VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Pogue Mahone said:
I’m sure that’s true but cricket is so much more suited to the technology. There’s constant breaks in play anyway. Every time a ball is bowled. So it doesn’t affect the flow of the game to have these sort of checks. Very different scenario with football.
Click to expand...

Yeah, outside of automating offside I’d be up for a challenge system. Each coach could get a challenge and they can use it on goals, red cards etc. If the decision is overturned you keep the challenge.

This would solve the issue of VAR deciding when refs should come to the monitor. Refs would simply review the play pitch side only when the challenge has been called. VAR wouldn’t then require actual refs as they’d only be used for providing images to pitch side monitor for the on-field ref to review.
 
sparx99 said:
Yeah, outside of automating offside I’d be up for a challenge system. Each coach could get a challenge and they can use it on goals, red cards etc. If the decision is overturned you keep the challenge.

This would solve the issue of VAR deciding when refs should come to the monitor. Refs would simply review the play pitch side only when the challenge has been called. VAR wouldn’t then require actual refs as they’d only be used for providing images to pitch side monitor for the on-field ref to review.
Click to expand...
I like this but tweak it to the tennis model of up to 3 challenges per coach.
 
sparx99 said:
Yeah, outside of automating offside I’d be up for a challenge system. Each coach could get a challenge and they can use it on goals, red cards etc. If the decision is overturned you keep the challenge.

This would solve the issue of VAR deciding when refs should come to the monitor. Refs would simply review the play pitch side only when the challenge has been called. VAR wouldn’t then require actual refs as they’d only be used for providing images to pitch side monitor for the on-field ref to review.
Click to expand...
Challenge would be ace.

The referee and VAR have to do a full review of the incident and then explain their decision to the stadium.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
This isn’t related to United getting a favourable decision or unfavourable one but I am losing some of my interest in the game. Without VAR you could just live with the idea that ref got one view and so had to make a decision . Watching games where these people are looking at multiple angles and making strange decisions every game followed by ex refs coming out and agreeing with everything is just hard to watch.

Maybe it’s just me but when the Garnacho goal happened I didn’t move because I knew that it would be checked and so no point even celebrating till we are sure. Then I see it come on screen and commentators & me have no clue if it’s a goal or offside. We are waiting for a guy to then decide and so somehow the VAR review has become the focal point rather than a goal itself. Just pathetic
Click to expand...

It’s another reason why a challenge system is a better solution. If each team has the decision to use a challenge rather than VAR/Refs then they would be cautious with their use of it because they won’t want to waste a challenge on a marginal decision.

We all likely remember the big moments in football that brought about VAR and other tech. Goal line technology solved a big part of the problem and works. VAR was meant to fix the egregious error but once you a system in place it’s hard not to see every marginal error or subjective decision as something that needs fixing. They tried to get around that by having language like ‘clear and obvious’ but language itself can be interpreted differently. After all, any mistake is clear and obvious once pointed out.

Going back to the idea of the manager or captain having a challenge I think it would be interesting to see how it would be used. Players love to protest goals against them but they might not use the challenge when they know it was only a subjective call against them for fear of wasting the challenge.

Looking at the Arsenal vs Man Utd game I could imagine something like the below playing out:

1. Havertz penalty awarded. Man Utd challenge. Ref overturns the decision. Challenge kept.

2. Hojlund penalty not given. Man Utd challenge. Ref doesn’t overturn his decision so challenge lost. While I think it could be a penalty I think a lot of refs would say it’s really borderline and wouldn’t choose to overturn it. He clearly steps across Hojlund but it’s not the most egregious error.

3. Rice goal would be challenged by Utd but we lost the challenge for the Hojlund penalty shout so now can’t challenge this. Whether we agree with this or not Arsenal fans can celebrate it without fear of VAR overturning it because we lost our challenge. There would be times of course that you haven’t used a challenge and so you’ll review any late goal because you may as well. Refs could mostly check those things pitchside before players have finished celebrating.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
I like this but tweak it to the tennis model of up to 3 challenges per coach.
Click to expand...

I think 3 ends up being too similar to the current situation though. Most games only have 3/4 major incidents. Mostly goals or occasional red card so you would end up having everything challenged. With a single challenge teams have to think a little bit more about whether it was a ‘clear and obvious error’ before using it.

Ideally, we’d end up with less goals being looked at by VAR.
 
sparx99 said:
I think 3 ends up being too similar to the current situation though. Most games only have 3/4 major incidents. Mostly goals or occasional red card so you would end up having everything challenged. With a single challenge teams have to think a little bit more about whether it was a ‘clear and obvious error’ before using it.

Ideally, we’d end up with less goals being looked at by VAR.
Click to expand...
This will end up with a dedicated person from each team watching the game on a screen, I doubt it would be the manager making a call spur of the moment and he wouldn’t have time to go and watch a load of replays. Then how long would you be allowed before the time has passed since the incident.

Var is just a mess, the hand of god and the Henry handball are the only massive travesties I can think of in forty years and football fan base has grown and grown through that time. It didn’t need changing and this micro analysing
 
njred said:
Ok. Last thing I’ll say on this. The match was 1-1 after full time, a fair result. But you lost because you had Evans and Maguire on the ptch and you had a goaile not named David de Gea who probably would have kept the winning goal out. In my opinion de Gea is one of the best in the world at stopping shots, not at penalties but stopping shots just like the one that beat you. Do you agree
Click to expand...
Worst post I've seen on here in a long time. Did you see the winning goal for City in the FA Cup final last season or Brentford's first goal in the 4-0? De Gea hasn't been a a great shot stopper for years, he wouldn't have concede 7 goals from 8 shots on target against Liverpool if he was that good.

Rice's shot took a ridiculous deflection, which gave Onana no chance from that distance. I've watched it back and can't even tell if it was on target or not. If Evans doesn't touch it, it most likely gets blocked by one of our players or tapped in by an Arsenal player. The Rice media love in after such a jammy goal was a bit much, was pretty average apart from that.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
This will end up with a dedicated person from each team watching the game on a screen, I doubt it would be the manager making a call spur of the moment and he wouldn’t have time to go and watch a load of replays. Then how long would you be allowed before the time has passed since the incident.

Var is just a mess, the hand of god and the Henry handball are the only massive travesties I can think of in forty years and football fan base has grown and grown through that time. It didn’t need changing and this micro analysing
Click to expand...

There are some pretty egregious calls over the years that you forget about because time goes by. It could also be for red cards don’t forget.

The clamour for VAR came from fans and media alike who were frustrated by poor decisions costing team games.

It’s true that some data analyst could be looking at a screen but we already have them doing that as it is. I don’t think there would be anything wrong in the coach or captain using the challenge based on their spur of the moment reading of the play. Managers often know when something wasn’t right as do fans.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
This will end up with a dedicated person from each team watching the game on a screen, I doubt it would be the manager making a call spur of the moment and he wouldn’t have time to go and watch a load of replays. Then how long would you be allowed before the time has passed since the incident.

Var is just a mess, the hand of god and the Henry handball are the only massive travesties I can think of in forty years and football fan base has grown and grown through that time. It didn’t need changing and this micro analysing
Click to expand...
This is what happens in baseball, they don't get long to make a decision, a few seconds, though for most calls/challenges it's usually pretty clear on the replay one way or the other unlike football
 
Berbaclass said:
Click to expand...

I wonder if they are going to take any of our 5-6 penalties we could have got in first four games? We know the answer. Or how they gave Arsenal that winning goal? Or how they didn't gave Saka red card? Or how our players are differently treated in bad way?

We know how we are treated. We know that we would have 12 points if the rules were the same for every team. Yes, we might not deserved those points looking at how we played but rules should be rules.
 
90 + 5min said:
I wonder if they are going to take any of our 5-6 penalties we could have got in first four games? We know the answer. Or how they gave Arsenal that winning goal? Or how they didn't gave Saka red card? Or how our players are differently treated in bad way?

We know how we are treated. We know that we would have 12 points if the rules were the same for every team. Yes, we might not deserved those points looking at how we played but rules should be rules.
Click to expand...
No chance. Will probably have a discussion on some decisions that our opposition moaned about.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Listen to the Havertz penalty incident

Click to expand...

No one is surprised there. This selective blindness has been going on for years and our refusal to go public about it is hurting the club. ETH should just call out Sky in public. And force them to reply.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Listen to the Havertz penalty incident

Click to expand...

That sky article is pure comedy with Webb.

Where are decision that went against us? They are putting two decisions that went "our" way so they can say that we are being helped by VAR. Normal thinking people see through that. I'm not surprised they did that. We know all about ABU agenda that have been around us after Fergie days.
 
Last edited:
This is a good change. It will go a long way in improving my opinion of VAR. And I think many people will settle down when they hear the justification for a decision, instead of wildly speculating. I just hope every game is covered.
 
Does anyone know if the clubs request the var discussion for a certain incident do they supply it to them?
 
So Jared Gillet was the VAR cnut on Sunday? Wasn't he the VAR cnut who got Casemiro red carded last season?
 
Regarding the City offside goals, Webb here admits it was offside.
Took 3 whole days

So Fulham will get an apology and the refs are dropped for the next round of games?
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
Regarding the City offside goals, Webb here admits it was offside.
Took 3 whole days

So Fulham will get an apology and the refs are dropped for the next round of games?
Click to expand...

I think I heard Shearer say they already got an apology. No idea if the VAR team are getting dropped though.
 
Watching that you have to wonder what is the logic for that audio being available to viewers during the game?

For a start, it would make the wait much less boring. It also removes the wild conspiracy accusations as we can clearly hear the logic and thought process behind the checks.
 
eire-red said:
Watching that you have to wonder what is the logic for that audio being available to viewers during the game?

For a start, it would make the wait much less boring. It also removes the wild conspiracy accusations as we can clearly hear the logic and thought process behind the checks.
Click to expand...

Because they only want to be transparent on their terms.
 
sparx99 said:
Yeah, outside of automating offside I’d be up for a challenge system. Each coach could get a challenge and they can use it on goals, red cards etc. If the decision is overturned you keep the challenge.

This would solve the issue of VAR deciding when refs should come to the monitor. Refs would simply review the play pitch side only when the challenge has been called. VAR wouldn’t then require actual refs as they’d only be used for providing images to pitch side monitor for the on-field ref to review.
Click to expand...

I'd be very wary of coaches or teams having challenges because as tennis checks show, these would be used very tactically and certainly more frequently. I remember some data from a few years ago saying that 2/3 of Premier League matches did not have a single review, you can imagine that with permission to call for one there'd be practically no matches without one and it'd become almost standard for a late winner to always be subject to a review, in a similar vein to how tennis players facing defeat at match point so frequently request a video check for the match winning shot even though everyone knows it was clear.
 
eire-red said:
Watching that you have to wonder what is the logic for that audio being available to viewers during the game?

For a start, it would make the wait much less boring. It also removes the wild conspiracy accusations as we can clearly hear the logic and thought process behind the checks.
Click to expand...

Current FIFPro rules prohibit live broadcast. PMGOL (Webb) want it apparently.
 
Pexbo said:
So they cover the Egan handball incident vs City but not the Romero incedent vs United?

It’s such a curated list. Useless.
Click to expand...

What was their take on the Egan v City incident?

It is intellectually dishonest to not compare to Romero v United and arguably the one in the Luton match, albeit a different scenario in how it occurred.

I'd be curious to hear paid pundits and former officials explain how Egan is a legit penalty but Romero was not.
 
SAF is the GOAT said:
They only put out the cases that makes them look good
Click to expand...
Yeah, who the hell was wondering why Van Dijk got sent off? Clear as day. Why not explain the Romero non handball for a start or how VAR decided that the Mac Allister red card wasn't a clear and obvious error, yet he got his suspension scrapped afterwards.

VAR is next to useless when they won't even use it to judge yellow cards which can lead to a red or to see whether a corner should actually be a goal kick or vice versa. That would be so easy to determine and takes about 3 seconds, no black and white area at all. The whole system is designed and used by such an incompetent bunch, it's infuriating to watch.
 
sullydnl said:
Well that's clearly not true. They covered both the Onana incident and Akanji offsides, which they presented as mistakes on the officials' part.


Click to expand...


They had to include the Onana one because of the ridiculous fake outrage it caused amonst the media and rival fans.
 
eire-red said:
Watching that you have to wonder what is the logic for that audio being available to viewers during the game?

For a start, it would make the wait much less boring. It also removes the wild conspiracy accusations as we can clearly hear the logic and thought process behind the checks.
Click to expand...

Not a chance it'll be broadcast live, they'll pick a few mistakes for 'transparency' but all the stuff that reflects really bad on them will never see the light of day.
 
Heard the VAR audio from the Wolves game, the Ref rightly says they never give them. And he's right they never do, so I've no idea why there was so much drama surrounding that decision.

Well we all know why the media overreacted and droned on about it for days, clicks/views because it was against United. PGMOL are weak as piss and easily manipulated.
 
stevoc said:
Heard the VAR audio from the Wolves game, the Ref rightly says they never give them. And he's right they never do, so I've no idea why there was so much drama surrounding that decision.

Well we all know why the media overreacted and droned on about it for days, clicks/views because it was against United. PGMOL are weak as piss and easily manipulated.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree with you.

The whole drama after the Wolves game was bizarre and utterly pathetic.

They made a rod for their own back by rushing to apologise and dismissing the VAR team and now they have nowhere else to go with shit decisions rolling in week in week out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.