According to Chris Matthews, JFK chose to not use military action in the Cuban Missile Crisis due to a threat received from Moscow that if he sank those ships they'd bum-rush Berlin and slaughter US/allied troops. All 10,000 of them. And bang - WWIII kicks off. Kennedy chose wisely IMO. Today's neocons would have told Moscow to feck off.
US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012
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According to Chris Matthews, JFK chose to not use military action in the Cuban Missile Crisis due to a threat received from Moscow that if he sank those ships they'd bum-rush Berlin and slaughter US/allied troops. All 10,000 of them. And bang - WWIII kicks off. Kennedy chose wisely IMO. Today's neocons would have told Moscow to feck off.
Which is not what Grinner stated.
How he ignored prior warnings is not related to his reaction of 9/11.
But I'm not being drawn into some silly argument over this.
FWIW, I read Robert McNamara's "In Retrospect" and in relation to the escalation of the war, the gist of it was that he (and Kennedy) were leaning away from it before LBJ came in.
...and WWIII this time would involve Nuclear weapons. That was his bigger fear.
I agree about your theory on the insane Neo-Cons.
It's my opinion that he didn't know what to do after being told we were under attack.
Perhaps he thought, "feck. Clinton had warned me. We have no contingency plan for a home-soil terrorist attack."
Then on the other hand, had Clinton allowed CIA to strike the location OBL had been spotted, on two separate occasions, perhaps 9/11 never occurs.
Not sure what that has to do with GWB's leadership qualities.
that is correct. Remember reading him asking how a Marine from Virginia would handle fighting in the jungles of Vietnam. Of this I am convinced. He would not have toyed with American lives. He fought a war and showed great courage in saving the lives of his men.
He was not afraid..but certainly not a hawk.
Dulles poisoned pill.
It was planned to fail but Kennedy refused to take the bait and launch a full scale war.
My grandpa did a tour over there ('Nam). He feckin hated it. He was a LRRP for the Army so was often out on patrol solo or with a small group or squad. Basically they did recon stuff.
To this day he wishes Nixon had nuked the feckin country.
To this day he wishes Nixon had nuked the feckin country.
right Saliph.
Guess Obama's final Electoral vote count.
Guess Obama's final Electoral vote count.
More of a rebuttal when people cite Bush ignored warnings prior to 9/11. Despite what Clinton failed to do as well, it was ultimately up to Bush to take charge of the problem and he did fail.
Post WWII President rankings
1. Obama
2. Eisenhower
3. Truman
4. Clinton
5. Kennedy
6. Bush Sr
7. Carter
8. Nixon
9. Johnson
10. Ford
11. Reagan
12. Bush Jr.
1. Obama
2. Eisenhower
3. Truman
4. Clinton
5. Kennedy
6. Bush Sr
7. Carter
8. Nixon
9. Johnson
10. Ford
11. Reagan
12. Bush Jr.
what I have read is Clinton admin warned Bush, who did not take the warning seriously.
what did Clinton fail to do in your opinion?
yours?
Yes.
Yeah, I find the right wingnuts quite hypocritical how they attacked Democrats for not serving or draft-dodging yet do not find Romney's missionary election (how convenient to do so during a war) a problem.
Btw, my grandpa doesn't talk much about his tour in 'Nam. He's showed me a few pictures and told me a couple stories, that's all. He did tell me how he attacked a "gook" from behind and slit his throat, did so to keep himself and another LRRP from being detected. Says he still has nightmares about his tour.
I recall being about 8 or 9 years of age and my grandma was preparing dinner and asked me to go wake grandpa up. So I ran in there and was shaking his arm asking him to wake up and he grabbed me by throat and slammed me to the bed. I about pissed myself and fortunately he snapped out of it. It was that day I learned to either yell at him from a distance, blast music, or throw stuffed animals at him if her were asleep.
Btw, my grandpa doesn't talk much about his tour in 'Nam. He's showed me a few pictures and told me a couple stories, that's all. He did tell me how he attacked a "gook" from behind and slit his throat, did so to keep himself and another LRRP from being detected. Says he still has nightmares about his tour.
I recall being about 8 or 9 years of age and my grandma was preparing dinner and asked me to go wake grandpa up. So I ran in there and was shaking his arm asking him to wake up and he grabbed me by throat and slammed me to the bed. I about pissed myself and fortunately he snapped out of it. It was that day I learned to either yell at him from a distance, blast music, or throw stuffed animals at him if her were asleep.
What criteria are you using? Who you would like to go down on.
Johnson tainted his legacy with Vietnam. Otherwise he would be much higher in many people's list for the Civil Rights Act, Medicare and Medicaid at least.
Yep. Nailed it.
I personally felt he could have taken more covert action against terror cells around the world. As for OBL, "Alec Station" had him in their sites on two separate occasions, and were not given the green light to take him out with a missile strike. One of the occasions involved an identified Saudi prince fox hunting with OBL and it was said by interviewed field officers that the request went all the way to the WH due to a royal being involved. They stated the request to strike was denied for fear of a political nightmare. This prince was not there by dumb luck or coincidence. I would have preferred Clinton kill them all, feck the Saudi royals if they got angry. Half of them are funding terrorists anyhow. We all know, everyone knows.
There is a good documentary about this Alec Station and OBL.
Not really the same though. Clinton tried and failed while Bush just ignored OBL.
all those poor guys who went through hell over there....thanks for sharing that Marcello.
I mean even now look at all our soldiers coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. These Republicans while waving the flag voted against the Presidents Veterans Jobs bill.
They called it a gimmick. yeah a veterans job is a gimmick. The Republicans serving in senate and congress and blocking such bills is patriotic though.
Sure, if you give Clinton a pass for failure to take OBL out on two separate occasions.
I like Johnson. He came from a very harsh background and experienced first hand the problems that he later tried to fix with his Great Society programs. I think he simply gave the hawks their war in order to get the domestic agenda passed. Unfortunately for him they fecked up the prosecution of the war and turned the country against him. At least he had the character to stand aside and let somebody else try and fix the mess.
Bush in fact helped send the Saudi royal family back to SA when all planes were ordered down.
What do you mean a pass? Like I said, he tried and failed. It's better than not even trying and ignoring the threat completely and then joking about the whole thing.
Is that a bad thing?
Hannity is especially hilarious tonight. Herman Cain on to talk about Libya...the issue that left him completely lost when asked about it as a candidate because he had no idea what the policy was.
Then there's Malkin doing her usual and finally Herr Priebus trying to not sound like Dick Dastardly whenever he speaks. I swear he has to consciously dial down the vile when he is on TV.
Then there's Malkin doing her usual and finally Herr Priebus trying to not sound like Dick Dastardly whenever he speaks. I swear he has to consciously dial down the vile when he is on TV.
Myth. They were flown out on 20 September. And the CTs love to jump on this myth to support their inside job bullshit.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Bin_Laden_family_flight
highly hypocritical at the least. The Saudis knew all about the activities of OBL...yet Bush invaded Iraq under false pretences.
he certainly helped them leave. How many knew what OBL was up to?
Cheers for the vids of Clinton and FNC, RD. Good stuff. I have never heard of OBL being connected to Somalia, a stupid claim if anyone uses that against Clinton. I also was not aware he was desiring to go into Afghanistan. I hear plenty of liberals that cite Bush going into Afghanistan was not just, but Clinton wanted to, seems hypocritical. I still find Afghanistan a just war.
He didn't address the OBL/Saudi prince fox hunting incident though granted it was not brought up in the interview.
I need to check out Clarke's book.
He didn't address the OBL/Saudi prince fox hunting incident though granted it was not brought up in the interview.
I need to check out Clarke's book.
What should Obama do about this FBI/Libya issue?
Well considering how OBL had been royally booted from the family and Saudi, they very well knew he was a twisted individual hellbent on destroying anyone that did not subscribe to his batshit religious fanaticism.
Getting the "good" Bin Ladens out of harms way (i.e. the USA) was a right call.
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