US Presidential Election: Tuesday November 6th, 2012

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Jaz said:
What a load of nonsense. So many double-standards.

Bush passed the test over and over again. He was Gov of Texas, beat a really good candidate, then got re-elected, was one of the most popular Texas gov's ever. He beat Gore on electoral-vote (the vote that decides who is President), Gore was also articulate, experienced and popular. Bush won that battle. He then again, got re-elected against Kerry. You said the presidency is rigorous, yes it is, Bush won twice. He was qualified to be President, and was.
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:lol:


now that is a load of utter nonsense.

You just dont get it.


EDIT: I discounted Pailin from standing..I did not discount Bush. But I did idict him for a number of things. From the debates even bush came across as utter unprepared and his 'Texas' experience were just that. read: Perry.
 
Red Dreams said:
:lol:


now that is a load of utter nonsense.

You just dont get it.
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Except, you defy your own logic.

You said the presidential system is rigorous and the true test measure if a President is qualified. Obama won against a poor candidate, you say this makes him qualified. Bush does it twice against two good candidates, this doesn't make him qualified? Then we looked at education, Bush has two good honours from great Unis, against Obama's one. We looked at executive experience, Bush wins on that too.

Keep on digging...
 
Eboue27 said:
Bush didn't receive more legal votes in Florida, ergo it was stolen.
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It depends what people considered as a legal vote. Only a very lenient system, would have had Gore winning,. The fact is that of properly filled in a marked votes, Bush won.
 
Jaz said:
Except, you defy your own logic.

You said the presidential system is rigorous and the true test measure if a President is qualified. Obama won against a poor candidate, you say this makes him qualified. Bush does it twice against two good candidates, this doesn't make him qualified? Then we looked at education, Bush has two good honours from great Unis, against Obama's one. We looked at executive experience, Bush wins on that too.

Keep on digging...
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..err except your choices have proven to be failures. That is what I was saying...and I did say even then some..like Bush slip through. Pailn would never have made the cut. McCain chose her...his mistake.

btw Mccain was not a poor candidate. keep up. His vision did not sell.
 
Grinner said:
But Bush's executive experience isn't really there is it? He fecked up most of the big decisions he was faced with.
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What?

In 2000, Bush's executive record from Texas was pretty good. Compare that to none of Obama's in 2008.
 
Red Dreams said:
..err except your choices have proven to be failures. That is what I was saying...and I did say even then some..like Bush slip through. Pailn would never have made the cut. McCain chose her...his mistake.

btw Mccain was not a poor candidate. keep up. His vision did not sell.
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My choices? I'm not even american. I would have voted Clinton, Gore, maybe Obama. :wenger:

I'm simply saying that Bush wasn't and isn't..
a) stupid
b) dumb
c) unqualified for the role

McCain was not a candidate for change, or a candidate for future. He was too old and tired. He was going to lose.
 
Jaz said:
Obama had no executive experience. Palin was Gov of Alaska, so was Bush and Clinton. Obama had no experience in the executive branch of any government, organisation or business.
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Jaz said:
:rolleyes: If you compared the CV's of Obama and Palin and only their CV's for the job. Palin would come out top.
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Afro-shaking-head-no.gif


Barack Obama
United States Senator from Illinois
In office January 3, 2005 – November 16, 2008
Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th District
In office January 8, 1997 – November 4, 2004
Profession: Community organizer, Lawyer, Constitutional law professor, Politician, Author
Alma mater: Occidental College, Columbia College (B.A.), Harvard Law School (J.D.)


Sarah Palin
9th Governor of Alaska
In office December 4, 2006 – July 26, 2009
Chairperson of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
In office February 19, 2003 – January 23, 2004
Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska [population 7,831]
In office October 14, 1996 – October 14, 2002
Occupation: Local news sportscaster, Commercial fisherman, Politician, Author, Political commentator[5]
Alma mater: University of Idaho - (B.S., 1987)[4]
 
Jaz said:
What?

In 2000, Bush's executive record from Texas was pretty good. Compare that to none of Obama's in 2008.
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Texas governor doesn't really have much power. The Lt. Governor actually wields more power.

We got to see what this meant when he decided to make a feckery of the office of POTUS...nominating ******* Miers for SC, declaring unfunded wars, trampling over the constitution etc. etc.
 
gooDevil said:
Afro-shaking-head-no.gif


Barack Obama
United States Senator from Illinois
In office January 3, 2005 – November 16, 2008
Member of the Illinois Senate from the 13th District
In office January 8, 1997 – November 4, 2004
Profession: Community organizer, Lawyer, Constitutional law professor, Politician, Author
Alma mater: Occidental College, Columbia College (B.A.), Harvard Law School (J.D.)


Sarah Palin
9th Governor of Alaska
In office December 4, 2006 – July 26, 2009
Chairperson of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
In office February 19, 2003 – January 23, 2004
Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska [population 7,831]
In office October 14, 1996 – October 14, 2002
Occupation: Local news sportscaster, Commercial fisherman, Politician, Author, Political commentator[5]
Alma mater: University of Idaho - (B.S., 1987)[4]
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:rolleyes: Obama had legislative experience as a lawmaker, not as an executive, which is what the Presidency is, the executive branch of government.

So as the job role goes, surely being Gov is more relevant experience.
 
Jaz said:
My choices? I'm not even american. I would have voted Clinton, Gore, maybe Obama. :wenger:

I'm simply saying that Bush wasn't and isn't..
a) stupid
b) dumb
c) unqualified for the role

McCain was not a candidate for change, or a candidate for future. He was too old and tired. He was going to lose.
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now just give over Jaz.

I know you are not an American.

Firstly from all your 'teabagger' posts I cannot believe you would have voted Democrat. :eek:

Bush allowed himself to be manupilated..at Best. He certainly came across as stupid and dumb...of course we cannot tell for sure as there is no IQ test we know of on him.

Your assessment of Mccain is unfair. If he had run as the 'maverick' he always claimed to be..and run as a candidate who could work across party lines..which he always had before....in fact Kerry wanted him as a running mate even...he would have had a good chance. He only sold on his experience though. But him picking Palin was seen as a sellout and an indication of him making a poor decision.

But he was not a 'change' candidate...correct. It was a change election.

In total votes he was not that far behind Obama. He lost big on the Electral votes though.
 
Grinner said:
Senators don't tend to make very good candidates.
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They usually don't make it.. those that do tend to do well though.. Obama, Nixon, Truman, Kennedy.

So a Senator who actually become President is probably going to be a good President.
 
in the past Governors were the ones chosen for the so called 'executive' experience. But as we have seen with Bush and Palin that is no longer a safe bet.

The 'experience' argument is losing its appeal. We are looking for 'vision'...probabaly why Obama is winning currently.
 
Jaz said:
They usually don't make it.. those that do tend to do well though.. Obama, Nixon, Truman, Kennedy.

So a Senator who actually become President is probably going to be a good President.
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Nixon and Kennedy were very close friends as congressmen and then senators. It's an interesting backstory to their rivalry.

But back in those days the Senators tended to be much smarter and well-rounded than those we have today. At least the ones who ended up winning or getting close to the Presidency anyway.

Senators have the organizations and the connections to mount effective campaigns, but they are too beholden to their backers these days and tarnished with voting records to be able to appeal to the mainstream.
 
Grinner said:
Nixon and Kennedy were very close friends as congressmen and then senators. It's an interesting backstory to their rivalry.

But back in those days the Senators tended to be much smarter and well-rounded than those we have today. At least the ones who ended up winning or getting close to the Presidency anyway.

Senators have the organizations and the connections to mount effective campaigns, but they are too beholden to their backers these days and tarnished with voting records to be able to appeal to the mainstream.
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the reason why Obama ran so quickly in his first term probably.
 
Red Dreams said:
If I interviewed her for an executive position in my company...she would not get the job...simple.
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And based on real life experience the same could be said for Obama. He is a great speaker, campaigner, and scores high on the cool factor but he really isn't that strong on real experience of running anything or decision making.
 
Whereas between his oil company that couldn't find oil, his baseball team that was bad at baseball, and his governorship of a state where the Governor isn't actually in charge, Dubya had been a phony "executive" for most of his life, and made a calamitous hash of the Presidency.
 
Excal said:
Whereas between his oil company that couldn't find oil, his baseball team that was bad at baseball, and his governorship of a state where the Governor isn't actually in charge, Dubya had been a phony "executive" for most of his life, and made a calamitous hash of the Presidency.
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Well said. It's no good having executive experience if you were a shit executive.
 
mjs020294 said:
And based on real life experience the same could be said for Obama. He is a great speaker, campaigner, and scores high on the cool factor but he really isn't that strong on real experience of running anything or decision making.
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except Obama does not come across as a fool which Palin clearly does.

I would mark someone who had the integrity to choose working with and helping the poor pretty high..especially when he could have chosen to get a high paying job in a firm.
 
Red Dreams said:
except Obama does not come across as a fool which Palin clearly does.

I would mark someone who had the integrity to choose working with and helping the poor pretty high..especially when he could have chosen to get a high paying job in a firm.
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Do you remember Giuliani at the convention mocking his being a Community Organizer? What a cnut...as if trying to help the poor is to be sneered at. I'm really sick of the right wing view of success and achievement as being all about how much money you make and whom you screw over to get to the top.
 
Grinner said:
Do you remember Giuliani at the convention mocking his being a Community Organizer? What a cnut...as if trying to help the poor is to be sneered at. I'm really sick of the right wing view of success and achievement as being all about how much money you make and whom you screw over to get to the top.
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Exactly. The guy was president of the Harvard Law Review. He could have went anywhere and made gobs of money but instead he tried to help people make their lives better.
 
Grinner said:
Do you remember Giuliani at the convention mocking his being a Community Organizer? What a cnut...as if trying to help the poor is to be sneered at. I'm really sick of the right wing view of success and achievement as being all about how much money you make and whom you screw over to get to the top.
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they all did...

these are the 'values' we are fighting over now.
 
The latest thing on the right wing blogs seems to be a theory that the polls are oversampling the Democrats. I suppose they have to have something to cling on to given the way they've been headed.

A small concern though. It's obviously anecdotal but given people i'm talking to, i'm finding it tough to believe that Democrat enthusiasm is as high as Republican enthusiasm. Hopefully, it isn't just a holdover from the convention and it continues into the polls.
 
Jaz said:
I think you have to be seriously deluded to think that Bush was an idiot.

He has two very good degrees. He was a popular governor in Texas, beat a very good candidate, and then gained popularity. Back in the early 2000's, he was able to debate very well, fairly articulate and well-educated. He won 2 general elections, one against a very good candidate.

Yes, there were serious mistakes as President, but to be honest, he did cope (to some extent) with 2 of the biggest crises in the USA post-WW2, 9/11 and the financial crisis in 2007-8. The wars did not go well, and Katrina was the main reason he become unpopular.
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Nope I lived in the country for his entire term and listened to the wanker try to speak everyday. He was a grade A buffoon end of!
 
Jaz said:
What?

In 2000, Bush's executive record from Texas was pretty good. Compare that to none of Obama's in 2008.
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On what planet was Bush's executive record pretty good?

http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/bushs-record-as-governor/

During the 2000 election, most of the major national media shamefully chose to ignore his record as Governor of Texas, so I thought you might be interested in knowing just what he accomplished during his tenure in my home state.

The following data were valid as of the end of his first term, and are taken from the Census Bureau, National Center for Health Statistics, the EPA, and the Congressional Quarterly. They rank Texas in relation to the other 49 states.

To be fair, Texas was at the top of some ratings:

* 1st in pollution released by manufacturing plants;
* 1st in pollution by industrial plants in violation of the federal Clean Air Act;
* 1st in greenhouse gas emissions;
* 1st in number of working parents without health insurance;
* 1st in percentage of children without health insurance.

* 2nd in number of children living in poverty;
* 2nd in percentage of population without health insurance;
* 2nd in number of children without health insurance (1st in percentage)

* 3rd in percent of non-elderly population without health insurance

* 5th in poverty rate;
* 5th in teen birth rate.

Here's a listing of where Texas is at or near the bottom relative to other states:

* 50th in teacher salaries plus benefits ("No Child Left Behind"? you've got to be kidding!)
* 50th in per-capita spending on government administration;
* 50th in per-capita interest paid on state's general debt;
 
Ramshock said:
Being shot less than 3 years inside your first term wouldn't help that. However he kept the US out of Vietnam on his watch and made Kruschev back down over Cuba. Dubya smart and Kennedy bad you are just on a fecking roll today aren't ya? :lol:
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Kennedy kept us out of Vietnam :lol: you need to do more research
 
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