people and so on.

[bold]So football games are far down the list of things we should worry about that sets terrible example for kids.[/bold]

Dissent or not, there must be a level where we can accept emotions. Nobody wants hostile atmosphere or people getting assaulted. You should be able to show emotions without being hostile or assault someone. It is not that hard.
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Highly disagree with that. Few things kids watch and try to emulate as much as football.

Also, what world do you live in where we can't change multiple things at once? How is football clamping down on it's own shitty behavior going to take away from any other social progress?
 
Snow said:
Highly disagree with that. Few things kids watch and try to emulate as much as football.

Also, what world do you live in where we can't change multiple things at once? How is football clamping down on it's own shitty behavior going to take away from any other social progress?
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We can. We should. At least try. What I meant was that we have bigger problems in our society that have worse influence on our kids.
 
CoopersDream said:
I am not sure how to respond to this. Obviously if you go 'Michael Oliver you fecker, go feck yourself' it wouldn't be much of a difference. However, you are allowed to be angry on the pitch. You wouldn't see anyone getting booked from shouting 'You useless twat' to themselves after missing an easy chance.
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You’re missing the point..Dissent is dissent, if you show a strong negative reaction to a referees decision it’s dissent, doesn’t matter what direction you do it in.
 
NotChatGPT said:
You’re missing the point..Dissent is dissent, if you show a strong negative reaction to a referees decision it’s dissent, doesn’t matter what direction you do it in.
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And you're missing the point that the reason it is dissent is exactly becsuse you are turning towards the ref and shouting and doing stuff.
 
90 + 5min said:
We can. We should. At least try. What I meant was that we have bigger problems in our society that have worse influence on our kids.
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Football is multicultural and national though. If respect would be the same across the board it could have a positive impact globally.

It's not just the kids mind you. Several countries have programs aimed at parents to stop behave like shit heads at their kid's games.
 
If there was VAR, Taylor would not have given that on the basis that VAR would look at it.

VAR would not have given it on the basis that it wasn’t a clear and obvious error.
 
Pexbo said:
If there was VAR, Taylor would not have given that on the basis that VAR would look at it.

VAR would not have given it on the basis that it wasn’t a clear and obvious error.
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Why? He just gave it. So people are now going to moan that he gave a “soft” penalty? :rolleyes:
 
njred said:
Why? He just gave it. So people are now going to moan that he gave a “soft” penalty? :rolleyes:
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Yes. Because we are objective. That was ridiculously soft.
 
njred said:
Why? He just gave it. So people are now going to moan that he gave a “soft” penalty? :rolleyes:
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You’re missing the point though - the point is that VAR has created a paradox where referees shirk big decisions because they know that VAR will either back up their decision 90% of the time or correct it if it was really wrong.
 
Pexbo said:
Yes. Because we are objective. That was ridiculously soft.
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The defender has swept in out of control and nipped his foot. Nothing in the rules says you have to brutalise someone for a pen
 
Sandikan said:
The defender has swept in out of control and nipped his foot. Nothing in the rules says you have to brutalise someone for a pen
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I mean there’s no way it hurt and it didn’t cause him to go down it also didn’t impact his ability to challenge - him diving did. You’ve got no right to criticise Jota if you’re going to absolve our players from doing the same thing even if it’s not to the degree is less extreme.
 
We got a soft decision so expect us to get absolutely rode at the weekend with decisions. That's how this works. A few days of "Does contact equal a penalty?" debate on Sky and Talksport and whichever prick is wearing black at the weekend will be salivating at the opportunity to do us.
 
Pexbo said:
I mean there’s no way it hurt and it didn’t cause him to go down it also didn’t impact his ability to challenge - him diving did. You’ve got no right to criticise Jota if you’re going to absolve our players from doing the same thing even if it’s not to the degree is less extreme.
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It probably hurt. Have you played football in modern boots? Zero protection. Being kicked on the foot can hurt like feck. Much more painful than being kicked in the shin.
 
Shane88 said:
We got a soft decision so expect us to get absolutely rode at the weekend with decisions. That's how this works. A few days of "Does contact equal a penalty?" debate on Sky and Talksport and whichever prick is wearing black at the weekend will be salivating at the opportunity to do us.
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If they try and make that the story of this game it'll be outrageous.

It was the most comfortable 1-0 of all time up until that. Should be 5 or 6.
Wigan had one moment, 3mins in with that decent chance.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It probably hurt. Have you played football in modern boots? Zero protection. Being kicked on the foot can hurt like feck. Much more painful than being kicked in the shin.
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Bet a kick to the shin absolutely kills for some of these players with 2cm little pads.
 
NotChatGPT said:
It’s not.
It’s dissent because you are protesting the decision
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Never mind this debate, Wigan had a gang of players in the ref's face protesting the pen. Not even a hint of the new rules on dissent being applied.
 
Pexbo said:
I mean there’s no way it hurt and it didn’t cause him to go down it also didn’t impact his ability to challenge - him diving did. You’ve got no right to criticise Jota if you’re going to absolve our players from doing the same thing even if it’s not to the degree is less extreme.
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Of course it hurt, he got him him hard on the foot.

If Jota throwing himself to the floor after feeling a tiny bit of contact from the Newcastle keeper is a penalty then that Bruno one is stonewall.
 
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