I agree Phelan is right, but we haven't lose our identity yet. It is just the beginning of the losing it and turn into the Galaticos. We just sold 2 young talent Welbeck and Lawrence because of game time. I wonder who's going to join next. Or LVG will change his mind and decide to put his fully faith on Januzaj, Wilson and other youngsters. Time will tell. Good thing that Falcao is only loan so we might can see Wilson getting enough chance next season.
Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here
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I agree Phelan is right, but we haven't lose our identity yet. It is just the beginning of the losing it and turn into the Galaticos. We just sold 2 young talent Welbeck and Lawrence because of game time. I wonder who's going to join next. Or LVG will change his mind and decide to put his fully faith on Januzaj, Wilson and other youngsters. Time will tell. Good thing that Falcao is only loan so we might can see Wilson getting enough chance next season.
Load of garbage. We sell a youth product and suddenly we lose our identity? LVG is doing exactly what we should have done years ago. We fix our main issues now and once we're winning, we focus on bringing youth players into the team. LVG did that over the years
He's in charge for 3 months - what we need right now is instant success and build up a very good team / get rid of poor players. He WILL work with youth players but give it time FFS. And claiming that we shouldnt sign Falcao so we can play a 19 year old instead is just Wonderland
But winning IS the Manchester United way and encoded in the clubs DNA. Fergie installed that, it's either the trophy or nothing, by settling for 4/5th YOU are going against the traditions of the club. I would hate it if we ended up like Arsenal just meandering along with nothing to show for it.
I think Phelan is looking back with some rose tinted spectacles here. United always bought under Ferguson and mixed those players with players coming up through the youth teams, but is that really any different to what we are seeing now?
Take Fergie's last game at Old Trafford as an example. 9 of the 11 starters were bought for reasonably large sums from other clubs with the only 2 players not purchased being Welbeck and Scholes, who were actually both subbed for players that we bought for big money from other clubs.
Realistically with the signings we have made this summer we could still field a team with one or two "home made" players every week. It really doesn't look to me like there is much of a change from previous years.
I might be wrong but i'm sure LVG has given 5 players from the youth team their first team debuts and he's only been in charge for 4 matches. If the players in the youth teams are good enough and can embrace his way of playing, he will play them. He's done it before at the clubs he's been and and I can't see that changing now.
Take Fergie's last game at Old Trafford as an example. 9 of the 11 starters were bought for reasonably large sums from other clubs with the only 2 players not purchased being Welbeck and Scholes, who were actually both subbed for players that we bought for big money from other clubs.
Realistically with the signings we have made this summer we could still field a team with one or two "home made" players every week. It really doesn't look to me like there is much of a change from previous years.
I might be wrong but i'm sure LVG has given 5 players from the youth team their first team debuts and he's only been in charge for 4 matches. If the players in the youth teams are good enough and can embrace his way of playing, he will play them. He's done it before at the clubs he's been and and I can't see that changing now.
I remember in Sir Alex book, he said Beckham was already looking for leaving to Madrid. Both of them wanted to stay but has to leave. Welbeck was because he lost his faith to LVG while Beckham because of the incident.
It's annoying that we were told all summer by the media how crap our squad was and that we need to spend big to improve it. We then go and do exactly that and we have all this crap about us having our identity broken and journalists writing faux outraged articles about us betraying the Utd way. As if they really care about the club.
The Beckham transfer in 2003 seems to have been re-written as mean old Fergie selling Beckham against his will. At the time Beckham definitely seemed willing to leave.
The Beckham transfer in 2003 seems to have been re-written as mean old Fergie selling Beckham against his will. At the time Beckham definitely seemed willing to leave.
I agree. Football changes, both on the pitch and off it. If it didn't, we'd still have players going for a pie and a pint and smoking a pack of fags an hour or two before a game, like we did back in the day. There aren't many clubs that are still owned by a local wealthy supporter, like the Blackburn of Jack Walker or Delia's Norwich - and look what's happened to both of those former giants!
If we want to stay as one of the world's top clubs, we have to keep up with our rivals and stay in the mix for the trophies, both home and abroad.
Falcao is just a short term signing. I can't see him as a part of long term building a good team.
We already lost our identity when Sir Alex retired. LVG has different philosophy with Sir Alex anyway.
Just because an academy player has been moved on shows that van Gaal is being ruthless, not breaking United's identity. Keeping a player because he's English, British or homegrown when the man in charge sees him as surplus to requirements is stupid and sentimental.
I believe every managers in Ajax will obviously use their youth promotion a lot. They are not many big names want to move to eredivise clubs even in the past anyway. And also they have a great or probably one of the best academic.
Didn't pay attention much on Barca but he seems really like to sign big names too in there. He promoted some youth though.
AZ. It's an eredivise club so don't expect big names to come unless a big money.
Bayern. He promoted Muller right? Anymore names which I'm missing?
As stated before, you would think United have only existed for a few years.
If is relating to Welbeck, a similar thing happened in 1974 when Brian Kidd left for Arsenal after coming through the ranks under SMB, playing and scoring in the European Cup Final.
Did United lose their identity 40 years ago!
If is relating to Welbeck, a similar thing happened in 1974 when Brian Kidd left for Arsenal after coming through the ranks under SMB, playing and scoring in the European Cup Final.
Did United lose their identity 40 years ago!
Its one of the wonders of the caf.
Well considering your gripe was specifically his scoring rate of 0.6 goals per game, what figure is acceptable? There's a lot of great players past and present who'd be packing their bags if you were manager!
Identity broken....
Over Danny "anyone coming to the Printworks for a few" Welbeck?!
Jesus, I'd understand if LVG had sacked Giggs, got rid of Fletcher and didn't start Blackett and a load of youngsters in the league cup....But, selling Danny bloody Welbeck, has cost us our 136 year old identity?!?!
I don't really know what to say
Over Danny "anyone coming to the Printworks for a few" Welbeck?!
Jesus, I'd understand if LVG had sacked Giggs, got rid of Fletcher and didn't start Blackett and a load of youngsters in the league cup....But, selling Danny bloody Welbeck, has cost us our 136 year old identity?!?!
I don't really know what to say
Alaba, Badstuber.
We have sold plenty of players from the Academy. If you are not good enough, you are not good enough.
Honestly, how hard is it to understand this?
Why can you tell that already?
People are romantic a tad bit too much. I am all for romance but only that is not enough. People need to be realists - Giggs for perma coach, Ole for coach etc. was in the same lines as Welbeck, Cleverley etc. staying.
The case with Welbeck is that people see him as a hard worker that is dedicated to this club. The reality is that he is a striker that can't score goals and is not good enough for United.
I don't care if we have the Pope on our books, if he can't do his job he ain't good enough.
Beckham
Best
Butt
Brown
Giles
Gillespie
Mark Hughes (Twice)
Kidd
Stiles
Neville
To name a few........But Danny Welbeck causes such uproar?!
Insane. Never thought I'd see the day
The same people who's moaning about we're not spending like we should
The same people who's moaning about United lacked the ambition
The same people who's moaning about needing 4-5 first team this year
The same people who's moaning about Cleverly being shit and we need another CM
The same people who's bleating about how world class Rooney is
The same people who's moaning about how we need to have a restructuring and revamp
When you get Revamp and buying star players, we lost our identity.
The same people who's moaning about United lacked the ambition
The same people who's moaning about needing 4-5 first team this year
The same people who's moaning about Cleverly being shit and we need another CM
The same people who's bleating about how world class Rooney is
The same people who's moaning about how we need to have a restructuring and revamp
When you get Revamp and buying star players, we lost our identity.
I can understand why people are upset about Welbeck leaving, including me. But for some reason there is an obsession on this forum with him which has resulted in a massive over reaction, yes he did ok for us, worked hard and had some good link up play, but the number of chances he squandered really hurt us too, just look at the game against Bayern when he was through on goal.
The truth is he's not good enough to play as Manchester United's first choice striker, esp when we have the likes of RVP and Rooney in our ranks. Even an inform Hernandez is a better goal scorer than Welbeck. Understandably he wanted more game time and LVG could not guarantee that so he chose to leave, let's move on it's in the best interest of both parties.
I think you will see how bad his finishing and composure is in front of goal is at Arsenal, i do think he will score a few but will be wasteful.
As I said in another thread, if you are not good enough, you are not good enough.
Lower the romance levels a couple of notches and you will see Danny Can't Score Welbeck was not good enough for united.
Lower the romance levels a couple of notches and you will see Danny Can't Score Welbeck was not good enough for united.
Our identity is of a huge footballing power that mixes buying players with promoting from the youth.
Have we promoted youth - Yes
Have we bought players - Yes
Are we fecking trying to GET BACK to our identity which we LOST when we FINISHED 7TH last season - YES
Have we promoted youth - Yes
Have we bought players - Yes
Are we fecking trying to GET BACK to our identity which we LOST when we FINISHED 7TH last season - YES
You have hit the nail on the head, times have changed. Football is a global game now with vast amounts of money involved. If we don't invest and keep up get used to getting battered 3-0 at home to the likes of Liverpool and City.
This. I thought United's primary identity was to entertain their fans? We're on our way to fix that after it was broken last season.
If you want the best academy, you move players on who aren't up to standard. If you want the best team, you move players on who aren't good enough English, academy graduates, homegrown or Wayne Rooney for that matter. Time stops for nobody.
This is the crux of it I guess. My prediction is that he'll show that he's a good goalscorer at Arsenal - a 20 per season man at least. If he doesn't then fair enough, we've made the right call.
I am not getting the point of this thread. Are you upset we sold off Welbeck or we bought some really good players?
That is a strange viewpoint. If he scores for another team we made the wrong choice....All it matter is that he didn't score for us, no?
Only Mike Phelan could complain about getting in world class players. This mythical past he yearns for would destroy the club - follow the Mike Phelan plan and mid-table mediocrity would be the norm - but we'd retain our tradition. I suppose this mythical tradition is more important than trophies then.
The Moyes era, no CL football and the terrible start to this season has made us splash out. Thats almost certain. I said after every poor game (all of them) this season that they will be beneficial to the club. The nerves and uncertainty is why we have bought Di maria, Falcao etc. The club mean business. Another season of no CL football would be a disaster for the club and every stakeholder within it. The financial loss is massive and the damage to the brand would be catastrophic.
Er, he did score fous - 9 in 15 starts last season, 6 in 6 in the only time he was given a run of more than 2 games.
I don't think it's strange viewpoint at all - if he can't score goals as the lead striker at Arsenal of course that vindicates our decision to sell him. I'm not sure how you can argue with that?
Well the argument can legitimately be whether it's United or Fergie's "identity" that isn't being cohered to. Personally I prefer the approach of buying plaers as long term investments and then watching a team grow, because there's a romance to it, and it does kind of make the team/club unique from the likes of City, Chelsea, Real etc. It means more.
I find it hard to get that excited about signing Falcao, because we didn't need him, we've sold a player I liked a lot just to make room for him, and in a years time what's likely to happen is Hernandez will be sent packing back to United and Falcao will probably then be off to Madrid anyway...and then we don't have Falcao or Welbeck, so we have to buy someone else. Are we just going to buy half a new team every year until we're financially fecked?
Er, he did score fous - 9 in 15 starts last season, 6 in 6 in the only time he was given a run of more than 2 games.
I don't think it's strange viewpoint at all - if he can't score goals as the lead striker at Arsenal of course that vindicates our decision to sell him. I'm not sure how you can argue with that?
Simple! Shinji Kagawa was great at Dortmund. He was not here. Is he a good player? Is he worth changing the whole club around to fit him or he has to fit the team? You see, being a good player is not enough. Danny might be great at Arsenal but does that mean it was mistake selling him?
My point is that a player might be good in one club and bad in another depending on quite a few factors like atmosphere, tactics, teammates, weather, coach, family, salary, physios etc. But selling a player that is not performing the way he is expected to is not a mistake even if he is better elsewhere. We care if he is good for us not for anyone else. Hope you understand me.
Thanks for the feedback mate.
The whole "broken identity" thing is way OTT. We're all sad to see Welbeck leave, but he wasn't the first and most definitely won't be the last promising youth player to leave.