The notion that Maxine Waters and Barbara Boxer are the extreme left's answer to Santorum and company shows how correct the assertion that there's basically no left wing in this country is.
US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012
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The notion that Maxine Waters and Barbara Boxer are the extreme left's answer to Santorum and company shows how correct the assertion that there's basically no left wing in this country is.
Agreed. I find plenty wrong with the republican platform as it is. To brand them as de facto racists isn't responsible and tarnishes the perception of the opposition (including me).
Fox News website???
Its not a reasonable generalization actually. Your view of the republican core is way off base, IMO. I think it's true of the far right. But I think the far left as just as wacko, but for other reasons.
To be fair, one repub candidate is not that far different from Obama politically. If he ends up the nominee Obama will be in for a little fight. Any of the others and he wins comfortably.
I think my view is spot on. The Republican core is not far off from being the far right by a general Western standard. Even in American terms the kind of people who dominate the grass-roots Republican Party are extremely right wing and hold views that any sensible person would consider ludicrous. We're talking about a core whose social conservatism is so strong that they saw fit to boo and jeer a serving US soldier, who happened to be gay, during one of the recent debates. A core that disgracefully cheered Rick Perry when he boasted about how many people his state executes. A core that is comfortable with a misplaced xenophobia against Barack 'Hussein' Obama dominating their politics. I find these people repulsive.
Conservatives in America, as a body, have a major problem with a black man being in the White House. Not all of them, but racism (pure or borderline) dominates their politics at this current time. If the Republicans don't like this characterisation of them as a whole, then why don't they do something about it?
Who said that? Why are you telling me this? It has absolutely nothing to do with the assertion that the Republicans are a lot more extreme than the Democrats.
I wonder if we will ever see anything as low as this take place at a Democratic debate?
Somehow I think not. The current crop of Republicans are a different kettle of fish to anything you get on the left of the Democratic Party.
Those saying conservatives are not racists are correct.
But lets take a look at the 4 candidates now running. Only Romney can safley be said to be 'neutral' . Both assjuice and Newt are blatantly race baiting and Ron Paul has tried to run away from his racist newsletters that brought him a lot of cash.
Romeny in spite of his 'neutral' stance for the most part has struggled badly to win the GOP base. and it is not a defence to say only the primary voters are extremists/racists or whatever. By not voting in the primaries or in the caucuses, the 'majority' are abdicating their responsibility and allowing the crazies to come to the fore.
Raoul linked a great New YorkTimes article that hits the nail on the head. (sorry cant find it)
So are all the non-racists conservatives not going to vote for Santorum if he gets the nomination?
The only ones that will not vote for him are the independents.
And the Republican party is not going to magically come back to the center. It will increasingly become an extreme right wing party with its racist elements intact.
It is the Democratic party that is slowly splitting. Obama went back to the populist message of 'fairness' which was brought on by the Occupy movement, which initself was a reflection of the dissatisfaction with the Democratic party.
imo the country is slowly moving left...this is a natural refection of changing demographics.
in less than 20 years the white race will be a minority. The majorirty of whites will always vote Republican. But as the non-white population increases, whites will no longer be the deciding factor. that is why Axelrod has said that they were not focusing on the Reagen Democrats. They are focusing on the Western States....Hispanics. This is now the most reliable voting block after African Americans for Democrats.
But lets take a look at the 4 candidates now running. Only Romney can safley be said to be 'neutral' . Both assjuice and Newt are blatantly race baiting and Ron Paul has tried to run away from his racist newsletters that brought him a lot of cash.
Romeny in spite of his 'neutral' stance for the most part has struggled badly to win the GOP base. and it is not a defence to say only the primary voters are extremists/racists or whatever. By not voting in the primaries or in the caucuses, the 'majority' are abdicating their responsibility and allowing the crazies to come to the fore.
Raoul linked a great New YorkTimes article that hits the nail on the head. (sorry cant find it)
So are all the non-racists conservatives not going to vote for Santorum if he gets the nomination?
The only ones that will not vote for him are the independents.
And the Republican party is not going to magically come back to the center. It will increasingly become an extreme right wing party with its racist elements intact.
It is the Democratic party that is slowly splitting. Obama went back to the populist message of 'fairness' which was brought on by the Occupy movement, which initself was a reflection of the dissatisfaction with the Democratic party.
imo the country is slowly moving left...this is a natural refection of changing demographics.
in less than 20 years the white race will be a minority. The majorirty of whites will always vote Republican. But as the non-white population increases, whites will no longer be the deciding factor. that is why Axelrod has said that they were not focusing on the Reagen Democrats. They are focusing on the Western States....Hispanics. This is now the most reliable voting block after African Americans for Democrats.
I dont think Ron Paul is racist, certainly no more so than Romney. I think those allegations were pretty fruitless and desperate.
That's nonsense. I don't know where you get your facts and how you can speak of it so unequivocally. You've got to be very damned sure of yourself to so blithely brand so many people as racists. At this point I guess I'll make my own generalization to say that your representation of the republicans in America as filthy racists is cartoonish as best.
Republican nomination -> Racists gonna race
it was proven he made money from those newsletters. That may not make him a racist, but pretty dispicable just the same. And this was brought up by CNN. so where do you say it was proven fruitless? Unless CNN totally got it wrong.
If it was Herman Cain in the White House, they'd be thrilled to bits. How does your hypothesis deal with that ?
The GOP had a a great chance to nominate a totally reasonable man in Huntsman.
The 'conservative ' base did not like him. Why?
The 'conservative ' base did not like him. Why?
I can only state opinion based on my own observations. My view, based on what I read from Republicans on various blogs/discussion boards and on what I've seen in and around the Republican debates (the questioning that takes place during them and the thoughts of Republican supporters when interviewed before/after) is that there is an undeniable xenophobic theme around the conservative criticism of Barack Obama. I can only think that this xenophobia is down to him not being white. The majority of the potential Republican candidates have not only ignored this, but some of them have played up to it in order to garner support.
'I have a black best mate so I can't be racist'.
The Tea Party only lapped up Cain because he was absurdly right wing, as he had to be in order to avoid the xenophobic/racist suspicion that surrounds Obama.
The "they are racists because they dont act like it" thesis, brilliant.
You really don't have a point here. Cain was widely accepted has a frontrunner before a series of media blunders and sex scandals derailed him, which they would have done for any white candidate as well. Had he been more polished, he could have won the GOP nomination. That would fly in the face your GOP racism theory.
The problem at the moment is that hardline social conservatives are getting all the attention, and the candidates are pandering to them. If all you hear is that lot, it leads you to the conclusion that Republicans as a breed are all bigoted pieces of shit. This clearly isn't the case, but it's all we're hearing at the moment. When you have that moment posted earlier where people dying from lack of healthcare is cheered, or when the huge amount of executions in Texas is cheered, or when a US soldier currently serving is booed purely because he's gay - you form opinions of the whole group, fast.
That's not to say the general Republican opposition to Obama isn't disquieting. I can't quite fathom why they think he's some socialist radical (well, maybe they listen to Gingrich too much) when he's been running the country from a fairly central (some would say centre-right) position.
I think he's distrusted and seen as an outsider myself, but I wouldn't say there's widespread racism of any sort.
That's not to say the general Republican opposition to Obama isn't disquieting. I can't quite fathom why they think he's some socialist radical (well, maybe they listen to Gingrich too much) when he's been running the country from a fairly central (some would say centre-right) position.
I think he's distrusted and seen as an outsider myself, but I wouldn't say there's widespread racism of any sort.
He's repeatedly disavowed those remarks and happens to be in favor of ending the war on drugs which is probably one of the most racially unbalanced policies currently still in practice.
As for the overall discussion, racism in general has changed a bit over time. It's no longer a racial/genetic superiority attitude as much as it is a cultural one where whites instantly see blacks and latinos as poor, urban criminals. To some every welfare dollar spent is going to either a welfare queen or a crack addict and therefore welfare programs shouldn't exist at all. Others adopt the attitude that slavery is over and civil rights laws are in place so there's no reason why minorities should still be complaining while completely ignoring the aftereffects that having so many years of anti-minority policies has on an entire nation and the attitudes of ordinary citizens, policy makers, and law enforcers.
So I'd go as far as to argue that the majority of the racism you see in politics is down to ignorance and laziness more than malice.
He can disavow it. not disprove it.
his views on drugs and most other things is 'hands off'. Liberty in his view is really 'you are on your own'.
I agree with the rest of what you said. The GOP method of trying to get elected is nothing new. Its scapegoating. Appealing to ignorance and bigotry.
Chris Mathews addressed the current 'atmosphere' and how disturbing it is yesterday and I think he got it spot on.
I do believe the majority are not racist, but the fact they are willing to overlook the obvious race baiting to vote for 'their' candidae is very disturbing.
There is an alternative. They can show up at these primaries and vote for reasonable candidates who are fiscal conservatives...people like Huntsman.
No but you're making broad generalizations about a large group. The people I mentioned are guilty of what amouts to enflamatory speech as well. Running for the party nomination is irrelevent. Boxer is on the far left of the party. SHe would have a very hard time getting elected if not for San Francisco loving her. As is Waters. If you think not you're not opening your eyes.
I think you're making an undue leap equating their xenophobia with his skin tone. Do you see some of the fierce reactions to his perceived socialism as being race based?
I agree that the republican campaign itself does a pretty fine job of making itself look particularly ridiculous as the participants do their best to cater to the most bizarre elements of their base. However, for me the birther wierdos, and some dopey snickering Obama/Osama muslim crap doesn't signify. I'd venture that the coverage you're getting is typically unbalanced. Not unbalanced from any left/right, Euro/USA sort of stuff, but more the typicall non-representative press failing of preferring to report on the more colorful fringe mongery. Sort of like how a video of some EDL gathering makes for lively viewing, though you'd be dismayed to realize it's representative of England to foreign eyes.
I'm quite sure you've been tracking these nitwit candidates better than I as I know they won't figure in any decision of mine come election day. I think I'm one of the few that's unabashedly proud of the job that Obama's done. I'll be delighted to vote for him again, and in truth I've never gotten around to voting for anything other than the Dems. So I can understand based on the coverage and idiocy on bulletin boards, you could pick up a grotesque image of the repubs. If it puts you at ease though, I can assure you that I've known absolutely loads of them in my time. Many of them who base their views on well thought out, principled arguments. I don't happen to agree with them, but there it is. Believe me that they're not necessarily old, religious, greedy, reactionary or even white, and you won't see or hear them on tv. From what I've gathered, many of them are embarrassed by the current bunch and don't relish the choice they are going to have to make come November...
... which suits me right down to the ground.
I'm sure you know far more about US politics than I do. But even mainstream Repubs still view things like abortion as major issues. The whole gun ownership, overt religious bent and obsession with cutting spending, there is no equivalent here. That isn't just tea party. Even Tory voters love the NHS, there isn't much mileage in attacking public spending per se in the UK, it's always about "waste" and "bureaucracy", not the kind of real small government a US Repub would advocate.
That's how it seems to me, anyway. But granted I don't follow US politics closely, I don't know the specific views of many individual US politicians.
I think you're hitting some good points. Abortion and other social issues is where repubs are losing support of a lot of moderate and independent voters. Socially they are out of touch and inject religeous principles more than most want, IMO. But the talking points about spending and smaller g'ovt is where I think they are stronger. What's so funny is it's just talking points not actual policy because they spend just as much, they just act like they don't. Now maybe a Ron Paul would really try and cut but I think his views would die quickly in congress as neither party would support the cuts he wants.
God, guns and gays.
I don't know if that means race is less of an issue for them, or just that it doesn't start with a g. But my feeling is while Repub party is home to a lot of racists, the party isnt inherently racist. Tho it is true the whole "Hussein" thing with Obama has made them look massive twats, generally. And it is shocking mainstream repubs haven't spoken up against it.
I don't know if that means race is less of an issue for them, or just that it doesn't start with a g. But my feeling is while Repub party is home to a lot of racists, the party isnt inherently racist. Tho it is true the whole "Hussein" thing with Obama has made them look massive twats, generally. And it is shocking mainstream repubs haven't spoken up against it.
As long as moderate Republicans don't make themselves heard where it counts, at the primaries and caucuses, you will only have the current bunch showing up.
But neither party speaks out. First off, Maybe there is an instance of an elected offical saying something about his middle name Hussein but I don't know of one. But there could be. But the dems don't speak out either, I didn't see anyone rushing to condemn Waters (hate to keep harping on her, but its easy) when she came out and called repubs "demons" and devils. And this was after of course the president asked for civility in the post Gifords shooting. No one said boo. So they're equally guilty on these matters.
I do however agree that a couple of the repub party platform items do resonate with hill billy rednecks, especially gun issues. But these idiots would follow anyone who agrees with them.
Very true.
So you were genuinely asking about Huntsman then? You seem like sensible sort so I was rather hoping you'd follow up on it. I didn't track him as he popped in and out so quick.
If you agree with an idiot.....
For some masochistic reason I've been watching Rick Santorum clips on YouTube, the man is frightening to say the least.
If he ever does get elected then I hope NATO carries out a humanitarian intervention in the US to liberate its people.
If he ever does get elected then I hope NATO carries out a humanitarian intervention in the US to liberate its people.
Who would have thought that the reality of 'American Exceptionalism' would change so profoundly in the space of a couple of generations.
It's sort of getting to the worrying stage that by trying to win the Republican nomination, you sabotage your chances of becoming the President.
If Obama was to bounce the Repub candidate would there be a change in tact from the Party?
If Obama was to bounce the Repub candidate would there be a change in tact from the Party?
Odd point but true.
I think there has been a period of the party that has been somwething of a wasted generation (and maybe two). When the Gingrich, Santorum, Palin group fades in to the background I wonder what the new generation will do. The younger repubs must be more socially liberal I'd think. I just don't know what the Rubio's and Jindal's really stand for yet. The public will know more in the next election cycle after this one. Many of the establishment type guys will be gone.
Hunstman would have been the biggest 'threat' to Obama.
But even he had to take one or two unreasonable stances. The reason being he needed to get the attention of conservatives. The one I remember most is all the candidates raising their hands when asked this...
All Republican Candidates Say They Would Reject Deficit Deal With 10 To 1 Ratio Of Spending Cuts To Revenue | ThinkProgress
the only way to bring the country together is have a genuine debate on the issues.
So if your conservative friends express unhappiness with the current bunch, ask them who they voted for in the primary or if they stayed home.
The key in any election is show up...vote.
Not voting is the worst thing you can do.
Cheers CR.
You think Humntsman? I don't know. He's a little of Paul lite isn't he? Maybe that's a good thing.
I think the dems do a better job of uniting behind their guy because they don't seem to feel the need to have their guy agree with every single detail they do. Repubs get lost because if they differ on 1 platform idea it gets focused on. Example, if a guy was a perfect repub in every way but he supported abortion choice, he'd be out. It's liek they have to be almost cookie cutter to win the nomination.
Well said. Agree 100%
It's def interesting to read that. From here it looks like its moving right, but as I mentioned before I am only a casual observer. I can see a general shift left would stimulate a response from the extreme right, maybe that's what the tea party movement is.
I hope you are right. I hope, for example, there is no repeal of Obamacare.
It's funny because not 2 elections ago, it was just that unity that served so well for the repubs. The inclusive nature of the democrats meant their disparity was their undoing, and finding a candidate that could rally that bunch wasn't working. Gore was apparently uninspiring (though I quite liked him), and the same for Kerry. The big political bicker was between the left and centrist dems. Now with a charismatic democrat and the onset and apparent acceptance of this shrieking Tea party, the tables have turned. Their uncompromising, outspoken blather is seen as a rallying force, but it's also proving a destructive one.
It's tough as I'm at the same time happy that they have devalued the republicans, but at the same time distraught that they turned a whole wing of US political into a clown college.
So who will CNN have doing the anthem tonight I wonder?
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