VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Sandikan said:
Never mind this debate, Wigan had a gang of players in the ref's face protesting the pen. Not even a hint of the new rules on dissent being applied.
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it's all over the place

Jorginho tells to the ref to feck off, gets a warning
Elliott got booked for something that Odegaard did (yet he didn't get booked)
 
Hopefully that’s not another three months of no decisions for us. Shameful dive but nice to get something undeserved.
 
Bruno's penalty tonight was one where I think that if VAR was available, they wouldn't call it off if it's given, but they also wouldn't call it if it's not. He's definitely looking for a foul but you could also argue that a foul does occur. For me, I'd like to see refs be like NHL hockey refs and give both the foul and call the dive. both can occur on the same play and I think this was a perfect example of that...
 
RedRocket9908 said:
If he had have dived he would haved ended up face down on his front which he didnt.

He was kicked hard in the foot and instictively dropped to his knees to grab it.
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So the only way you can dive is face first, and his foot has moved six inches up his leg. Gotcha.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Hopefully that’s not another three months of no decisions for us. Shameful dive but nice to get something undeserved.
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When the guys in the studio say the player has been "clever". Then they really mean, he waited for the contact and made the most of it and won his team a penalty.

Bruno leaves his leg there, gets the little touch and jumps to the ground holding his knee maybe. It's disgusting to see the Man Utd captain resort to cheating to make sure of a win against a league 1 team.
 
Pexbo said:
You’re missing the point though - the point is that VAR has created a paradox where referees shirk big decisions because they know that VAR will either back up their decision 90% of the time or correct it if it was really wrong.
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I guess so. I was just expecting the conspiracy stuff against united to come out( which it has with others) fair play
 
Jeppers7 said:
Hopefully that’s not another three months of no decisions for us. Shameful dive but nice to get something undeserved.
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when you stupidity dive in like that and make contact you have to accept the consequences. Probably wouldn't have been given had the defender stayed on his feet. It was reckless and Bruno exploited it like most players would.
 
This fecking season. We’ve reached peak self loathing when a bunch of United fans are flagellating themselves over a penalty awarded to United after we’ve been ridden all season by poor decisions. And all because… checks notes… a defender dove in to win the ball, missed, and kicked the standing foot of a United player. Won’t someone think of the children!
 
RedRocket9908 said:
If he had have dived he would haved ended up face down on his front which he didnt.

He was kicked hard in the foot and instictively dropped to his knees to grab it.
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Except he grabbed his ankle.

But this isn't on refs. We can't expect refs to decide if contact was enough for a player to fall over. It's too subjective.

What we need is for players to stop cheating.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This fecking season. We’ve reached peak self loathing when a bunch of United fans are flagellating themselves over a penalty awarded to United after we’ve been ridden all season by poor decisions. And all because… checks notes… a defender dove in to win the ball, missed, and kicked the standing foot of a United player. Won’t someone think of the children!
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I genuinely don't get it. It was a clear foul, if Wan-Bissaka had given away a penalty like that. I'd be blaming him for diving in and making contact without getting the ball, not the other player.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I genuinely don't get it. It was a clear foul, if Wan-Bissaka had given away a penalty like that. I'd be blaming him for diving in and making contact without getting the ball, not the other player.
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It’s weird. Like I said, a combination of general self loathing about all things Manchester United and people who are desperate to find any reason at all slag off Bruno. It was just an obvious penalty. Bad defending, properly punished. You can’t dive in like that if you don’t win the ball.

Such a nice change to see a pen in real time too. Without all the VAR associated overthinking. The spectacle was improved so much by the absence of VAR. It always is.
 
Clear penatly imo. Sure, he does do a nice dive, but it's clearly a foul and thus a penalty.
 
Roux said:
when you stupidity dive in like that and make contact you have to accept the consequences. Probably wouldn't have been given had the defender stayed on his feet. It was reckless and Bruno exploited it like most players would.
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Both things can be true….the defender was stupid. The penalty was soft…here’s hoping it gets swept aside by the media.
 
Footballers just constantly cheat. The faking of pain. Everybody is so used to it now it barely gets a mention. We instead put all the focus on refs.
 
I’d be fuming if that was us against Liverpool and Salah or Jota did that.
 
Clear bias will say it’s a penalty. The rest of the football world will say it’s a dive.

Exact same as Jota for me. Blatant cheating.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I genuinely don't get it. It was a clear foul, if Wan-Bissaka had given away a penalty like that. I'd be blaming him for diving in and making contact without getting the ball, not the other player.
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Id be mad at the stupid decision to go to ground in the box but id also be fuming it was given and I'd be saying it's soft. It's not as bad as the jota one but it's definitely soft.

But in saying that, if attackers don't "dive" the don't get pens even when there is a greater level of contact. They have to throw themselves to the ground to get the refs attention.

Catch 22
 
CoopersDream said:
And why do you think it's obvious that you're protesting the decision? Maybe because you turn directly to the ref and shout and so on?
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Maybe because you’re displaying a strong sense of disagreement with the referees decision. I have no idea how you’ve convinced yourself that this is based on direction. «Hmmm, i can see that the player is throwing a tantrum right after i gave the opposition a freekick, but he isn’t looking in my direction so it’s clearly not related to my decision, just a weird coincidence»

Come on.

Sandikan said:
Never mind this debate, Wigan had a gang of players in the ref's face protesting the pen. Not even a hint of the new rules on dissent being applied.
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Which is the absurd bit. They agreed on a certain standard before the start of the season, maintained it for about 5 minutes, then it's applied more or less randomly and out of nowhere Dalot gets two yellow cards for essentially the same display of dissent within 30 something secs, then we're back to players getting away with pretty much everything until it's randomly applied again.

Obviously if referees were intelligent they wouldn't be referees, but it is rather impressive that they can't maintain such an easy standard.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Maybe because you’re displaying a strong sense of disagreement with the referees decision. I have no idea how you’ve convinced yourself that this is based on direction. «Hmmm, i can see that the player is throwing a tantrum right after i gave the opposition a freekick, but he isn’t looking in my direction so it’s clearly not related to my decision, just a weird coincidence»

Come on.
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It is almost like you could be dissapointed and angry with yourself for giving away a free kick in a dangerous area or a penalty.

You do not get punished for disagreeing with the ref, you get punished for doing something that makes it seem you disagree with the ref. To me it seems quite clear that it is more obvious you do this when you turn and shout directly to the face of the ref. To each their own, though.
 
A player made the most of contact. There are incidents identical to this week in and week out. Not sure why this is any different to those.
 
Suppose it would be interesting to see of opinions align on this issue when you compare the one Bruno got versus the one Jota got.
 
Carl said:
Suppose it would be interesting to see of opinions align on this issue when you compare the one Bruno got versus the one Jota got.
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To be fair they’re completely different. If Bruno ran half the pitch and decided to fall then they would be similar.
 
Why are people bringing up the Jota one like it’s in any way comparable? Bruno got clipped and went straight down from the contact, whereas Jota got clipped stayed on his feet and took another couple of steps before launching himself to the floor like he’d been shot.
 
cyberman said:
To be fair they’re completely different. If Bruno ran half the pitch and decided to fall then they would be similar.
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I dont think they're all that different. Both won fouls because of minimal contact. Bruno can argue the contact was enough to make him go down, Jota can argue it was enough to make him lose balance and eventually go down.

In neither case was the contact enough to send either of them to the ground. But since when has that been important anyway?

Both are given again and again, week in week out.
 
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