US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012

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Fingers crossed the polls are just based on the debate performance and his new support is soft. If Obama can combine the best of what Biden did with his own calm and likeable manner, we might see a bit of a reversal.

Also, I really hope this is just one guy being a horrific human being, rather than anything widespread:

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I don't think Romney will allow himself to be bullied the way Ryan was, but Obama really needs to be on the offensive and put pressure on him. Make him the one who has to answer for himself.
 
There's two more, one this Tuesday, another one on the twenty-somethingth.

Saliph said:
I don't think Romney will allow himself to be bullied the way Ryan was, but Obama really needs to be on the offensive and put pressure on him. Make him the one who has to answer for himself.
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Agreed on Romney (who thought he'd be the stronger of the two there?) and Obama can't be as aggressive, but he can certainly chase Romney down the dead ends that his policies create, which the President really failed on last time but Biden was very successful at. Defend his record, outline his plan to help people, demonstrate he's the candidate of the centre and probably most importantly, sound confident.
 
Ubik said:
Fingers crossed the polls are just based on the debate performance and his new support is soft. If Obama can combine the best of what Biden did with his own calm and likeable manner, we might see a bit of a reversal.

Also, I really hope this is just one guy being a horrific human being, rather than anything widespread:

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Hate can only go so far....
 
Obama doesn't lead in any of the recent polls used in the RCP combined polls. Its hard for anyone outside the US to understand but Obama's polices do not appeal to the majority of Americans. Socialized anything or federal interference just goes against the American mindset.

That is why Romney is bouncing in the polls. Not because people like him but because his debate performance made him an alternative to something many don't want. Its an anybody but Obama vote rather than a Romney vote. Its going to be mighty difficult to turn Romney momentum around so close to the election. People have had months of attack adverts on Romney and that has been wiped out.

The election is going to be incredibly close now no matter what happens.
 
mjs020294 said:
Obama doesn't lead in any of the recent polls used in the RCP combined polls. Its hard for anyone outside the US to understand but Obama's polices do not appeal to the majority of Americans. Socialized anything or federal interference just goes against the American mindset.

That is why Romney is bouncing in the polls. Not because people like him but because his debate performance made him an alternative to something many don't want. Its an anybody but Obama vote rather than a Romney vote. Its going to be mighty difficult to turn Romney momentum around so close to the election. People have had months of attack adverts on Romney and that has been wiped out.

The election is going to be incredibly close now no matter what happens.
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If that is the case they deserve 4 years of Romney and Ryan dismantling everything the poorer Americans had to fight for.

After decades of Union rights and the right to protest being pissed over and heightening of the government impeding on citizens other rights it's going to be very difficult for them to get it back once it's gone.
 
So Americans don't like Social Security? Or Medicare and Medicaid? Or state schools? Americans like socialist programs just fine, they just don't like to admit it. Not to mention that Obamacare is about as socialist as Thatcher.

And to be a pedant, Obama does actually lead in one poll, but it's by less than 1% in IBD/TIPP so it's been rounding down to a tie. Shit poll anyway though to be fair.

And the "anyone but Obama" thing doesn't tally with his approval rating right now, either.
 
mjs020294 said:
Obama doesn't lead in any of the recent polls used in the RCP combined polls. Its hard for anyone outside the US to understand but Obama's polices do not appeal to the majority of Americans. Socialized anything or federal interference just goes against the American mindset.

That is why Romney is bouncing in the polls. Not because people like him but because his debate performance made him an alternative to something many don't want. Its an anybody but Obama vote rather than a Romney vote. Its going to be mighty difficult to turn Romney momentum around so close to the election. People have had months of attack adverts on Romney and that has been wiped out.

The election is going to be incredibly close now no matter what happens.
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Social security, Medicare, Medicaid etc. are mightily popular socialist programs, so I don't know what you're talking about. The problem is that people don't realize these are socialist programs...

Maher sums it up nicely here



And here (one of my favorite new rules)

 
Ubik said:
So Americans don't like Social Security? Or Medicare and Medicaid? Or state schools? Americans like socialist programs just fine, they just don't like to admit it. Not to mention that Obamacare is about as socialist as Thatcher.

And to be a pedant, Obama does actually lead in one poll, but it's by less than 1% in IBD/TIPP so it's been rounding down to a tie. Shit poll anyway though to be fair.

And the "anyone but Obama" thing doesn't tally with his approval rating right now, either.
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Job Approval rating always tells in how an election turns out for an incumbent.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Obama is trending upwards. Importantly, 4 of the last 5 polls have him at 50.
 
Ubik said:
So Americans don't like Social Security? Or Medicare and Medicaid? Or state schools? Americans like socialist programs just fine, they just don't like to admit it.
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Saliph said:
Social security, Medicare, Medicaid etc. are mightily popular socialist programs, so I don't know what you're talking about. The problem is that people don't realize these are socialist programs...
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Love it how people that don't live in the US, have probably never visited and had definitely never filed taxes in the country know so much about the country. The internet is such and enlightening place to live.

Americans in general don't like much about federal government, its perceived has inefficient and interfering. They just don't embrace much government (federal or state) involvement in their lives.
 
I get the same shit all the time from Americans telling me about the NHS and the UK. People read something or watch a documentary (usually biased or with an agenda) and get elevated to SME status on subjects.

BTW - I am all for more federal government (i.e. socialized medicine) and dilution of the States involvement in many things. I get looked at like I am a fecking alien if I suggest that to anyone here though, even Democrats.....hmmm I suppose to them I am an aline, just a legal one.
 
Bruce Springsteen, Bill Clinton To Campaign For Obama In Ohio

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/13/bruce-springsteen-obama_n_1963598.html

WASHINGTON -- Bruce Springsteen is hitting the campaign trail on President Barack Obama's behalf.

The musician will join former President Bill Clinton at a rally in Parma, Ohio, on Tuesday, the day of the second presidential debate. Obama will not attend the rally.

Springsteen campaigned for Obama in 2008, but this is his first political appearance of the 2012 cycle. Clinton has become an increasingly prominent surrogate for Obama, campaigning for the president in several battleground states.

Clinton and Springsteen's joint appearance in Ohio underscores the importance of the key swing state. Polls show Obama with a slight lead there over Mitt Romney, but the Republican presidential candidate is spending an increasing amount of time and resources in the state ahead of Election Day.
 
mjs020294 said:
Love it how people that don't live in the US, have probably never visited and had definitely never filed taxes in the country know so much about the country. The internet is such and enlightening place to live.

Americans in general don't like much about federal government, its perceived has inefficient and interfering. They just don't embrace much government (federal or state) involvement in their lives.
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You don't like foreigners pointing out flaws in your argument then. Hmkay.

I have family there (who I do visit) and can read, but cheers for the condescension anyway.
 
Ubik said:
I have family there (who I do visit) and can read, but cheers for the condescension anyway.
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I visited in the US for three weeks a year for over a decade before we moved here.

I knew feck all about the US before I moved here and lived it for a few years. I thought I did but nothing beats actually knowing for sure. ;)

OH and BTW - I presume you family are like me, from Europe, so they have a different tilt on things as I do.
 
There's a mix of ex-europeans and natives now, they moved over 30 years back. I learned feck all just from when I've been over, of course (well, other than that American food is amazing and some places ask you to leave your guns at the door), but talking to them is always an aid to understanding.

I don't disagree that a lot of Americans think they don't like social programs, by the way, I just don't think they really realise what they are, that they live with them all the time and that they actually like them.
 
mjs020294 said:
Love it how people that don't live in the US, have probably never visited and had definitely never filed taxes in the country know so much about the country. The internet is such and enlightening place to live.

Americans in general don't like much about federal government, its perceived has inefficient and interfering. They just don't embrace much government (federal or state) involvement in their lives.
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So wait, SS, Medicare etc. are not popular programs? What exactly is your point here?

The absurd belief that government is always evil has achieved a sadomasochistic fervour among many (predominantly Republican) Americans, but when these same people are asked whether they want to get rid of SS and Medicare, for example, they almost unanimously say no. That tells me that they don't know what they're talking about when they say they don't want any government intervention in their lives.

The Republicans/Fox News have succeeded in painting the government as inefficient and interfering, and people don't realize that a bigger government would actually be to their advantage. I mean, when middle class people defend the status quo in the American health care system, they're doing themselves an enormous disservice, whilst simultaneously beating off the insurance industry.
 
Ubik said:
Fingers crossed the polls are just based on the debate performance and his new support is soft. If Obama can combine the best of what Biden did with his own calm and likeable manner, we might see a bit of a reversal.

Also, I really hope this is just one guy being a horrific human being, rather than anything widespread:

tumblr_mbu7ez6Rqm1qdkbc5o1_1280.jpg
Click to expand...

Red Dreams said:
Hate can only go so far....
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Ya it's disgusting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/12/samuel-l-jackson-obama-vote-black_n_1271797.html

"I voted for Barack because he was black. Cause that’s why other folks vote for other people — because they look like them," Jackson said, according to the New York Post.

He contended that Obama's message wasn't important, since he believes most politicians will say anything to get elected.

"That’s American politics, pure and simple. [Obama’s] message didn’t mean [anything] to me. In the end, he’s a politician. I just hoped he would do some of what he said he was gonna do. I know politicians ... lie cause they want to get elected," he continued, according to TMZ.
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Really? Pointing out that there are also black people who vote based on color is a poor response for you (continually) saying repubs are racist?

Voting for color is retarded, no matter what color you're voting for.
 
Cali Red said:
Really? Pointing out that there are also black people who vote based on color is a poor response for you (continually) saying repubs are racist?

Voting for color is retarded, no matter what color you're voting for.
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I never said Republicans are racists. You lie.

Read up on race relations in this country first.

EDIT: I work with a majority of Republicans. Not a racist among them. What I have said was the current party has fully embraced the worst racist elements in American society.

The evidence other than the usual racial code words are the Voter suppression laws that have been enacted by GOP that directly affect AA and Latinos disproportionately.

Finally. It is one thing to vote For a black person...as many African Americans did the last time and voting against a black person. Would Jackson be voting against Hillary Clinton next time?
 
Just catching up on the VP debate, its really quite embarrassing across the board.

Are these debates really meant to facilitate an.educated vote?
 
Red Dreams said:
I never said Republicans are racists. You lie.

Read up on race relations in this country first.
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I do?????

Red Dreams said:
your pulling stuff out of the arse is what is embarrassing...

that 99% poll you conducted with yourself above...is an example.

I take Romney at his word....unless you claim to know what he is thinking...

'unamerican' 'foreign'

'does not understand our anglo-saxon heritage'

race is the elephant in the room that even the media find uncomfortable to address.

' the blacks are all on welfare'

'the hispanics want to take your job'

while certainly all conservatives are not racist. The current republican party is racist...thus them feeling totally comfortable with using such derogatory terms.
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Care to retract that comment? Or maybe your position has now "evolved" to something else. ;)
 
Red Dreams said:
read my edit post ;)

you need to improve your comprehension CR :)
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Hadn't seen your edit. (also known as back tracking, you got a safety beeper on that thing when you back up?)

The last line of your EDIT is just way off base. Because one could say voting for a black person because he's black is also voting against a white person because he's white. You're adept at being subtle with your calling of racism but I still think it's what you're doing. And while you're using an mjs style pointing out that 'you know many people yadda yadda yadda' I think your overriding opinion of Republicans is they are racist. It took me all of 5 seconds to find that post and I can't be arsed to go dig up more but I remember one not all that long ago where you made a reference to voting because of the color of the guy in the white house or something of that nature.
 
Cali Red said:
Hadn't seen your edit. (also known as back tracking, you got a safety beeper on that thing when you back up?)

The last line of your EDIT is just way off base. Because one could say voting for a black person because he's black is also voting against a white person because he's white. You're adept at being subtle with your calling of racism but I still think it's what you're doing. And while you're using an mjs style pointing out that 'you know many people yadda yadda yadda' I think your overriding opinion of Republicans is they are racist. It took me all of 5 seconds to find that post and I can't be arsed to go dig up more but I remember one not all that long ago where you made a reference to voting because of the color of the guy in the white house or something of that nature.
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tbh. saw your post after my Edit :)

Without my going back and looking at something inarticulate I may have said...I believe the Republican party has embraced discrimination. I posted as evidence the Voter ID laws as one.

Thats just the way I see it and I stand by it.

As for individuals...that is real life experience. These Republicans I know are friends...but terribly misled. They buy into all the economic nonsense the GOP pushes.

Fair point about voting for a black person is voting against a white person. Nothing wrong with a black person after the terrible history of their race in this country finally wanting to see one 'their own' in the White House.

Do you think they will vote for a Cain against a Clinton? Of course not. It is what they stand for.

The two examples above are very different...you made a false equivalence. The white guy is a racist. simple.

Jackson is not...unless you don't see the argument I make.
 
Red Dreams said:
tbh. saw your post after my Edit :)

Without my going back and looking at something inarticulate I may have said...I believe the Republican party has embraced discrimination. I posted as evidence the Voter ID laws as one.

Thats just the way I see it and I stand by it.

As for individuals...that is real life experience. These Republicans I know are friends...but terribly misled. They buy into all the economic nonsense the GOP pushes.

Fair point about voting for a black person is voting against a white person. Nothing wrong with a black person after the terrible history of their race in this country finally wanting to see one 'their own' in the White House.

Do you think they will vote for a Cain against a Clinton? Of course not. It is what they stand for.

The two examples above are very different...you made a false equivalence. The white guy is a racist. simple.

Jackson is not...unless you don't see the argument I make.
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I see the argument you make I just don't agree with it. "Wanting one of their own [color]" is racism. And only proves my point, in my opinion, that you are again trying to make subtle remarks about one party being racist. And talk about false equivalents, if Cain were running, AA's could vote on issues because for them, race would now not be a factor against Obama. Even though even in this instance one could argue the "black enough" stance (i.e. Stacy Dash's Twitter issue). And as for Clinton....meh, brings up the whole first black president joke.....
 
Cali Red said:
I see the argument you make I just don't agree with it. "Wanting one of their own [color]" is racism. And only proves my point, in my opinion, that you are again trying to make subtle remarks about one party being racist. And talk about false equivalents, if Cain were running, AA's could vote on issues because for them, race would now not be a factor against Obama. Even though even in this instance one could argue the "black enough" stance (i.e. Stacy Dash's Twitter issue). And as for Clinton....meh, brings up the whole first black president joke.....
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fair enough.

The Democratic party is inclusive. I don't see the GOP as such. tbh their polices hurt all races but many who vote for them just don't see it.

I have discussed 'racism' elsewhere so will not go into it again here. I simply will say non-whites especially Blacks and Hispanics are not on a level playing field.

coincidentally it looks like Affirmative Action may be struck down.

A separate discussion that.
 
Red Dreams said:
imo Obama has these States for sure. 201+MI/WI/NH/NV/IA/PA

That leaves him only at 263. He needs one of CO/FL/OH/VA

A harder climb for Romney...but certainly not improbable.
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A recent poll in NH put Romney ahead, NV within MOE, and no good polls in Iowa for a while.

Another poor performance in the debates by Obama would probably put these into play.
 
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