As an employer, a 'no jab, no job' policy does indeed open you to potential discrimination claims on the basis of disability, or religious/philosophical belief.
You do have to be very careful.
You do have to be very careful.
Vaccination of Squad
- Thread starter westmeath
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Sounds like there's mandatory testing for all clubs, the fact that there still is and probably will be, heath protocols for the foreseeable future.
Plus waning immunity has never been an argument against the annual flu shot.
Exactly.
Best case scenario: Covid just goes away never to bother us again.
Second best scenario: we get the mutations under control by tweaking the vaccine - and offering it to people on a large scale.
ETA Regularly, that is - like I said above, for feck knows how long. But it's very likely that we have to live with this kind of thing in the future - rather than it magically just going away.
That's pretty much the opposite of what's actually happened. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ve-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant
The worry a few months ago was that they were going to be nowhere near as effective as they have proven to be.
That's a sweeping generalisation based on your sample of seven.
No.
I said that I know lots of people who haven't had it.
I used an example of the people I was with the other day as a basis of only 1 in 7 had taken up the jab.
My mistake, you've clearly undertaken a detailed analysis of vaccine take-up among different ethnic groupings, of which your anecdote about some black colleagues was merely a footnote.
As an obvious man of science with an unswerving dedication to thorough research, you weren't just spouting a lazy stereotype.
If only our authorities shared your zeal we'd beat this bug in no time!
I'm sorry but the uptake within BAME groups has been reported as fact as being low, especially in certain areas.
It isn't difficult to read the study's and reports which are freely available.
The real question, is why is this the case?
It's just ridiculous that something that has scientific proof and has been proved worked for a long long time, to be dismissed like this. I found it amusing when anybody said "I don't believe in covid". This isn't a religion FFS
True. But at least flat earthers don't put anybody in immediate danger
In the US it has deep historical roots, including one of the worst things my government has ever done: Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Wikipedia
There's a large role for a long history of systemic racism and other issues leading to mistrust of anything official, and especially state institutions and recommendations.
Edit: good example by @WI_Red.
Have to call out this racial stereotyping for what it is. Not acceptable here or anywhere.
“Certain areas” - what the hell does that mean?
Interesting thing is, delta (and any other newer variants) probably don't even spread if vaccination happened at a greater pace with more coverage.
Considering how much money is tied to every single of these footballers, I'm surprised the club wasn't firm over the summer to get them vaccinated.
The cricket contingent is fully vaccinated and that seems to be the case for every International country. Why are footballer being treated differently?
The cricket contingent is fully vaccinated and that seems to be the case for every International country. Why are footballer being treated differently?
Yes you do. If someone else thinks it's right for them to smoke in a bar, they can be told due to legislation that they're wrong and should get rid of the cigarette or leave. You also can't drink & drive, no matter what you think.
All the vaccines have been shown to decrease (decently) your chance if contracting the virus, decrease (somewhat) how infectious you are when sick, and decrease (very very much) your chance to develop a bad case and require hospitalization. This applies to all variants. So people who refuse to take the vaccine and don't have medical reasons for that are a danger to public health. There's just no disputing that. You can dispute what the consequences for those people should be; but not taking a vaccine is a decision with consequences for everyone around you and hence most definitely deserves discussion and criticism.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say here, but this reads like an argument for a continuous vaccination campaign. That's probably correct. In the future, this will probably be like the flu shot, which you get in autumn to get you safely through the usual outbreak season.
You might want to start checking real science, then. There is a lot of knowledge about infectivity, and how that differs from one variant to another. Also, I'm not sure what marketing campaign you are talking about, as much of the data and research comes from sources unrelated to the vaccine companies. Finally, what trial do you mean, and how does that relate to the subject at hand?
I don’t know why in particular this thread has brought them out when we have 2 covid threads going for more than a year
Considering Lingards home commitments I’d be surprised if he’s not vaccinated
It's not stereotyping.
The media have repeatedly used this terminology in reporting this news.
It's not every area, but certain areas, where as people above have said, a large level of mistrust and other reasons historically exist.
There are individuals seperate to that, who believe that taking the vaccinations is a way for governments to track people and there are also people who believe the vaccinations are designed to harm certain people or races.
The point being, if the BAME groups are more at risk of dying or being seriously ill from Covid, then why are they one of the slowest uptakers in the vaccination.
It's basically illogical from a medical point of view.
I have a number of Asian friends who won't touch the vaccine because they are convinced they are being injected with some kind of 5G tech.
It's illogical, makes no sense, they are at risk and yet refuse to protect themselves due to paranoia.
As an employer you’re skating on thin ice to even keep a record of who is/isn’t vaccinated. GDPR legislation makes this whole thing a complete nightmare for employers.
Having the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, it just reduces the risk of serious illness and death. Technically you can also pass it to others also.
Pieter Borger is also a creationist. That automatically qualifies him as a dipshit.
Lots of football posters appear to never read or get involved in the non-football discussions; and certainly newbie posters can't go there.
Yes. But it makes you much less likely to pass it on to anyone else than you would be without a vaccine. Which is one of the main reasons to get vaccinated.
You used the term "BAME groups" - which refers to ethnicity (in the UK).
Ethnicity has feck all to do with it.
Are certain statistical/demographic categories (defined however you like - but never based on ethnicity) more or less likely to take the vaccine? Undoubtedly - and that should not be dismissed. But bringing broad, generic and pointless terms like "BAME" into it serves no purpose.
True. Broadly the least deprived areas of the UK have the highest vaccine uptake (95%+ in the over 50s) and the most deprived the lowest (87%)
But he's right to suggest that there are different take-up rates amongst different groups even after you take the usual other factors - like education, age, access to healthcare into account.
Across the whole country, amongst the over 50s it works out at:
Based on data in:
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...d-19-surveillance-reports-2021-to-2022-season
Uptake among under 30s generally looks like it has flattened out at around 70% with that dropping below 50% in some inner city locations. Men on average are less likely to get vaccinated than women.
How that affects footballers, who've generally had to listen to advice from doctors etc their whole lives, I don't know.
But there are a lot of reasons why people hesitate - sometimes that's bad experience (whether that's their own or their friends/family or historic). Sometimes it's falling down an internet rabbit hole driven by fear of something extremely rare (or even impossible). Sometimes it's a bizarre optimism in the face of something that quite often has bad consequences. I don't think young footballers are immune to any of those things.
Oh yeah I know that, I’m just saying before he gets labelled as an anti vaxxer or something
Unless you are a ship captain or airplane pilot. Or even if you are planning for a vacation and you think the earth is flat. There will be death somewhere.
Late to comment and you might have had a response to this already but...
I'm a heart transplant recipient. I've been double jabbed. There is studies done in Norway fairly recently (that I know at least 1 who was in the study group for as a lung-transplant recipient) where they believe that the lack of antigens is due to very specific immunosuppressive. The national hospital sent out a message with the list of medications to us, I can't remember the names but none of the ones I used were currently on the list. They were going to do more studies on the other immunosuppressive as well.
While some transplant recipients didn't develop antigens after the vaccine, others did. And we've been told that those aren't the only thing to be gained from taking the vaccine, so even if we don't necessarily get antigens we could still get some sort of protection/benefits making the vaccine worth taking. The Norwegian government is or was in debate over if people like myself should get a 3rd jab or not.
Another anecdotal sidenote: Someone mistook me for a 1-jab guy and called me to ask when I wanted my 2nd jab, I told him to let me know when he had the 3rd and he told me it might be around Christmas. But I have a terrible joke-radar so I'm unsure if I should take that seriously or not.
For those wondering my immunosuppressive are prednisone, cellcept and prograf.
PS. might use the wrong words, bit drugged and sleepy so translating from Norwegian to English in my head is going rather slowly.
Also, I appreciate that you are taking the time to write informative posts on here despite your obvious jadedness and frustration of your studies and efforts being overlooked for conspiracy theories and misinformation from 5 minutes of bad googling.
Like most vaccines covid vaccines are not sterilising (100% prevent infection) but they are hugely effective and far more so than other vaccines we routinely rely on to protect us. One jab isn't as protective as full immunisation, which is running at 72% of the adult population, while hospitalisations of fully immunised people (not ICU or ventilated mind) are only 15% of admissions.
Or to put it another way 28% of unvaccinated and partially vaccinated people account for 85% of admissions.
So full vaccination reduces hospitalisations by a factor of 10 - some are asymptomatic or only have minor symptoms but a huge number are protected from infection at all.
If you had the figures to compare fully vaccinated with the totally unvaccinated the differences would be far greater - I believe I've seen figures of just over 30x.
And Pfizer and Modena are also trialing tweaked versions that better protect against Delta which will improve things further.
So the figures you are partially quoting actually disprove your point.
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Thats probably very true, also most of UK got Astra Zeneca and thats going pretty good so far for the population.
Host-Virus Chimeric Events in SARS-CoV-2-Infected Cells Are Infrequent and Artifactual | Journal of Virology (asm.org)
I couldn't find a single sentence that I understood. I knew I was dim, but that was just embarrassing.
Here is a pro tip. Most well written articles have two places you can go to get a good review of what the paper is trying to convey: The abstract and the last paragraph of the discussion.
Here is the sentence that mostly plainly sums up the papers findings (from the last paragraph in the discussion):
To put it plainly: The papers data shows that the widely reported (read scaremongering on Social Media and news sites) of HVC (Host - Virus Chimeric) events are not real and the data suggesting it is likely from errors in the method used to find them.
HVC: Host (you) Virus (COVID) Chimeric Events are where RNA from COVID integrates into your DNA.
Unless they are map makers or navigators.
Well according to some of my friends, they were my school friends and I'm not proud to know them as friends. They don't believe the vaccine because they believe in something else. They believe that this is just a huge scheme designed to make the rich like Bill Gates to be richer and vaccine is the way to transport money from people, industries and governments to a few ultra rich people to make them richer. Again, Bill Gates included.
And that's not only the limit. The dumber ones then start to make things up even further like covid has never actually existed and the diseases that people talked about are actually flu, sore throat or others that have existed for decades and that the people who died from covid actually died from other terminal diseases but still marked as died because of covid. So by the end of the day they believe in something else, that's why they don't believe in vaccine. Conspiracy theorists are the worst people to convince.
About the effect of vaccine itself, I have seen members of my family and friends that got infected by it months after they got their 2nd shot and they are all now doing well. Most only experienced mild symptoms and the few who had a comorbid successfully recovered. No death which is why I'm very thankful of the vaccine. It works and everyone should take it. If they don't want to, make them pay 500% more taxes or something. We're all in this together and by not taking free vaccination they put others, including themselves at risks
Yes. Not every vaccine is perfectly sterilising. In fact the majority are not. The covid vaccines prevent severe disease and reduce the chances of being infected and onward transmission. They’re excellent vaccines and key to getting back to normal. I hope United mandate the vaccine or at least strongly encourage the players to get it. Massively reduces the chance of any of them having their fitness suffer due to catching the actually virus.
Medical exemption is a thing and anyone who can't have it would be able to get a doctor to write something to that effect. As for religion, I'm not aware that any of the world's major religions are anti-vaccination. There is no non-medical reason other than "I don't want to have it", which isn't good enough.
Neil Warnock slams 'selfish' anti-vaccine players
"For whatever reason, the majority of the players don’t have vaccinations. It's wrong. We’ve just got to be so careful because we are mixing with fans now. It’s so easy to spread, especially if you're not [vaccinated].
"I agree totally [that only vaccinated people should be in a football stadium]. I think the fans should get on their websites and demand that the players have them because I can only say so much - managers can only tell them so much."
"For whatever reason, the majority of the players don’t have vaccinations. It's wrong. We’ve just got to be so careful because we are mixing with fans now. It’s so easy to spread, especially if you're not [vaccinated].
"I agree totally [that only vaccinated people should be in a football stadium]. I think the fans should get on their websites and demand that the players have them because I can only say so much - managers can only tell them so much."