If any of you are crying out towards our shit midfield and blaming fergie for not reinforcing it, you have no right to squable about identity crap
Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here
- Thread starter birdy2121
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Our "identity" was a more product of retaining the same manager over a quarter of a century in which English football changed beyond recognition rather than anything inherent to United. Now Fergie has gone, we are finally adapting to the current football environment after a disastrous 9 month experiment in pretending we were substantively different even without our veteran manager. As for the recent spending spree, we have usually been the biggest spenders for as long as I have been following United - the final years of the Fergie era were the exception rather than the rule. So I see the current situation as the return to the real United - a top manager with a well-defined vision using a team of expensive, high quality acquisitions complemented, to the extent possible, with younger players who have come through the system.
Just looks like the squad built for Fergie's style doesn't suit a coach like LVG. It was a squad build around wingers and moving the ball quickly out of midfield. We also failed to replace our midfield and it was clearly fergie's biggest short coming. We needed to spend quick for a quick fix as the squad was aging rapidly.
We can now look to buiding a new young team in LVGs mould since most of the players in SAFs mould have moved on. Hopefully LVG is committed to doing so
We can now look to buiding a new young team in LVGs mould since most of the players in SAFs mould have moved on. Hopefully LVG is committed to doing so
Broken identity...
Finishing today with Paddy McNair, Tyler Blackett and James Wilson on the pitch. Credit to to LVG, would Jose or Manuel put youngsters on with 10/15mins to go with the game on a knife edge? (I accept that with injuries etc we have no choice at the moment but Louis strikes me as someone who'd do it even with a fully fit squad).
Broken identity indeed and all that.
Broken identity indeed and all that.
It's a miracle for Jose and Pellegrini to have more than one English player on the field at any time let alone an academy player.
Oli Holt embarrassed himself today on this topic.
What did he say?
Oliver Holt embarrasses himself every day. What did he say this time?
He was tweeted about the academy players in the united side. He responded by saying they wouldn't get a game if everybody is fit.
There was a tweet in match thread, about "identity", but when someone called him on it with the names of Blackett, Wilson and McNair, he was going "hah, nice try, they are not first team".
@Mrs Smoker @Mitchell Nicholas Thanks both. Its amazing he claims to have been a United fan as a kid. His City bias level is off the chart.
He might have a point, but another manager might have put fletcher at centre back instead having the bravery to put a young player in the starting side.
Ridiculous, so LvG gives the players a chance to prove themselves and Holt has a go because if everyone was fit they wouldnt start? But how does he know? Both Blackett and McNair havent looked out of place in the games we've played so far. And how many top clubs give their youth a chance when everyone is fit? Hell most in similar circumstances would play experienced midfielders back there then give kids a chance...
Either way going by his logic i don't understand why he kicked off such a stink over selling Welbeck - he wasn't a first team starter either so it shouldnt have mattered..
Broken identity indeed.
We're playing more youngsters then I ever remember.
You could say Holt has lost his identity.
Maybe it's not through choice but having McMair, Blackett and Wilson on the pitch together during a tough league match with Everton feels like the club keeping its identity to me. Just needed a bit more Januzaj.
We stopped giving youngsters a fair chance under Fergie's latter years...think LVG will actually do wonders for our identity i.e. the United way of promoting youngsters. McNair, Blackett, Wilson...Lingard in the first game..missing anyone else?
Thorpe, James.
Januzaj and Wilson maybe will be the test of this when everyone is actually fit.
LVG has impressed me immensely.. managing to get results as well as showing huge faith in the kids. Can't think of many who'd demonstrate the same faith in the young blood he has.
The past 3 months have made me hate the words prepare, monitor, and identity.
He's been bit forced due to injuries, suspensions, late arrivals after WC and late signings tbf.
Where he hasn't been forced by injuries Januzaj has been frozen out tbf.
It's bit positive and bit negative for me but remains to be tested fully.
At this rate, van Gaal will end up being the greatest champion of youth players in United history.
Blackett, Januzaj, Lingard, Thorpe, Wilson and McNair all getting game time under our new manager.
Not to mention Shaw would have counted as a "Babe" in the Busby days, those guys weren't with the club since 9 or anything.
Blackett, Januzaj, Lingard, Thorpe, Wilson and McNair all getting game time under our new manager.
Not to mention Shaw would have counted as a "Babe" in the Busby days, those guys weren't with the club since 9 or anything.
Regardless, some of the changes are not strictly necessary i.e. Moyes would keep Falcao/Di Maria on and take that risk rather than put in some of the younger lads.. Januzaj was an exception. He has frozen Januzaj out for his own good and either doesn't rate him or is trying to make him a stronger player by testing his character - that isn't down to the fact Januzaj is younger.
The problem with Januzaj is that it's not clear what position he fits in our diamond system. I think that's the only reason we aren't seeing more of him. I mean at the moment he's probably the cover for our best player Di Maria, so he isn't going to see much time there. In the CAM role there is Rooney and Mata as competition.
Not to be that guy a lot of the blooding youngsters this season is because we are now currently having our second insane defensive injury crisis. If Jones, Smalling and Evans were ever fit McNair and Blackett would be getting a lot less time this season.
Have to admit it was a bit weird to see pretty much whole team of foreign players start today. Still struggling slightly with the whole big spend thing but then I am a pretty stubborn person who isn't so good with change! Absolutely delighted though to have seen some of the young guys make inroads and an impression on the first team. The boys have been impressive and hope that they fully take all the chances they get. Some amount of pressure and due to injury crisis they've really had to step up.
There is nothing better than having a team featuring players the club has honed and developed. Love that. Even if seeing them and their birth years makes you feel really old!
There is nothing better than having a team featuring players the club has honed and developed. Love that. Even if seeing them and their birth years makes you feel really old!
When we had defenders out in Fergie's last years, we played midfielders in defence instead of turning to our academy though.
Shaw wouldn't have counted as a 'Busby Babe'…he was bought for a record transfer fee like Tommy Taylor.
I guess on balance we'd rather see a blend of international superstars and home-grown talent than a load of middle-of-the-road dross signed from Aston Villa and Wigan (you know who you are
)J. Burt is either a crap researcher or an idiot!
We have had plenty of juniors in our teams over the years.
Here are some stats of average number of youth players in squad per season:
NOTE: Only 11 in squad up to 1965/66 when one substitute was introduced and up to 1987/88.
1946/47 - 4.25 BUSBY
1947/48 - 5.63
1948/49 - 4.65
1949/50 - 4.15
1950/51 - 4.82
1951/52 - 4.67
1952/53 - 6.02
1953/54 - 5.77
1954/55 - 6.62
1955/56 - 7.70
1956/57 - 8.18
1957/58 - 7.54
1958/59 - 7.37
1959/60 - 8.22
1960/61 - 7.75
1961/62 - 7.45
1962/63 - 5.48
1963/64 - 4.96
1964/65 - 5.22
1965/66 - 5.97
1966/67 - 7.25
1967/68 - 8.30
1968/69 - 8.59
1969/70 - 7.71 McGUINNESS
1970/71 - 8.49
1971/72 - 8.12 O'FARRELL
1972/73 - 5.12
1973/74 - 4.22 DOCHERTY
1974/75 - 3.24
1975/76 - 3.12
1976/77 - 4.12
1977/78 - 4.02 SEXTON
1978/79 - 4.19
1979/80 - 3.09
1980/81 - 3.88
1981/82 - 2.71 ATKINSON
1982/83 - 3.23
1983/84 - 3.88
1984/85 - 4.60
1985/86 - 4.38
1986/87 - 3.25
1987/88 - 3.71 FERGUSON
1988/89 - 4.90
1989/90 - 4.29
1990/91 - 3.77
1991/92 - 3.29
1992/93 - 3.52
1993/94 - 2.43
1994/95 - 5.58
1995/96 - 5.86
1996/97 - 5.33
1997/98 - 7.00
1998/99 - 6.19
1999/00 - 6.98
2000/01 - 7.63
2001/02 - 6.90
2002/03 - 7.97
2003/04 - 6.82
2003/04 - 5.89
2004/05 - 6.59
2005/06 - 5.93
2006/07 - 5.25
2007/08 - 6.48
2008/09 - 6.14
2009/10 - 5.12
2010/11 - 4.96
2011/12 - 4.89
2012/13 - 4.81
2013/14 - 4.20 MOYES
So you can see that in the pre 1970's when there were no substitutes our team was made up of 75% of youth players.
It dropped off after Docherty went on a spending spree and worst under Atkinson.
It took a while for Fergie to redevelop the youth system but saying the 'Class of 1992' was a one of is so far from the mark it makes you wonder who does the research for these newspapers. Clearly we have bought big names but never at the expense of developing youth.
Interestingly the last few seasons under Ferguson the average started to drop as he clearly took his eyes off the ball…playing experienced players out of position rather than elevating from the ranks.
We have had 431 players turn out for the first team since 1946 and 51% of those have been youth players.
Up to last week we have played 3,708 consecutive competitive first team games with at least one youth player in the squad.
In the first four games this season the squad total was 7, 8, 11, and 8.
Let's not let facts get in the way of a 'good' story hey?
I don't buy that he's only giving the youngsters a chance because of injuries. He's done it his whole career, he has a massive reputation for it and I think it's something that is very important to him. He could have played it safe and played Fletcher or Blind at the back but he's taken the risk and trusted in youth. Yes he's let Cleverley and Welbeck go but he's still determined to continue to bring young players through. Hopefully a few will establish themselves for years to come.
Interesting, thanks for posting.
You should tweet that post to him and see what he comes back with.
Have squad sizes remained the same?
Would be interested in average number of appearances youth players per season, normalized to a 38 match season.
Good to see the young lads been given a go, even if it is late on in games to disrupt the opposition.
I'm just glad De Gea bailed us out or LVG would be getting slated for bringing on kids.
I'm just glad De Gea bailed us out or LVG would be getting slated for bringing on kids.
Not sure why people are slating Holt's opinion, he has a point, the youngsters wouldn't be getting games if everyone as fit, as proven by Adnan not being able to get in the side due to him playing a position with better, more experienced player. We'll probably never know anyways as the defenders can't stay fit to begin with
all our attackers were fit, wilson didn't need to come on.
Both.
Probably what it boils down to.
I get the feeling that journalists aren't journalists anymore, paid to research their stories particularly in the world of sports writing judging by the amount of crap we see from them.