Did you actually see VDB under ETH at Ajax at all?
Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch
- Thread starter VanDeBank
- Start date
I quite like Fred, but basically it's not like Pep has never signed players that didn't work out. He's actually signed plenty of players that weren't successful, like pretty much every manager. He's also made lots of great signings and has always had lots of money too
Of course Pep has signed plenty of underwhelming players but I think you’re missing his point. What I believe @gerdm07 was saying is Pep doesn’t continue to play his poor signings with the forlorn hope that they will suddenly improve. At City, the bad players are either moved on, or left out of starting lineups and replaced. At Utd, we persevere and persevere with the same rubbbish players season after season.
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Guardiola implements a clear and concise way to play the game in a imposing manner on the front foot. And that proactive/attacking style of play, filters out the weak players. He doesn't have players in his team who are limited on the ball, especially in midfield.
Agreed.
Guardiola implements a clear and concise way to play the game in a imposing manner on the front foot. And that proactive/attacking style of play, filters out the weak players. He doesn't have players in his team who are limited on the ball, especially in midfield.
I'm glad we agree mate.
We're not going to come close to winning the title with McFred as a two. Hannibal may or may not be ready, but he at the very least is of the correct profile of player who has the attributes to develop into a player with the craft and guile in midfield that we need in the mid to long term. This is the type of player along with Jimmy Garner who i'm sure the club will be pushing for. Because both players promote a technical game on the ball, whilst not sacrificing the intensity off the ball. And then if we add a Tchouameni or Rice to the mix, then we'll start to develop a identity again.
Agree mate. Glad we’re on the same page particularly when it comes to evaluating players with stats like GA that imo has clouded a lot of people judgement.
Closest example I can think of to Fred at City is Gundogan… I think Fred at City would have done well, he’s done well since Rangnick has arrived. So clear style of play and his role has a influence.
While not all of Peps signings work out, it’s clear that many of City’s successful players would appear rubbish at a United, eg Rodri at United would probably look like a flop.
As promised, the poor passes by McT and Fred during MC vs United
46' McT poor pass
49' McT poor pass
58' Fred poor pass
64' McT poor touch dispossessed
80' Fred poor pass
Fred actually played decent in the 1st half as he did the job he was assigned. In each of the above instances we lost possession. On paper it doesn't look too bad, however, you have to realize that both players didn't get many touches when compared to usual matches. If we extrapolate, then in a normal match they would have had about 10 bad plays between them losing possession. You just can't have a good team with a midfield like that. Against MC with Everton, Donny had 2 poor passes and he had probably had as many touches as McT and Fred combined in his 60 minutes. One match doesn't prove anything, but it means something.
Fred also got bypassed comfortably several times in the second half, which is just not good enough in a team that is setup in a low/mid block.
Shall we just see how Donny gets on at Everton. It’s impossible to compare his performances in an Everton shirt with others in a Utd shirt as it’s completely different. No different than watching Lingard play well in a West Ham shirt.
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They're getting smashed. I only saw the first half, Donny didn't look culpable at all for the 3 goals, but a class midfielder would maybe have stopped the pass leading to the 3rd goal.
He looks like a decent to good player for Everton. I hope he gets into the Holland squad eventually. He's unlikely to make it for the international break in March as he's not in LVG's preliminary squad.
He looks like a decent to good player for Everton. I hope he gets into the Holland squad eventually. He's unlikely to make it for the international break in March as he's not in LVG's preliminary squad.
Just been tugged.
Y'know what, I think we should build our midfield around him. He's so good.
Finally some good news for him.
He is an average PL midfielder with no outstanding attributes. Now you can argue that those could have made him useful to Utd given the competition but if the argument he is some special player who was being mis-used that would be delusional.
Yep, bang average. And this Everton team are dire and he is not standing out at all.
No, No, he's great guys. He really is.
He is so limited as a creative option. Probably the best part of his game is making runs into the box, finding clever positions, deep he poses no threat of any kind, don't have to press him cause he will never hurt you with his passing and generally will take the easy option. Get him near the box in a dominant team and he might get a few goals but he is just lacking too much out of that type of system.
he's fecking shite isn't he? No wonder Madrid pulled the plugThe one thing I thought when this loan happened was it'd be a genuine test of VDB because I don't see how Everton suits him. It suits us because we get to see him in trying circumstances and make a judgment.
But they're a club that's always been about high intensity, fairly direct football, usually with wingplay. That's kind of what the fans anticipate. They've got a big lump in Calvert-Lewin that plays to that kind of strength.
They've hardly had any possession in the games he's been there. So aside from being an average side, he's not really going to see a lot of the ball unless he's so good that he gets a grip of things himself.
But they're a club that's always been about high intensity, fairly direct football, usually with wingplay. That's kind of what the fans anticipate. They've got a big lump in Calvert-Lewin that plays to that kind of strength.
They've hardly had any possession in the games he's been there. So aside from being an average side, he's not really going to see a lot of the ball unless he's so good that he gets a grip of things himself.
Isn’t he back up to former Everton legend Davy Klaasen?
And still the excuses will be made for him.
We'll struggle to get rid in summer.
Like Blind, he'll probably go back to Ajax.
I'd take a swap.
VDB was always favoured when he was actually playing games. So no, but you know this already.
Always thought the Klaassen comparison was lazy. VDB clearly has more technical ability than Klaassen. And it's no surprise VDB is actually starting for Everton.
Then again, Klaassen learnt how to defend during his relegation battle in Germany. Maybe he'd fare better at Everton now.
Blind is a better footballer than VDB.
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In the blue of Everton he looks pretty much the same as Davy Klassen. Might still get 15/20m if we look to sell in the summer.
Only watched first half and few mins in 2nd half and he didn't do much apart from one touch passing, I do remember he played a decent cross and long pass and also got 2 wrong decision from the referee but nothing else much. However, Everton players were so bad anyway apart from Gordon. He wasn't even regular starter at Netherlands national team before he came here. So only Ten Hag can make him looks good, and if Ten Hag can't save Donny's United career then no manager can and fair to call him average and flop signing after that.
Very average player anyway you spin this.
Apparently Frank knew exactly how to have him playing like a champion.
Apparently Frank knew exactly how to have him playing like a champion.
I’m beginning to think that Solskjaer might have had a better idea about this than we did, considering he watched him in training every day.
No doubt.
I loved the first season with him at DM, still miffed as to why we moved him from there, thought he was class.
That's what it's always been for me. Just an option that could have been at times considering the situation.
People have to remember Carrick was also part of those sessions, there’s no doubt he was crap in training and likely constantly outshone and bullied by Fred, Matic and McTom. There’s no other reason for it, confirmed for me when RR instantly started doing the same.
Shame he didn't have that same idea prior to blowing £35m on him
Clear this one was a signing by the recruitment team, one that Ole trusted them on and decided not to veto.
Obviously Ole and Carrick got a real shock when he turned up and started training.
He just needs a good manager lads, honestly...
That's the worrying part. It was obvious at Ajax he was naff, but we still spent so much on him. I wouldn't have had him for free.
What makes you say that? How do you know which signings Ole pushed for and which were foisted on him?
I don’t think any player was foisted on him, it’s been made clear by the club they give a manager a veto so this doesn’t occur.
Quite clear Fred on Mourinho and DvB on Ole were two that came more from the recruitment team.
Now Bruno or AWB may have been exactly the same and not “Ole signings” as such (unlike Mourinho where it was crystal clear Zlatan, Matic were his), who knows, but what we can be sure of is that unlike DvB they turned up at training and impressed.
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