I’ve read quiet a few nurses have come out and said covid is not as bad as they have us believe and that hospitals are empty etc. There’s a well known nurse in the UK who left her profession and speaks at anti vax marches etc. These are the types of things that have created a lot of fear mongering and it will be the downfall.
Vaccination of Squad
- Thread starter westmeath
- Start date
I have two family members that are A&E nurses a friend who is a Nurse assortment working in A&E and his wife s a Dr. They will tell you a different story
Do you believe those nurses? Or do you want to ask me? I am a pulmonary and critical care doctor in USA.
Beyond sad.
Mods, why is this in the United forum?
Should be in the general or something right?
Should be in the general or something right?
Cool story. I’m just call up my friend who is working a pediatric rotation at let him know that the kid he lost this week didn’t happen. It will hopefully let him sleep now. I’ll also call up my brother in law who lost 3 30 year olds last week at let him know he is imagining it.
I just want to clarify something. You say 'within the law', does that mean that you're perfectly happy with vaccine mandates? They would, of course, by definition be within the law.
It's in the United forum because the are quite a number of United players who are
The amount of disruption they will cause this season should be cause for docking their pay due to their lack of knowledge or ignorance. It will for sure jeopardise our chances to compete for silverware this season.
Democracy, law and the likes are completely hollow shells that we have to interprete for ourselves. Mandatory vaccines can obviously be implemented by law in a democracy. Many countries already have one for other vaccines but covid. Not necessarily a direct one, but indirect ones such as in germany where you can't go to a kindergarten without being vaccinated against measles. This is the law within a democracy. It's not about absolute right or wrongs or such categories, it's what the majority of people want and how bendable the legal system is. And basically every legal system is completely obsolete once people stop believing it. Belief is what holds law together.
And no, in no country I know of do we have an absolute freedom to live how we want. There's always restrictions in almost every aspect of our daily lives in form of laws that hinder us to do stuff. Even stuff that's only (or mostly) dangerous for ourselves such as mandatory seatbelts, mandatory helmets and loooots of other things.
In other words, if the majority is PRO mandatory vaccination, it will be done in the end, one way or another. I personally would like to offer unvaccinated people money and if the necessary quota is met live without mandatory vaccination. But if global health is at stake, I don't have any problem to value the health of billions over the personal freedom of few uneducated irrational idiots.
Edit:
to stay a little bit more on-topic I think it would be great if football players are vaccinated en masse so that people see that those high performers whose whole capital is their body trust the vaccines. So I'm all for squad vaccination. Don't actually think it's that important from the club's perspective, but it's a factor as well.
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Maybe you should listen to that nurses son who says she is a nut job that is hungry for fame.
My sister is a nurse who has seen too many people die that should not have done so but they were too stupid to believe what 99% of experts keep telling them to believe.
When you look at amount of people and experts singing from the same sheet then decide to believe what the likes of Right Said Fred , Ian Brown and other clearly mentally unhinged people tell you instead its hard to have sympathy for you should bad things happen.
I'm fed up reading family members saying that they wish their loved ones had taken the vaccine and believed the experts instead of the loons who told them they were safe from covid
Aren't you all agreeing here? I might be wrong, but I read @Will Singh's post as following up on @WI_Red's preceding post about loss of trust in science being a huge problem for society. As @Will Singh points out, it's a fact that some nurses and doctors, and even the rare research specialist, are COVID-19 deniers (in one way or another), and it's true that that's really not helping the global vaccination effort.
Guys, I don't think @Will Singh actually agrees with the nurse he's talking about. Seems to be misunderstood?
If you report posts, posters receive quality control warnings very quickly. As far as I've seen, everyone who spouted COVID-19 or vaccine lies in this thread is currently serving a temp or permanent ban as a result of that. (No need to remove the posts, I think; they all receive very strong rebuttals, and the discussion is useful.)
Thats why I asked him if he believes that nurse.
apologies @Will Singh if @Cheimoon is correct.
edit: I think I might be done with COVID discussions for at least a while. The current battle over vaccinations is the most disheartening event I think I have ever experienced. I devoted a decade of my life, and friends/family have devoted their entire lives, in the pursuit of fighting some of the worst and deadliest diseases we have encountered as a species. To see that effort and experience ignored in the service of political ideology and gain has hit me harder then I think I could ever have imagined. Listening to my loved ones sob after a shift in a COVID ward is heartbreaking, and hearing them lose hope this past month is heart shattering. Vaccines work. Science works. Neither is perfect, and there will be errors along the way, but in the end our best hope against disease is the scientists who pursue answers and the treatments they devise.
To those of you who are anti-vax or vaccine hesitant I plead with you to get vaccinated. If you do not I pray that you remain free of infection or asymptomatic.
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Not here in Australia. Full approval.
Prior to any vaccine development that might be a hope but we didn't expect it ever. Like most vaccines covid vaccines are not sterilising. Nice if they are but not neccesary to control a virus - justvhelpful. And effectiveness is very high and all the data suggests many infections are totally prevented.
It is conclusive that the vaccines prevent the majority of infections and hugely reduce symptoms when they don't, barring a very small percentage with compromised immune systems and the like. And when the mRNA vaccine get a tweak to deal better with Delta it will be better still.
They are in no way an unknown quantity. They underwent exactly the same safety trials as every other vaccine. Long term trials aren't important for vaccines (and in effect we are in a long term trial as we always are with vaccines - nothing as they are not drugs so any side effects emerge soon after they are administered. Issues like clotting with AZ are not long term issues but rather just incredibly rare so can only be found with full release of a vaccine because no trail can involve tens of millions of people or more (which is what would be required to find the AZ clotting issue). The reassurance is that any side effect not found by trials is almost certainly incredibly rare. In the case of AZ the clotting risk is comparable with the risk of getting struck by lightening in one year so currently in my case 57/2 = 28.5 times less likely than getting struck by lightening.
@Will Singh can of course clarify, but no, I don't think we all agree here.
On the general question of vaccines, even though no one as far as I know has advocated for jail time Will here wants to be clear that people have the right to be anti-vaxxers:
Willie is eager to point out the share of vaccinated people that are hospitalized, in response to someone advocating for vaccinations:
Democracy is dead:
I'm not talking about agreeing on everything in general, I was talking about his specific post about nurses saying nonsense about COVID-19. I think people misunderstood that one. Since you are reading this thread, you will have noticed that I was part of the discussion of the rest.
When someone makes health decisions for other people e.g. children and vaccine refusal, based on their religion then there should be exceptions written into law. Vaccine refusal should be like taxes. You can't avoid them just because you claim that your god is against them.
Physically force? No.
But if you want to participate in society there are certain things you need to comply with and that includes not harming others by your health choices. If that restricts your ability to travel or go to concerts or whatever then tough luck. Others shouldn't be harmed by your religious choices over something as uncontroversial as vaccination. If you people were just taking a personal risk, as an adult, then I'd be happy for them to try for a Darwin Award as long as they were taxed extra to account for their choice to burden the health system (just as we tax alcohol and tobacco). But they are actually risking me, my kids and my parents/grandparents lives while wasting huge numbers of my tax dollar.
As is accuracy.
Right. To reel myself in, I think Will agrees 100 % with these nurses and may even be making them up (though that's not needed, they do exist), because the point is to spread anti-vaccine stuff. You're right, though.
In a freak coincidence I was listening to a really, really old episode of the BBC programme In Our Time today that happened to be about immunisation. This one, I believe. They talked about a lot of things: science, history, etc., but one thing they kept coming back to was the importance of the people in the field. No matter what the government or the medical people in charge decided or believed, without the support of the people actually cutting into people they couldn't do much. I think that's quite different from today's world.
There are some minority hardliners who flatly rejects vaccine because it used pig proteins in the process.
The majority of muslim leaders already dismissed this on the basis of 2 things
- The final product, the vaccine itself doesn't contains any trace of pig
- In the emergency situations, it is permitted to consume anything that is considered haram
Ello, I have firsthand experience that you are talking complete and total horseshit. Just thought you should know.
We only have about 2-300 cases (total, not hospitalised) a day and we already have regular medical procedures being cancelled due to the load on the health services. I don't know how or why but .............
More like fired. Covid isn't that bad, it's just the entire whole overreacting, it's not like millions have been infected and loads of people died from it. Nah, it's just the government trying to bluff everyone to take a vaccine
Wonder if they had people denying the plauge during the black death. Probably always a proportion of people that think they know better.
Wow, some of the posts in this thread, I wish the virus' design was to only take out people who didn't take it seriously and who spread lies about vaccination, instead of people like my father.
Shame there's no "Like" button.Well according to some of my friends, they were my school friends and I'm not proud to know them as friends. They don't believe the vaccine because they believe in something else. They believe that this is just a huge scheme designed to make the rich like Bill Gates to be richer and vaccine is the way to transport money from people, industries and governments to a few ultra rich people to make them richer. Again, Bill Gates included.
And that's not only the limit. The dumber ones then start to make things up even further like covid has never actually existed and the diseases that people talked about are actually flu, sore throat or others that have existed for decades and that the people who died from covid actually died from other terminal diseases but still marked as died because of covid. So by the end of the day they believe in something else, that's why they don't believe in vaccine. Conspiracy theorists are the worst people to convince.
About the effect of vaccine itself, I have seen members of my family and friends that got infected by it months after they got their 2nd shot and they are all now doing well. Most only experienced mild symptoms and the few who had a comorbid successfully recovered. No death which is why I'm very thankful of the vaccine. It works and everyone should take it. If they don't want to, make them pay 500% more taxes or something. We're all in this together and by not taking free vaccination they put others, including themselves at risks
I find it odd that the club hasn't had this chat ages ago. Surely considering the players are flying all over the place for matches, the club should have been trying to get them vaccinated straight away.
The Pope has said on more than one occasion that Catholics should have the vaccine. He was very clear right from the beginning. He's had the vaccine. Those Catholics you know must think they know better about the religion than the Pope!
Democracy doesn't enter into it. Doing things that harm yourself and also poses a great risk to those around you and to society at large, for reasons that are fundamentally based on ignorance, has nothing to do with individual rights. A proper analogy here would be driving without ensuring your kids have their seat belt on, or driving while under the influence. You can be as convinced as you like about the uselessness of seatbelts or how you're a better driver after a few glasses (which would actually be no more uninformed than thinking that not taking the vaccine is a good and responsible choice), but that doesn't give you the right to endanger people around you. There is no democratic principle that does.
The way around it (for footballers and everyone else) is to exclude every single person who refuses the vaccine from public spaces and gatherings. It's still their choice, but if they can't go to any bars, restaurants, theatres, museums, sporting events, concerts etc etc they'll have to put up with it.
It's a public health issue, not an individual freedom issue.
It's a public health issue, not an individual freedom issue.
Thing is though, Would this be a passport that is given as soon as you’re double jabbed? Would the passport expire if you didn’t get the boosters as doesn’t the vax weaken or expire and who decides how long the passport lasts before you need a booster. What if your passport for your specific vax only covers certain strains of Covid but not new variants, passport could be cut short.
passports sound a good idea for this year but 2-3 years down the line it could be a mess
In Italy you get a passport after jab 1 that lasts until jab 2, then you get a second one which shows both doses. It was quite easy to sort out, even for me who isn't great with the language. As soon as they start with the boosters I expect there will be another passport to download - the current one lasts for 9 months from the date of the second jab.
It's the best they can do with the tools we have available right now. No doubt it'll be constantly tweaked, but as long as it's easy to get hold of your vaccination passport it should't be a problem. People without smartphones or computers can ask a pharmacy to print off their paper certificate, so no-one misses out.
I'm sure other countries have a similar system.
Thank you, yes I was replying to @WI_Red regarding a nurse in he’s family who believes Facebook propaganda. I just pointed out there’s a few here in the UK that also deny Covid and then that nurse who does speeches on stages at anti Vax martch’s etc.
I want to make it clear I am pro vax but I believe no one should be forced into taking it.
They couldn't have had this version of the chat before the players actually became eligible (on the basis of age) to get vaccinated in the UK - which was June for most of them. Which basically means that most of them went on holiday or to the Euros etc this summer unvaccinated, because they weren't eligible.
Whether United already had preliminary chats with them I don't know. I suspect they did, but it won't have been until they came back from their summer break vaxxed/half-vaxxed/unvaxxed that they could start taking to individuals.
That shows you don’t know much about Anti Vaxxers then as they are quoting these nurses and doctors. Why would I make that up?
Thanks for the info, as much as I’d feel safer sitting around people and going to events I know everyone has been double vacced, I can’t help but have the nagging feeling of not being all that keen to be getting one or two boosters a year to have a passport to let me into a shop to buy food or a beer.
I guess it’s the world we now live in, which is a massive shame. I’m also dreading it when it’s time to have children vaccinated and when mine have to go through it.