Van Gaal - Philosophy & Tactics

[Alock1]

I know we've got two threads on Van Gaal already - but both are being bogged down by talk of his personality, other candidates and what not. I thought it'd be good to get an insight into his philosophy, the system(s) he uses, tactics etc. I've enjoyed trying to learn more about him today, so thought I'd share some stuff (some already been shared in other threads).

The below quotes are taken from Van Gaal himself, some will be responses in interviews, others (probably were responses) are general quotes I've found.

[1] People talk about the 'Van Gaal system'. How would you describe this?

It's a footballing philosophy more than a system. A system depends on the players you have. I played 4-3-3 with Ajax, 2-3-2-3 with Barcelona and I can play 4-4-2 with AZ. I'm flexible. The philosophy stays the same though.

[1] How would you describe this philosophy then, and can you implement it with any team?

I don't think that you can adapt it to every possible situation. You need the right mindset, and it depends on how the players see the coach and vice versa. The coach is the focal point of the team but you need to have an open mind, and so do all the players. Everyone needs to work together to achieve a common goal. Preparing your tactical formation is essential. Each player needs to know where he has to be, and that is why there needs to be mutual understanding because you need absolute discipline. This is a sport played by 22 men, and there are 11 opponents out there playing as a team. Each individual needs to know who he has to beat and be there to support his team-mates.

[2] At Bayern:

We play very attractively at Bayern. We are always looking to attack and put opponents under incredible pressure.
I have my own ways, I'm not going to change and I have no desire to. My way is a footballing philosophy more than a system. A system depends on the players – I've played 4-3-3 with Ajax, 2-3-2-3 with Barcelona and 4-4-2 with AZ – but a philosophy is for life.

The coach is the team's focal point, so preparing the tactical formation is essential. Every player must know where he has to be and support his team-mates. There has to be absolute discipline and mutual understanding. Discipline is the basis of creativity and flexibility.

[3][4]Dealing with players:

I will face the whole group when we discuss team tactics. I coach the starting eleven when we prepare for a game. I coach very personally. Up close and personal. In their face. I try to reach inside of them. Everything I do and say is to motivate. To make them better. More aware. Every time I see the players, I give them an evaluation moment. I tell them where they stand, in my book. I need to make them better. Or I need to make sure they perform better. And I tell them: I am giving you tools to become a better player. It’s not personal. I am not angry or negative. I see that there is room for improvement. I explain all players how I want to use them.

[5]Comparing his Holland team to Barcelona

Correct. In my view, this fits our skills better. We want to create some space. Make the playing field tight. Easier to get possession back and once we do, we can use the space up front with the specific qualities of Robben, Lens, Narsingh, Schaken and Van Persie. We sort of demonstrated that against – of all opponents – Andorra. Against them, we pressured high up the park. We did get the ball back early but hardly any space to move. Against Romania, we dropped deeper and we were much more effective. I call that provoking pressure. We did that in my AZ days too, but no one recognised it. Everyone said we played so offensive, but we really didn’t. We were quick on the break once we had the ball, sure, but we always created our space first. That is a subtle difference to the Barcelona system, which I want Oranje to play. The passing game Barca plays is technically perfect, but its too wide. They play the ball 10 meters diagonally max, and then back again or wide to the other flank. I believe in bypassing the nearest stations and finding the goal more directly. You need to provoke the space first, so to speak. And then you can utilise space for swift, deep actions. I think it’s more entertaining and more effective. Barca wants the ball really quickly but they will be high up the park and they will have absorped lots of space doing so. Despite the moments of genius of a couple of world class players it gets boring, to me. KNVB wants me to develop or re-discover a Dutch style of playing. Barca style isn't.

[6]On what features are needed to be considered a top team

First, the players … must have individual qualities… not only as a football player but also as a human being. Because that is also very important, because you have to play in a team and not individually... and then you need a very good
trainer coach, that can transfer an philosophy of football... a way of football... and then the eleven players has to
perform that... so, the chemistry between the technical quality of the head coach, or the technical staff, with the players
selection has to be very good.

[6]Dominant football

That you decide how the opponent play their football and not that the opponent decides where we have to play...

[6]General system

I want 8 lines... 8 lines... so many as possible... because then the occupation of the pitch it's better… so we are blue... the best occupation of the pitch is this system... 1,2,3,4,5,6,7... and with this dynamic one line more [Figure 1]... but depends where is the ball... when the ball is here he has to go here... so also form a line to pass, but when you play that system you have always triangles… you have always two options for here... here... two options…also more... it's the same here... two options... in the middle it's always more... here it's also a triangle... a triangle.. so that’s why 4-3-3, in my opinion, is the best system and you can play with a defensively player or an offensive player (triangle of midfield)
it’s dependable of the quality of your players. When you play a 4-4-2 a lot of teams are doing that, then you have not so much lines... you see... and it’s easy to defend … therefore I played... when I have two good strikers in a window, so then I have six lines, 1,2,3,4,5,6 (He doesn’t count the GR) and dynamically more… [Figure 2]

Figure 1:

Spoiler

Figure 2:

[6]On having/using possession.

I think that when opponent it's disorganized and when we gain the ball, then you have to take benefits of the disorganization... but when you always pass wrongly and you lose the ball... then I said... no, no, no… patient, because you see that you always lost the ball, then you have to gain the ball again and again... that it cost us a lot of energy... so when the former is well you can do that and pass well…

Then you lose the control of the game, then you always lose the ball, they dominate the game.. so, ball possession it's always important... but it's not so important to score goals... that is not like that when you have 60-70% that you score goals... That it's not the consequence. Because when you have 70% of the ball, then you are playing near... and you cannot score... so you have to dictate where they defend and we can do that to go back.. then they have to come, and
then you have space when you lose the ball every time… then you have to run to the ball... and then you lose your dominance.. so that's not good... so the vertical is the pass without risk... the width pass it’s always risky...That's why when they are here... and then you have to pass whitely... then you have a problem... then they can... go in a transition... and you have a lot of players in front of the ball...and then the space is big...

When we have the ball they (midfielders) have to open… always at the sides, it’s very important… because of that they (opponent) have to defend width and then we have more space…
[The midfielders need] A lot of quality…(…Because these players need to play inside and outside) … inside defensively and outside when we have the ball… and they have to dribble… and then they have to be orientated for a lot of things when we attack.

[They should be] Thinkers. Brain. But a lot of trainer coaches want to be here defender always with me… thinkers. Guardiola, Xavi, Jong… always that kind of players.

[6]On a number 10

Number 10 I liked more a midfielder that can go… (more a midfielder then a second striker that come back…) yes… Now I play with a second striker and defensively I doesn’t not work for the team… but at this level in Netherlands wecan keep the safety… but it’s always more difficult… when is defensively… and he can go there also it’s better… but he has to score… this man has to score… so our second striker scores 20 goals… this man has to score… Litmanen always twenty, twenty five goals, Bergkamp twenty, twenty five… not the (striker position)… the ten… because he takes benefits of him…

[6][On the no.10 dropping] -
I don’t like it. He (second striker) have to be always behind the midfield line… so they (opponent) have the midfield line, they have a defensive line and then the strikers (our)… so he comes here it’s easily to defend (in front of midfield line)… they can do also with four… it’s easy “boom”… he has to be here… and always not to close of them (defenders line) because he defends him. So close to them (midfielder’s line)…and then in a free space and open…

He plays behind the midfield… (…with the back…)… No, no… I have to be open… he has to run always “contra”… “Contra” it’s not in front of him (opponent midfielder) because then he can see the pass line… the ball and is opponent. When you play like that, he can’t see the ball and him… so that’s contra… very important what I’m saying now.

Sources below.

 

[Alock1]

[7]Here is a preview on Van Gaals Dutch national team (Kid Moyes posted this in the other threads)

To understand how the current Netherlands team plays is to understand Van Gaal's footballing philosophy which has guided him for over two decades. As Van Gaal himself admits, what formation he uses is changeable, but the philosophy is not. In his career his teams have played 3-4-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-3, and 4-2-3-1, but the ethos behind these teams has always remained constant:
Maintain possession/constant circulation of the ball
Build attacks from the back/If an attack cannot be initiated from the midfield, work the ball back to the center-backs or goalkeeper
Width must be attained at all times in the attacking third, whether it be by the winger or fullback
(When playing 4-3-3) A midfield 3 consisting of a holding player, box-to-box, and playmaker
Fluidity of movement, manipulate and create spaces to dominate the opposition
Most importantly, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Every individual must be completely dedicated to working for the collective, or they have no place in the team.

Sources
[1]http://www.fifa.com/world-match-centre/news/newsid/667/683/index.html
[2]http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/may/16/louis-van-gaal-bayern-munich
[3]http://dutchsoccersite.org/the-big-lvg-interview-pt-1/
[4]http://dutchsoccersite.org/the-big-lvg-interview-pt-2/
[5]http://dutchsoccersite.org/the-big-lvg-interview-pt-3/
[6]http://jeddavies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Louis-Van-Gaal-interview.pdf
[7]http://thenewlibero.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/world-cup-preview-netherlands-and.html

It's worth checking out these sources by the way, as there's plenty of interesting stuff in there which I haven't touched upon here.

 

[Bojan11]

Good thread.

Just wondering is he a fan of high pressing?

 

[Empire]

Futbol total.

Captain? Robin?

 

[kouroux]

Very good and informative OP @Alock1

 

[MUFC07]

Excellent work, @Alock1

I'm not sure over Van Gaal. If he can get the best out of Robin for 2 years, help rebuild and leave us in good shape, them it's alright. Then we shall look for a more modern manager with fresh ideas. Someone that steals the show: among the lines of Klopp, Simeone, Conte, etc.

 

[Ekeke]

Doesn't sound like he'd like Mata behind the striker. More likely to put Rooney there with, you guessed it, RVP leading the line

 

[United22]

Doesn't sound like he'd like Mata behind the striker. More likely to put Rooney there with, you guessed it, RVP leading the line

He doesn't even play with a man behind the striker. He plays the Barca like 4-3-3 with one holding midfielder and 2 advanced midfielders. The lone striker will have 2 men flanking him

 

[Ekeke]

He doesn't even play with a man behind the striker. He plays the Barca like 4-3-3 with one holding midfielder and 2 advanced midfielders. The lone striker will have 2 men flanking him

Like he says, the formations can change. But he was very clear in the part about the number 10 not dropping deep and scoring 20-25 goals a season

 

[Successful]

[3][4]Dealing with players:
I will face the whole group when we discuss team tactics. I coach the starting eleven when we prepare for a game. I coach very personally. Up close and personal. In their face. I try to reach inside of them. Everything I do and say is to motivate. To make them better. More aware. Every time I see the players, I give them an evaluation moment. I tell them where they stand, in my book. I need to make them better. Or I need to make sure they perform better. And I tell them: I am giving you tools to become a better player. It’s not personal. I am not angry or negative. I see that there is room for improvement. I explain all players how I want to use them.

I believe him and Ashley Young will have a lot of talking to do.

 

[hungrywing]

Nice OP.

Spray some anti-repetitive repellent in the thread just in case.

Doesn't sound like he'd like Mata behind the striker. More likely to put Rooney there with, you guessed it, RVP leading the line

Nuclearexplosion.gif

Good thread.

Just wondering is he a fan of high pressing?

Sounds like he does whatever is necessary to pre-emptively counter the opposition set up. So yes he'll press high up if the opponent is vulnerable to that but he's not married to any one thing.

The Romania example sounds like what we did in Europe during the Ronaldo years. Those 4-5-1s looked 'defensive' but what it really was was an aggressive counter-attacking set up: 'Come on, then. Try and play like you're the home team knowing you're up against an extremely competent back four and THIS counter attack.'

 

[Bojan11]

I believe him and Ashley Young will have a lot of talking to do.

I'd wonder what he'd make of The Bebe too.

 

[golden_blunder]

Mata is screwed if he takes over

 

[iBoss]

"That you decide how the opponent play their football and not that the opponent decides where we have to play".

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

[adexkola]

The Romania example sounds like what we did in Europe during the Ronaldo years. Those 4-5-1s looked 'defensive' but what it really was was an aggressive counter-attacking set up: 'Come on, then. Try and play like you're the home team knowing you're up against an extremely competent back four and THIS counter attack.'

fap fap fap

 

[UnofficialDevil]

So what went wrong with his philosophy and tactics the second year at Bayern?

Serious question.

 

[Alock1]

Like he says, the formations can change. But he was very clear in the part about the number 10 not dropping deep and scoring 20-25 goals a season

Well, in the interview he does [6] he adds

Yes, not deep... that's one striker, and he has to ties the central defender to pick him up... because then the spaces here it's bigger... so that's why I played like this... and that’s why I played in 4-3-3 with a second striker, the number 10, mostly... and dependable of the quality of the player he is a second striker or a third midfielder... So Litmanen in Ajax... has a third midfielder... Dennis Bergkamp is a second striker.

So he'd probably be open to both. It'll be interesting.. he says he wants lots of goals, but Mata is capable of goals too. Rooney forces the ball more whereas he prefers somebody to cycle possession rather than risk losing it constantly, which is something that Mata can better provide. And of course, he says that he would prefer a midfielder who 'can go' rather than a striker who 'drops' playing at number 10.

 

[hungrywing]

fap fap fap

Good *** or bad ***. Serious question.

 

[Successful]

I'd wonder what he'd make of The Bebe too.

He would probably have to send him to the youth academy so he could learn the basics of the game like how to kick a ball.

 

[NoLogo]

So what went wrong with his philosophy and tactics the second year at Bayern?

Serious question.

Zombie passing.

 

[hungrywing]

...So he'd probably be open to both. It'll be interesting.. he says he wants lots of goals, but Mata is capable of goals too. Rooney forces the ball more whereas he prefers somebody to cycle possession rather than risk losing it constantly, which is something that Mata can better provide. And of course, he says that he would prefer a midfielder who 'can go' rather than a striker who 'drops' playing at number 10.

That's what I read from it too rather that what Ekeke posted.

 

[Patchbeard]

Doesn't sound like he'd like Mata behind the striker. More likely to put Rooney there with, you guessed it, RVP leading the line

Some of his philosophies sound a bit too complex for Wayne. Mata's intelligence and better English may give him the upper hand.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Great thread Alock.

Good thread.

Just wondering is he a fan of high pressing?

This bit would suggest he isn't a big fan of high pressing. There's a logic to what he said and it would fit in well with our traditional love of swift counter-attacks

Correct. In my view, this fits our skills better. We want to create some space. Make the playing field tight. Easier to get possession back and once we do, we can use the space up front with the specific qualities of Robben, Lens, Narsingh, Schaken and Van Persie. We sort of demonstrated that against – of all opponents – Andorra. Against them, we pressured high up the park. We did get the ball back early but hardly any space to move. Against Romania, we dropped deeper and we were much more effective. I call that provoking pressure. We did that in my AZ days too, but no one recognised it. Everyone said we played so offensive, but we really didn’t. We were quick on the break once we had the ball, sure, but we always created our space first. That is a subtle difference to the Barcelona system, which I want Oranje to play.

 

[HabeasC]

433 with Mata, Rooney and RVP up top and Kagawa, CDM (Carrick/Fellaini) and new CM

Could work...

 

[NoLogo]

He is not a fan of "high pressing" in the sense that Klopp is but closing down was always part of Bayern's game. The real pressing only came during Heynckes second year for Bayern though.

 

[hungrywing]

...This bit would suggest he isn't a big fan of high pressing. There's a logic to what he said and it would fit in well with our traditional love of swift counter-attacks

I think he's just talking about the national team specifically and it's an approach based on the players he has at his disposal.

 

[United22]

I believe him and Ashley Young will have a lot of talking to do.

About which mid table club he sees himself at in the transfer window

 

[iBoss]

On SS yesterday, Carragher and Neville were talking about Liverpool's defence being too deep. Is it possible that Rodgers is doing the same thing by conceding space to create space? So that when they break (quick players like Sturridge, Sterling etc) have a lot more space to work with? It would make sense and seeing as they move the ball quite quickly it would make sense.

We have missed pace and precision all season.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Does anyone else find in depth discussion of footballing tactics exruciatingly dull?

Not dissing the thread. The OP looks interesting. I even read most of it. Started losing the will to live at the "8 lines" bit (complete with diagram) and stopped reading shortly after. I tried, though, I really tried.

Maybe it's a "football hipster" thing? I can't imagine anything more tedious than Jonathan Wilson's "Inverting the Pyramid" but I guess that means I'm not down with the kids, right?

 

[hungrywing]

Actually Young is the type of personality to respond well to a manager like Van Gaal.

A lot of dopey types do well under "I will fecking kill you" type motivation provided the motivator also knows what needs fixing.

 

[Twigg]

How do we expect he would line up at United, signings or none?

 

[RedSky]

So what went wrong with his philosophy and tactics the second year at Bayern?

Serious question.

Injuries. They didn't have great squad depth back then either so the injuries hit them hard. Goal scoring pressure was on Muller and Gomez. Defence struggled. Dortmund had a wonderful season and did the double over Bayern. In the first 10 games they had 15 points.

Games Missed due to Injury:
Robben 18 games
Diego Contento 9 games
Ribery 8 games
Kroos 7 games
Badstuber 7 games
Alaba 7 games (was loaned out 2nd half of the season to get fitness back, he was 18).

Despite Robben missing 18 games he still finished joint 2nd highest goal scorer for Bayern on 12 goals.

 

[hungrywing]

How do we expect he would line up at United, signings or none?

Same as Moyes except the score at FT.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Does anyone else find in depth discussion of footballing tactics exruciatingly dull?

Not dissing the thread. The OP looks interesting. I even read most of it. Started losing the will to live at the "8 lines" bit (complete with diagram) and stopped reading shortly after. I tried, though, I really tried.

Maybe it's a "football hipster" thing? I can't imagine anything more tedious than Jonathan Wilson's "Inverting the Pyramid" but I guess that means I'm not down with the kids, right?

Just down to preference really, some fans of the game really love the tactical aspect. I find it interesting, and always try to learn. I've read, and enjoyed, inverting the pyramid. I do think it may be a generational thing, as you said, this finer interest in the tactical game.

 

[moses]

The thing is Plan A failed, the Fergie Lite Option, the new empire ... so we will probably see a high turnover of managers like other clubs, so with that in mind, Van Gaal with all his flaws is not a bad call.

 

[moses]

Does anyone else find in depth discussion of footballing tactics exruciatingly dull?

Not dissing the thread. The OP looks interesting. I even read most of it. Started losing the will to live at the "8 lines" bit (complete with diagram) and stopped reading shortly after. I tried, though, I really tried.

Maybe it's a "football hipster" thing? I can't imagine anything more tedious than Jonathan Wilson's "Inverting the Pyramid" but I guess that means I'm not down with the kids, right?

I really enjoy Wlison, and tactical analysis, but it's not a topic that lends itself to conversation IMO. It's quite a subtle thing, and lectures which are opinion delivered as fact are really annoying.

 

[gasmanc]

Just had a rousing reference off Ballague on SSN, claims everything that we saw from Barcelona in the last ten years was from the structure he set up, he said the same of Bayern structure too. Hmmm I've been hearing this a lot.

 

[Bazi]

@RedSky At Night

Dortmund didn't win the double in van Gaal's second season. Schalke won the DFB cup.

 

[RedSky]

@RedSky At Night

Dortmund didn't win the double in van Gaal's second season. Schalke won the DFB cup.

No I meant Dortmund did the double over Bayern, i.e. beat them twice.

 

[Gio]

Does anyone else find in depth discussion of footballing tactics exruciatingly dull?

Not dissing the thread. The OP looks interesting. I even read most of it. Started losing the will to live at the "8 lines" bit (complete with diagram) and stopped reading shortly after. I tried, though, I really tried.

Maybe it's a "football hipster" thing? I can't imagine anything more tedious than Jonathan Wilson's "Inverting the Pyramid" but I guess that means I'm not down with the kids, right?

I quite enjoy it, but Moses is right - it's too nerdy for conversation. What I don't like is when someone invents tactical nuances that do not exist - Wilson and a few self-indulgent managers / bloggers have been guilty of that in the past.