I know, why?
Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here
- Thread starter birdy2121
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Couldn't give two fecks what Phelan thinks. He completely fails to acknowledge the serious underinvestment in SAFs last few years thats left us in this position and also the fact that Blackett has been given his chance and Wilson looks likely to get a shot too. LVG has a proven commitment to youth but at the moment we have a crisis to buy our way out of.
Ironic that ex employees take potshots now. Bitter.
Ironic that ex employees take potshots now. Bitter.
Where are all those on here that was slating Citeh and renties . Guess it was just jealousy and a longing to be like them.
I remember people slating City and Chelsea, but not Madrid (well not in the same vein. The disdain for Madrid was because they let go of really excellent players in favor of the flavor of the month). The reason was because City and Chelsea didn't earn what they spent. So very unlike United/Madrid/Bayern/Barca. Can't believe people are comparing the two situations at all.
Welbeck was supposedly off even before Falcao was in. So, No, Falcao didn't force Welbeck out. RVP and Rooney did. That has nothing to do with LVG.
He is the only player who is probably not a long term plan (mind You, if he has 3 good years, I would still consider it long term). The rest of all signings are young and will be here longer periods, provided they are good.
Phelan is a bitter bald twat......usually it's Jamie Carragher or last year Alan Hansen other ex Liverpool players coming out saying how awful our players are or how awful it is that we are signing big names because obviously they hate it when we sign big names....
Anyways the guy on twitter sums it up......we get blasted from sections of the media for 'selling our soul' because we bought the worlds best striker from Colombia and swapped him for maybe the worlds 50th or 60th best striker who is English......We have 2 English central defenders that the likes of Jamie Carragher and Alan Hansen were saying were dreadful yet when we replace them with outstanding foreign superstars then we are 'selling our soul'
Anyways the guy on twitter sums it up......we get blasted from sections of the media for 'selling our soul' because we bought the worlds best striker from Colombia and swapped him for maybe the worlds 50th or 60th best striker who is English......We have 2 English central defenders that the likes of Jamie Carragher and Alan Hansen were saying were dreadful yet when we replace them with outstanding foreign superstars then we are 'selling our soul'
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Its actually funny. The only names the media have been telling us to buy e.g. Hummels, Vidal are foreign superstars. They haven't recommended us buy one English player all summer. Yet, when we actually go and buy foreign superstars we are losing our identity. There's no consistency to the press criticism of United.
In threads like this there has been a general assumption that the ones making the first argument are the same ones arguing for the inverse.
Our identity lies in our fans and our ground, not the players, the managers or the owners - they are fleeting in the context of the life of the club. We started to "lose our identity" when Martin Edwards took control and started to run the club like a business. Over time the fan base has changed and with it the atmosphere on game days. That's how we've "lost our identity" - we've become Roy Keane's prawn sandwich eaters. I'm not saying that this is good or bad - just recognising it as the (not so) new reality.
Agreed.
Well yeah. This is basically my peice. This is all it's really about, isn't it? Before Monday no one was accusing us of betraying our ethos or identity. In fact everyone seemed absolutely desperate for us to splash out even more money on a defender and midfielder (of the same age as Falcao) and stop having to rely on all the many many youth players Van Gaal has been using. Including the 6 youth players he's given debuts to in the opening 4 games. 3 of whom are from the NW. In addition to his signings of Blind & Rojo, to add to the sanctioned signings of Herrera and Shaw, all of whom are under 25. Which will be a great bedrock in a few years to bring in players from the Academy, which we've just revamped to make sure it plays the same way as the first team to ease transition. So tell me, what exactly is it we're doing again that's beraying our identity of youth and team building?
Oh yeah, we signed one player. For a lot of money. In a position we weren't completely fecked in. A bit like Tevez. Or Veron. Or Berbatov. Or Van Persie. Or Forlan. Or even Van Nistelrooy when we first went for him.
All that's changed is Danny. A player we all loved who was brought up through Fergie's era and is probably the last of his fledgling legacy now the Class of 92 are gone. Anyone with a modicum of care for this club would/should love Danny. But lets not make the loss of one fan favorite into the Sign of the bloody Judgment. The club has no obligation to Danny Welbeck. No obligation to play him where he wants, or to guarantee him a starting place just as it never did with any other youth player down the years, and Danny has no obligation to the club to stick around forever waiting for his chance at an age where he was already an England regular and wanted to play every week. That's the long and the short of it. There's no betrayal. From anyone. Just nostalgia and over emotion trying to latch onto some kind of narrative so it doesn't seem so silly.
It'll pass. Most football clubs have to deal with losing players they like every season.
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Great post
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...turn-round-a-desperate-situation-9681747.html
Which of these were British??.
Which of these were British??.
Not necessarily. See example:
Cracking post. People aren't looking at the whole story.
Well and I miss the time where the fans didnt give a feck about what journos thought and wouldnt make them panic
4 British and 6 home grown players , only thing lost is some of posters rational thinking
I'm sure hundreds of United fans are retweeting that to him. Wonder if he has the balls to reply?
Unlikely.
I sort of feel bad for (some) journos, having had to do a similar thing on a much lower level. They have to fill column inches every week when there's not necessarily anything happening, or that they genuinely feel passionate about writing. Still, it's dumb to contracdict yourself so brazenly, and so quickly.
If Falcao coming in wasn't related to Welbeck leaving, we wouldn't have waited until we'd tied up Falcao to let Welbeck's deal to Arsenal go through.
When you spend as much as we have, bringing in Mata, Di Maria and Falcao all presumably on huge wages, you have to recoup something somehow. That's why Welbeck's gone on a permanent deal and the likes of Anderson, Valencia, Young, etc. are still United players. I don't know how many times people have mentioned this now but Welbeck was apparently willing to stay and fight for a place until Woodward told him the club was looking to sell him.
This is why the club were trying to force Cleverley to Villa on a permanent deal despite his contract winding down.
It's not getting rid of the deadwood, it's recouperating the costs of signing players we didn't really need. That's not good planning.
I mean If we'd ended up with a team that looked really formidable and capable of getting back to the top, then there is the justification. I don't think we have that at all. We've assembled a mess of a squad. There will be world class players rotting on the bench and below average ones forced to play in positions they're not familiar with.
It's like anything else really. Change the style of play, approach to buying players, sell a youth product to a rival etc....it's all stuff that makes people uneasy. If it's done in a way that gives people confidence that it'll get the required result though, and if it gets the required results, then a majority wont care.
Problem is, I was a lot more confident a few weeks ago than I am now. Now I'm just worried.
this loss of identity thing is a bit like the west ham way a myth and utter bollocks
The thing that first made United special was our pioneering entry into Europe with a team of 'Busby Babes', it was Sir Matt Busby's vision that set us apart. But we were no different to any other club, big transfers did not happen in those days so most teams had a lot of home grown players. Ours were just better. Fast forward 50 odd years and we are still like the top clubs in England - we try to develop home grown talent but if they are not good enough we buy foreigners. We have had to keep up with our competitors. Simple as.
Of course they're related, as one replaced the other. It doesn't mean Welbeck left because we were signing Falcao though. Having also lost Chicho, it would've been dumb to let 2 strikers go without making sure we'd got another striker in. If one fell through we would've stopped the other. But that doesn't mean Danny would've been happy playing catch up to Rooney & RVP, he may well have been off in another window, while we tried to find another striker.
How do you know that? Why are you beliveing that particular gossip, but not the othes? It's certainly no more reputable than the Daniel Taylor stuff about Welbeck wanting out. People (including myself) are just believing which ever one fits their preferred narrative. Though considering stories of Welbeck and Chicho contemplating their future were rumbling on for ages, and there was literally nothing about Falcao until the day before, I'm far more inclined to believe Taylor et al. I could be wrong of course.
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We all like Danny personally so it's hard to see him go. He's a hard worker, respects his teammates and never shames his club. But it just wasn't working for him at OT. But it's a vast inflation of reality to take that disappointment and morph it into some kind of identity crisis.
The sale of Beckham and then Ruud were much harder on my psyche as a United supporter than the sale of Welbeck.
This identity crisis trope is just manufactured bullshit by inbred journalists.
The sale of Beckham and then Ruud were much harder on my psyche as a United supporter than the sale of Welbeck.
This identity crisis trope is just manufactured bullshit by inbred journalists.
Exactly.
The Beckham and Ronaldo sales were much much worse to take yet everyone saw them as inevitable it seems - they wanted to go but refuse to believe that Welbeck wanted to go also.
If the United way is trading down (Ronaldo > Valencia) or not replacing players (Keane, Scholes etc etc) then I'm glad we've moved away from it, trading up is the way forward.
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Great post. Just want to add one more thing.
We could have easily forced him to Tottenham or have kept him waiting till we had a bid from a non-rival. We did what was in his best interest, even though it may turn out to affect us in one way or the other in future and even though they played hard ball with us for one of our primary targets. What does that say about the club?. We will do whats best for our outgoing players' interest despite it being against the club's interest.
Yeah. I find it odd when people say how heartbroken they are because they loved Danny, and the club have been crap to him, and then exclaim that they'd rather the club shafted him on a worse deal.
Twitter generation mate !!!...The worst thing to ever happen to football. People cant differentiate who's serious or who's on a WUM....
Not sure why people keep listing all the upcoming youth that have had chances when most of these were necessitated by injury- except for maybe Perreira and a few others in the Carling Cup, but then United have always done that anyways.
When everyone is back fit, let's see how much Blackett or whoever makes it into the team.
When everyone is back fit, let's see how much Blackett or whoever makes it into the team.
Plus most of them played in a cup match against a third division side. Even Chelsea would play youngsters in that situation.
That's why. Because people are acting like some great tradition's been broken. It hasn't. Our next crop might take a while to get into a full strength team, but all the evidence (and I mean ALL the evidence) points to LVG giving them the opportunity.
Journalists a few weeks ago were saying how we've screwed up by only signing shaw and Herrera I.e potential instead of world class players. Now we've brought world class players we should of brought potential? What?
Just replying to the bolded text:
1. Danny Welbeck asked to leave last season when Moyes was in charge. And he was getting game time then. A lasting image of Moyes' time here is of him standing on the touchline and shouting 'Danny' over and over again on numerous occasions.
2. We do, we really do. Due to the staggering clout of the Di Maria and Falcao signings within a week, the signings of Herrera, Blind, Shaw and Rojo are being overlooked/forgotten. We've bought first team starters in every department of the first team squad - 2 defenders, 2 midfielders, 1 AM/winger and 1 striker - all will be first team starters.
3. The style of play has been garbage for years. Negative, cautious and 1 dimensional. Our player's ability on the ball has actually regressed to the point where players coming in, like Mata, have actually sunk to our bloated, leaden, plodding game.
4. Our approach to buying players has given us the defence that you're saying needs strengthening, as well as Young, Valencia, Fellaini...mid-table players all on big wages.
If that was true Pogba might still be with us.
That's not true. We wanted to loan him, he wanted a permanent move.
We were trying to shift Cleverley because he's shit, and gaining some cash for him is better than losing him on a free next year.
Again, utter, utter, nonsense. Falcao, Di Maria, Mata, Rooney, Herrera, Januzaj - not formidable. FFS.
Basically, this is a wreck of a post.
What makes me laugh is Noodle creating threads such as the zombie passing one and criticising the players game after game and then when we finally make fundamental changes which could resolve some of the issues he's all up in arms over it. Either stick or twist was the options this summer and we've done the latter, you can't overhaul an entire first team with youth unless you get lucky like Ferguson did.
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United have been 'just another big club' ever since the conception of the Premier League and becoming a PLC, it would either be that or be in the conference.
We all know that he is only a short term signing. He will be 29 in February. He's 28 now. I can't see that age as a long term.