Is that the lady-in-a-dress formation?
Van Gaal - Philosophy & Tactics
- Thread starter Alock1
- Start date
Is that the lady-in-a-dress formation?
Depends also, it wouldn't be the first time Van Gaal took a striker out of position and placed him as a winger. It will all depend on what Van Gaal does with Rooney. With 100% he won't get the striker spot, so its either a box to box midfielder type where he wants Rooney to fill in for a strootman type at The Netherlands, or a David Villa type LW.
Januzaj will mostly like play a lot, Van Gaal is always like that with talents that prove themselves.
Lol at arrow backwards, that's a literal translation of 'punt naar achteren', nobody in international football uses that expression in English like that, but it sounds good. Like I said, there are a lot of options, no one really knows how he's going to play. Thing is with Mata on midfield, if you look at the Sneijder discussion, he really seems to prefer midfielders with more athletic ability than technique at the moment. But Mata is not Sneijder, and United is not Holland so that might change.
I do think he will really like Carrick if he's fit and in form, so we'll have to wait and see.
3 midfielders, 1 anchor connecting to defense, 1 creative more forward pushing one (mata), 1 allrounder with high defensive and offensive work rate (signing/rooney).
Thats what Van Gaal played at Ajax, Netherlands and pretty much hammers on 24/7. He wanted to do it at Bayern but lacked a good creative midfielder.
Lol yeah didn't know how else to explain it :P. But the amount of times LVG says "punt naar achteren" just carves it into your head.
On sneijder, that doesn't really have much to do with the type of player, but with sneijder personally. As he can't be fecked to do anything and is constantly out of shape.
Which is why he converted Shweinstieger. At this point I just want it confirmed that hell be coming in, because honestly it would be epic.
I imagine the sigining everyone is alluding to here is Carvalho or Kroos, but then with all the rumours of Fabregas again...what exactly are we trying to do?
It definitely wouldn't be Rooney there, he asked for a transfer last time around and just isn't one, really. Mata might work, we'll have wait and see.
Well, if LvG takes over then Rooney most probably won't play as a striker and I can't imagine him playing in the 10 ahead of Mata and Kagawa either, so either midfield or wing for him.
I am looking forward to your posts in the summer. You are a muppet king in the making. And you will rule for long!
Well true, but Mourinho didn't play Mata for roughly the same reason Van Gaal is considering not playing Sneijder. First it was because of Sneijders fitness, but he is pretty fit now and still looked bad against France, because he is not really suited to play well on 'the break' (omschakeling). Same goes for Mata vs. Willian/Ramires for instance, they're so much better on the break and although a little less technical, they compensate with athleticism.
Rooney with his goalscoring and work rate can be vital for us if he is used well, doesn't even really matter where he plays coming to think of it, as long as he's motivated and fit and we have a good setup tactically.
Really? Is there no such concept of total football?? Admittedly, I haven't seen whole games of that 1974 dutch side, but from the youtube videos, it does look like people play in many different positions. You always had somebody or the other filling in the tactical positions in the whole setup in case people switched. I remember some goal where Cryuff defended while one of the fullbacks went way ahead in attack. He was all over the pitch.
And Muller is a poor man's Rooney??
At the end of his career, Muller would be a bigger player than Rooney IMO. He would have probably also won a world cup.And regarding Van Gaal's team, does it always have traditional wingers sticking to the line to provide width which he always wants? Do they cut in a lot? If not, Mata would be such a waste on the wings. In fact, playing Mata behind the striker and playing Rooney up top on the left like he used to in his early to middle career might be more suitable I think. Rooney won't be probably happy with that and we could see only one of Rooney and Rvp as the striker and playing in the team.
This lineup is absolutely terrible. Utd will end closer to relegation than to the title, when he uses this formation.
I think the only things, that are almost certain are RvP as CF and that he´ll use two winger; most likely one of them will be Januzaj. Mata wouldnt be a proper winger for his system, but could help out for a couple of games.
Let's presume that the rumors aren't true and we won't spend big for more than one player. What would he do with the current squad? Let's say he's given money for one CM. What do you think? He'll go for a play maker, a good passer who can control the tempo like Kroos or a more defensive midfielder who's able to close down opponents and add some physicality in the midfield?
I think his primary goal would be to make our midfield faster, not in terms of running and covering spaces but in terms of passing, off the ball movement and vision. After all he is a master of building up squads which can create space for themselves on the pitch. So, i believe he would love a player like Kroos.
Furthermore i don't think he would use Rooney behind RvP. Rooney and Muller are different players, they offer different things to their clubs. Muller will not make a career out of scoring dozens of goals in a season. But when it comes to creating spaces for his teammates he is as good as it gets. As van Gaal wants these qualities in his midfield i think he would at least try Adnan behind the forward.
On the other hand our attacking minded full backs can give him the opportunity to use inverted wingers, a tactic which he favors too. Rooney can play on the left as a second striker, while Mata can play the role of the advanced play maker. It's like Robben and Altintop at Bayern, maybe better. Any thoughts?
------------DeGea--------------
Rafael--Smalling-Jones--Evra----
--------Carrick-Kroos-----------
------------Januzaj-------------
--Mata-------RvP-------Rooney
And don't say Rooney will refuse to play on the wing. Trust me, if van Gaal gets here he will.
I think his primary goal would be to make our midfield faster, not in terms of running and covering spaces but in terms of passing, off the ball movement and vision. After all he is a master of building up squads which can create space for themselves on the pitch. So, i believe he would love a player like Kroos.
Furthermore i don't think he would use Rooney behind RvP. Rooney and Muller are different players, they offer different things to their clubs. Muller will not make a career out of scoring dozens of goals in a season. But when it comes to creating spaces for his teammates he is as good as it gets. As van Gaal wants these qualities in his midfield i think he would at least try Adnan behind the forward.
On the other hand our attacking minded full backs can give him the opportunity to use inverted wingers, a tactic which he favors too. Rooney can play on the left as a second striker, while Mata can play the role of the advanced play maker. It's like Robben and Altintop at Bayern, maybe better. Any thoughts?
------------DeGea--------------
Rafael--Smalling-Jones--Evra----
--------Carrick-Kroos-----------
------------Januzaj-------------
--Mata-------RvP-------Rooney
And don't say Rooney will refuse to play on the wing. Trust me, if van Gaal gets here he will.
I'd rather have Januzaj on the wing and Mata through the middle, so much more pace.
It'd be nice if he didn't submit to Rooney and we played Kagawa and Mata behind Van Persie. Add in a top class winger, two top midfielders and a new left-back. Sawted.
He created one of my favorite sides in Ajax 1995 playing 3-4-3. He really is the manager I'd be most certain will be able to not only handle United but tactically even refine it. If he saw a benefit of a 3 man defensive line he would use it, if he thought Welbeck should bench Rooney he would be the man to do it. I think he is what we need right now as Moyes was exactly the opposite.
One thing is certain, there has never been a harder time predicting how we would line up if he comes.
With our weakness at the full-back position I wouldn't be surprised if he tried a 3 man defense early on in training to see how it would work.
One thing is certain, there has never been a harder time predicting how we would line up if he comes.
With our weakness at the full-back position I wouldn't be surprised if he tried a 3 man defense early on in training to see how it would work.
Last edited:
Van Gaal will ship Rooney out tout suite if he doesn't think he's onside.
One thing is for sure , if van Gaal signs Failini is history .
Fellaini is on £120K a week, you'll have to subsidize his wages to get rid otherwise you're stuck with him for another 4 years.
Really? Is there no such concept of total football?? Admittedly, I haven't seen whole games of that 1974 dutch side, but from the youtube videos, it does look like people play in many different positions. You always had somebody or the other filling in the tactical positions in the whole setup in case people switched. I remember some goal where Cryuff defended while one of the fullbacks went way ahead in attack. He was all over the pitch.
And Muller is a poor man's Rooney??
And regarding Van Gaal's team, does it always have traditional wingers sticking to the line to provide width which he always wants? Do they cut in a lot? If not, Mata would be such a waste on the wings. In fact, playing Mata behind the striker and playing Rooney up top on the left like he used to in his early to middle career might be more suitable I think. Rooney won't be probably happy with that and we could see only one of Rooney and Rvp as the striker and playing in the team.
Yeah well like Cruijff and Van Hanegem said, it just happened naturally. Not like there was a coach who said ok lads, tonight we are going to play 'total football' by doing this or that. Just that when you have a fullback making a run, and a central midfielder who can defend, obviously he is going to take over his position and because they had a really great team both defensively and attackingly, it looked like it was some sort of tactical concept that they had trained on very long. While in reality they barely prepared for the World Cup, especially if you compare it to the amount of preparation teams have nowadays.
Also if you were not trolling about Müller being better, or a bigger player than Rooney, you're kind of a strange guy really
Müller is very good, but come on, he has a lot to show before he is on Rooneys level. Also what does Müller winning the World Cup with Germany have to do with it? Pedro has a World Cup. Messi hasn't, you get what I mean.
About the width and LVG, it's just what I've heard him say a lot. He usually says something like 'because the most space on the pitch is on the wings, it's the most important part, so you have to always use that space the best you can.' And then talks about how his teams wingplay was that day.
Last edited:
A bit dismissive of Rinus Michels? It's an obvious tactical concept that occurs to anybody who's played the game but finding a practical implementation didn't happen naturally.
Not dismissive at all. Why would the players not give the coach credit, if it truly were his concept? They said he was a great manager preparing them fitness wise and also at man managing, but the players often came with the ideas for the tactics, they all say that, not only Cruijff and van Hanegem, and they all find the 'total football' stigma a bit silly, as it was just very good players with common sense.
A lot of journalists have written books about our squad in 1974 and all, time and time again the total football concept is discussed and the conclusion is the same. Don't underestimate how ridiculously talented that squad was, except for young Rijsbergen and Rob Rensenbrink (brilliant player) all the players in the final had just won a couple of Europacup 1's the years before. Also under Michels, with Ajax and nobody in the Dutch press really called it total football, just quality football.
Don't understand why everyone assumes Rooney will be gone instantly and that van Gaal will absolutely despise him. I'm almost certain he'll be a key player under LvG.
Sounds odd to me. The perception outside Holland in the early 70s was that Michels was the major architect of 'total football' which was radically different to the static, defensive formations of the late 60s. This impression was reinforced by English-language books like 'Brilliant Orange'.
Well maybe it is sort of like 'tiki-taka' nowadays. Maybe people can make a good point now or in twenty years that Guardiola is the inventor or major architect of tika-taka football. While to me it's just what happens when you play Xavi, Iniesta, Messi etc. in the same team. And there were great teams before Guardiala's Barca that played a lot of combination football, like Cruijffs Barca, or Van Gaals Ajax. But obviously Guardiola has had his influence, just like Michels had his influence, so maybe he deserves the credits as the architect for tiki-taka.
Also believe there were some great Brazil World Cup squads before us who played attackingly, I don't know if their players were as disciplined as the Dutch in 1974, and whether that was down to tactics or to the nature of the players. We had Suurbier, Haan, Krol, Neeskens and Van Hanegem as players in 1974 who were very good both defensively and on the ball. So you sort off had the ideal squad for both attacking and defending.
Well I'm talking about the perception at the time and the radical change in European football that it represented. Tiki-taka was an evolution of Cruyff's style during his tenure at Barca and hence can be seen as the idiot bastard son of totaalvoetball.
same here
It depends, if Rooney looses possession as often as he does at times, LvG will be the last person to accept this. Especially not in the No 10 role, and RvP will be his main striker, not Rooney.
Cos Rooney is in a 'this town ain't big enough for the both of us' battle with van Cluntie and it's advantage RvC.
Well it could be, it is an interesting discussion. The question for me is just how much of it just happened naturally because of the players and their specific qualities and how much was down to tactical instructions (tactics were also considered way less important back then, f.e if teams now would spend 50% of their preparation on tactics, in 1974 it could have been just 10%).
Imagine you were coach of a team that consists of
Dani Alves ---- Javi Martinez ---- Mascherano ---- Marcelo
---------------- Vidal ---------- Gerrard ---------------
----------------------- Rooney --------------------------
Ronaldo ------------------------------------------- Bale
----------------------- Messi ---------------------------
Martinez was a midfielder then used by Bielsa as CB, also at Bayern, great footballer, great defensively. Mascherano same story. Vidal was a centre-back for Chili under Bielsa, so again he can defend and attack very well. Gerrard can defend and attack. Rooney can defend and attack.
Bale and Ronaldo could track back for Alves and Marcelo if they were willing. Messi would be the Cruijff who just plays everywhere. And except for Messi, everybody can roughly take over everybody's position easily.
I'm sure you don't have to do very much tactically to make the team mentioned above play 'total football'.
Back in 1974 was the same story. Injuries in defense so Michels opted for Arie Haan in defence last minute, who was a midfielder at EC1 winners Ajax (Javi Martinez). Van Hanegem (Gerrard) was very tough-tackling and had a brilliant vision and passing range. Neeskens (Vidal) could both attack and defend, very dynamic, and so on.
You get my point.
Last edited:
I thought you Arsenal fans called him Van Pursestrings?
That's not what the away crew call him.
DDG
Rafael CB Smalling Shaw
DM
Januzaj Mata
WF STR WF
Rafael CB Smalling Shaw
DM
Januzaj Mata
WF STR WF
The formation a lot of you think he'll end up using is similar to the one Moyes tried towards the end of the Newcastle game. With Fletcher holding, Kagawa and Mata more central and deep, with Nani and Januzaj on the wings with Hernandez up front.
I'm really excited to see his development of De Gea. We made far more use of Van Der Sar's technical ability in his last few years and I thought that distribution had been a key factor when bringing in De Gea.
I'm really excited to see his development of De Gea. We made far more use of Van Der Sar's technical ability in his last few years and I thought that distribution had been a key factor when bringing in De Gea.
HE WON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM AT UNITED.
Cue Van Gaal turning Cleverley into a beastly combination of Xavi and Iniesta!
I think I'm in love with him. If we don't get him now I'm going to weep like Rapunzel with split ends
120k/week +£27m transfer. Moyes and Woodward really fecked us over. Isn't Woodward supposed to be a brilliant negotiator?
Bayern fans, I've seen a good few people around the net talking about how when Van Gaal took the job (or immediately before it) Uli Hoeneß said something along the lines of
'FC Bayern will always play with two strong CFs in a flat 4-4-2 system.'
I can't seem to find a source anywhere, probably because it's English speakers paraphrasing rather than literal translations.
If true, it just shows you the doctrine that Bayern were playing to, thinking about and planning around (transfers etc.). It's crazy when you compare a before Van Gaal to after.
'FC Bayern will always play with two strong CFs in a flat 4-4-2 system.'
I can't seem to find a source anywhere, probably because it's English speakers paraphrasing rather than literal translations.
If true, it just shows you the doctrine that Bayern were playing to, thinking about and planning around (transfers etc.). It's crazy when you compare a before Van Gaal to after.