I'm excited..
(I know it's far from certain, but still..)
(I know it's far from certain, but still..)
Van Gaal - Philosophy & Tactics
- Thread starter Alock1
- Start date
I find it very interesting. The way I see it is that if I'm really passionate about something then I'll try and get into it on as deep a level as my amateur brain can go. It doesn't mean I can ever profess to be an expert on any part of it, of course not, but it's nice to try and understand as much about the finer things that we simple football fans can't see on the surface.
I think the nextbit suggests its a more general philosophy of Van Gaal's:
For all the success that the ultra-high press approach has had lately, personally I find Van Gaal's idea of pressing a bit deeper and transitioning quicker quite appealing.
think about tiki-taka but 10x more boring. The way we played in the second season was eventually the most boring thing I have ever seen. Possession and strict position play have been key. Our opponents just started to double-men-mark Ribery/Robben and all creativity was gone; they werent allowed to roam around to create space and because it was forbidden to take any significant risk, we just passed around the pitch, hoping for that one genius idea, that barely happened.
The defense was vulnerable, playing a semi-high line with little pressing.
He changed a few things in the end (more freedom for Ribery/robben); better defense, but it was too little and too late.
I am grateful, that he laid the foundation for our current success, but he was very one dimensional and his tactics seemed to be a bit out-dated.
I think his approach for Holland/Netherlands is a bit more flexible, but I dont really follow them.
His biggest strengh was to find/improve players. His men-management was strength and weakness at the same time.
I really enjoy it to a point, but like Gio says there's a strong tendency for this type of discussion to get swamped with bullshit.
Nice work OP.
Should be exciting times for the club if Louis is appointed. He's exactly the cultural shock we need tactically and in terms of his cocksureness. I believe he can be a great mentor to the likes of Januzaj, Welbeck and even Cleverley (who isn't a bad player in a well defined system).
My only scepticism of the man is that he's prone to buying absolute turds in the market and we'll have to be vigilant about incoming transfers. He's signed some stinkers down the years - Zenden, Reiziger, Simao, Boggard, Dani... Employing a Sporting Director might not be a bad idea with his record. Or we might witness a dutch revoltuion of the wrong kind at Old Trafford with Narsingh, Fer and Jethro Tull.
Should be exciting times for the club if Louis is appointed. He's exactly the cultural shock we need tactically and in terms of his cocksureness. I believe he can be a great mentor to the likes of Januzaj, Welbeck and even Cleverley (who isn't a bad player in a well defined system).
My only scepticism of the man is that he's prone to buying absolute turds in the market and we'll have to be vigilant about incoming transfers. He's signed some stinkers down the years - Zenden, Reiziger, Simao, Boggard, Dani... Employing a Sporting Director might not be a bad idea with his record. Or we might witness a dutch revoltuion of the wrong kind at Old Trafford with Narsingh, Fer and Jethro Tull.
Might find it boring but id be abit worried if our coach found it boring.
Good fap
Yep. Posted something similar earlier. Sounds like a man after SAF's heart.
Just saying it seems like he is flexible enough to tailor his approach based on what he has on hand. Which can only be a good thing.
Roger that. Also: so that's how you avoid the filter.
I think it's more likely that they sit deep because it hides the defenders flaws, they have a poor defence and pushing it high would be suicide most of the time.
Yeah, I mean, a lot of us said after the Fulham game that Moyes should have let Fulham push out somewhat and have some meaningless possession. As long as we contained them then allowing them some time on the ball would open up more space and opportunities when we eventually did win it back.
Using the Fulham game as an example, I like that he wants his midfielders to be open and contribute to the width. Against Fulham, everybody except our full-backs and possibly Young was in fairly central areas and it allowed them to pack a narrow line.
Yep. For sure, in source [6] he talks about when he played with 3 at the back. It meant that it was harder for them to defend the line, so they had to press higher up the pitch.
Good OP Alcock.
Now can someone summarise all his crazy moments when he fell out with his clubs/players & why.
Just trying to think of the probability of it happening at OT.
Now can someone summarise all his crazy moments when he fell out with his clubs/players & why.
Just trying to think of the probability of it happening at OT.
I think Mata is capable, he was a regular 20 a season man in all comps at Valencia.
But his current game from his time at United and Chelsea has changed from back then. For example at Valencia he made a good wide option because he'd make runs in behind the defence and usually have the composure to chip in with lots of goals. At United/Chelsea he comes to get on the ball between midfield and attack and barely ever makes movements in on goal.
I think with work he can get more goals, moving away from how he currently plays, but it just sounds like Rooney is more what he'd have in mind as a goalscorer and thats the way he can get RVP playing too which we know he's going to want to. So I'm not sure Mata would initially get the chance to show he could get the goals Van Gaal is talking about.
However, thats assuming RVP is fit. If he's not fit to be selected then Mata is more likely to be given the chance and can prove he can do it.
I think I want Van Gaal now.
Rubbish.
I've got to say I really want van Gaal now.
Interesting to see how van Gaal talks about how the midfielders contribute to overloading the wide areas to create spaces in the middle. This will require our central midfielders to be good on the ball as they can get congested out wide and become unable to get into the middle areas. Plus, it will create the spaces for the wide forwards, attacking midfielders, etc., to exploit the space in the middle. I'm not sure he'd have the central midfielders go out wide during our buildup, though. I think, first and foremost, the midfielders would look to put the ball into players in dangerous spaces. If those spaces aren't available, then the midfielders would keep the ball and maintain discipline, and once we control the pace and tempo of the game, the midfielders can overload the wide areas to create space in the middle.
Funnily enough, this is what our former manager did in his last season at Everton. However, he didn't really stick with this approach, for whatever reason...
Still, let's see if van Gaal gets here. He looks like a guy who can set the foundations for a world class football team.
Funnily enough, this is what our former manager did in his last season at Everton. However, he didn't really stick with this approach, for whatever reason...
Still, let's see if van Gaal gets here. He looks like a guy who can set the foundations for a world class football team.
Ok, thanks for that.
Very interesting, thanks for that.
I'm not sure that's the purpose of the philosophy/tactics thread.
Someone put a video of him with Fifa.com yesterday, definitely said the type of stuff we should bring in. I'll try to find it.
Not necessarily, he said he prefers a midfielder there, and playing with a striker there messes up the balance and doesn't work defensively for the team, though at Netherlands its fine because of the lack of quality opposition basically.
The only thing he doesn't negotiate is the diamond. I'm not talking about a static diamond in the midfield, but 11 players (yes, the keeper included) creating diamond shape formations everywhere on the pitch. He is one of the best teachers of Total Football and it will be very interesting to see how he does in England. It's nonsense that players like Mata don't fit in his plans.
He needs players who are excellent on the ball, have great understanding of the game and can "see" the whole pitch. He wants his players to always attempt the "easy" pass to their nearest teammate. The open spaces are created with never stopping off the ball movement. This has nothing to do with Moyes, whose teams are always very rigid with 2 flat lines and players with very little freedom on the pitch. Moyes is a bad version of managers like Mourinho or Simeone. Their primary objective is to use rigid formations, narrow the spaces available and suffocate the opponent. Van Gaal wants to create spaces, he wants his teams to have possession and initiative.
Take a look at this beauty: If you don't remember Ajax of 1995, let me explain what you'll see there: Finidi, the right winger has dropped back to help the CBs and the keeper because the opposition is pressing high on the pitch. The keeper is in trouble, so Litmanen (the second striker) drops into DM position to become available for a pass. Litmanen finds De Boer (the winger, not his brother the defender) who has left the wing and has moved into the midfield. He passes to Davids (DM) who has moved into a more attacking position. The player who becomes the extra man in attack, makes the run and gives the assist is Blind...... the sweeper!!!
Absolutely.
Of course. van Gaal is radically different from Moyes. It's just that one part that I found interesting. He isn't just about central play like many wannabe head coaches/managers want to do, nowadays. He looks at the game from a broader perspective than, say, us posters who think we know quite a bit about football (I include myself in that list, too). That was the point I was trying to make.
van Gaal isn't all about central play. For him, it's creating spaces and supporting the ball holders, everywhere. Make sure that the team can keep the ball, and punish them for pushing up high. Other than his demand for triangles, everywhere, it's essentially what we got from Sir Alex for much of his time, here (exclude the latter years as he started playing slower and more rigidly).
Yeah I guess
Excited to see what LVG can do.
I've decided, this is the man I want.
Ancelotti is the safer option - he's managed in the prem and he's less divisive but I believe the potential reward is much less with him.
With Van Gaal, I'd be confident that we'd play good football and gain back an identity and clear philosophy of how football should be played. With Ancelotti, the positive is that he can adapt to his players well and play a style to suit them - would mean that most likely we'd take to him sooner, but we'd continue to play how we have been the last few years and would have the same issue come the next manager. You can clearly see the effect that Van Gaal has had on Barcelona, Bayern and Ajax - it may not have been a happy end to his relationships but he left them good foundations to be built upon.
I think there are tough decisions to be made, and Van Gaal is the man to do that. He's the man to put faith in the youngsters or ones who others have given up on and it's something that we have always cherished about the club.
I hope we get him and I'd be incredibly excited to see what happens to us next season.
Ancelotti is the safer option - he's managed in the prem and he's less divisive but I believe the potential reward is much less with him.
With Van Gaal, I'd be confident that we'd play good football and gain back an identity and clear philosophy of how football should be played. With Ancelotti, the positive is that he can adapt to his players well and play a style to suit them - would mean that most likely we'd take to him sooner, but we'd continue to play how we have been the last few years and would have the same issue come the next manager. You can clearly see the effect that Van Gaal has had on Barcelona, Bayern and Ajax - it may not have been a happy end to his relationships but he left them good foundations to be built upon.
I think there are tough decisions to be made, and Van Gaal is the man to do that. He's the man to put faith in the youngsters or ones who others have given up on and it's something that we have always cherished about the club.
I hope we get him and I'd be incredibly excited to see what happens to us next season.
He clearly states that he will take advantage of the set of players that he has at his disposal. If he has two world class strikers, then he might play 4-4-2. But he clearly seems to prefer 4-3-3.
It's bascially Rooney+RVP vs Rooney/RVP + Mata/Kagawa. Which combination does he consider to be the strongest? If he goes for the latter, then it will be very interesting to see if he drops Rooney or RVP, or choose to play one of them as a left forward.
Personally I think he'll go for a 4-3-3, with Mata/Kagawa(or both?) playing as an advanced midfielder.
It's bascially Rooney+RVP vs Rooney/RVP + Mata/Kagawa. Which combination does he consider to be the strongest? If he goes for the latter, then it will be very interesting to see if he drops Rooney or RVP, or choose to play one of them as a left forward.
Personally I think he'll go for a 4-3-3, with Mata/Kagawa(or both?) playing as an advanced midfielder.
I think in whichever formation he plays then he will have a forward who is leading the line and pushing the defense back and another which makes use of the space and plays between the lines.
He wants this player to score goals, but then said he prefers a midfielder who can go forward rather than a striker who drops to play here so it'd be interesting to see which he plays. Kagawa and Mata are both technically better and more likely to keep possession and make most of opposition being disorganized but Rooney is more of a guarantee for the goal numbers.
I'm confident it'll be Van Persie who leads the line though. He's his captain for Holland, and has been their top scorer during qualifying playing under him.
The plot thickens!
Can he make a good partnership out of Rooney and RVP, or will Rooney play as a left forward/bench warmer, and thus become angry and confused(while wiping his tears with his massive paycheck)? Whatever happens, a sense a shitstorm coming. I'm both scared and excited. We need a coach who dares to make unpopular decisions. Hopefully it pays off.
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His knowledge of the game is of course outstanding, he's always been spoken of as one of Europe's absolute best coaches. It would also brighten up our youth set-up prospects.
Refreshing to read his quotes and check his interviews. I think he would revolutionise the club.
Van Persie to be captain.
Refreshing to read his quotes and check his interviews. I think he would revolutionise the club.
Van Persie to be captain.
Hmm, wonder if he would bring Kluivert with him.
That video of LvG impressed me.
He thrives on them it seems.
Definitely agree about the scared and excited part too, it's one of those things that has the potential to be amazing or shit.
No, I don't think they will ever play well together. But if anyone can do it, it's probably him.
I think he'd have no problem dropping one of them if needed though. Ancelotti I'm less sure about - his insistance on playing both Torres and Drogba was the end of him. Of course, I don't know how much pressure was on him to play Torres from above but there is going to be big pressure for a manager to drop Rooney too.
I think it will be interesting to see how a foreign coach utilises Rooney. I feel he needs to seen with a new eyes as he's been turned into a player without a defined position lately.
The man is a legend, just appoint him. Total football.
@Alock1
Do you know Van Gaal's philosophy on wingers? Seeing as he prefers to call his formation 4-3-3, I'm inclined to believe that he prefers wide forwards/goalscoring wingers? Kind of like Liverpool's current style?
If he prefers goalscoring wingers, then he has a problem. We don't have single winger like that. Whenever Welbeck plays on the left/right, his goals/assist return is pathetic. Nani hasn't been the same player for a couple of years now. Valencia is no goalscorer either. And don't even get me started on Young...
It seems to me that Van Gaal has two types of wingers to choose from: classical wingers(Young, Valencia and Nani) and playmaking wingers(Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj(sort of)). Which of these do you think he prefers, purely from a philosophical point of view? We all know that our playmaking wingers are better than our classical wingers, but if Van Gaal doesn't like these players, then we really need to do some serious shopping this summer.
Do you know Van Gaal's philosophy on wingers? Seeing as he prefers to call his formation 4-3-3, I'm inclined to believe that he prefers wide forwards/goalscoring wingers? Kind of like Liverpool's current style?
If he prefers goalscoring wingers, then he has a problem. We don't have single winger like that. Whenever Welbeck plays on the left/right, his goals/assist return is pathetic. Nani hasn't been the same player for a couple of years now. Valencia is no goalscorer either. And don't even get me started on Young...
It seems to me that Van Gaal has two types of wingers to choose from: classical wingers(Young, Valencia and Nani) and playmaking wingers(Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj(sort of)). Which of these do you think he prefers, purely from a philosophical point of view? We all know that our playmaking wingers are better than our classical wingers, but if Van Gaal doesn't like these players, then we really need to do some serious shopping this summer.