US Politics

Il Prete Rosso said:
If Congress were actually willing to give Americans affordable healthcare and not care about pharmaceutical industry profits and campaign donations, 5 years later the law would have been a lot better. It may not have been perfect but you can't argue now that Obamacare is failing whilst trying to undermine it.
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Obamacare failed regardless of what I post on an internet forum. It failed at truly addressing the problems of healthcare in this country (places with only one insurer, bad plans that didn't cover enough or had an insurmountable deductible before they would cover anything, rising premiums, "if you like your doctor you can keep him", letting governors choose whether or not to expand medicaid, etc) and it failed at creating a constituency of voters who would come out and support it in elections. There is a reason why it only had positive favorables once trump got elected and people were faced with the barbarity of the republican plan. -8 approvals on election day, double digit unfavorables for years. incrementalism failed.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
 
Eboue said:
Obamacare failed regardless of what I post on an internet forum. It failed at truly addressing the problems of healthcare in this country (places with only one insurer, bad plans that didn't cover enough or had an insurmountable deductible before they would cover anything, rising premiums, "if you like your doctor you can keep him", letting governors choose whether or not to expand medicaid, etc) and it failed at creating a constituency of voters who would come out and support it in elections. There is a reason why it only had positive favorables once trump got elected and people were faced with the barbarity of the republican plan. -8 approvals on election day, double digit unfavorables for years. incrementalism failed.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
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The law had nothing to do with all you posted. Republicans in Congress and their governors made it quite clear that they were going to make sure it failed. By 2012 Republicans controlled Congress and most governorships and we all know what happened after that. Don't blame the law, blame the people/politicians who chose to ensure the status quo of Americans being screwed over for profit was kept. My problem with people like you is that you all think that Obama was trying some kind of Bolshevik plot to kill people. You can't blame him for at least trying to make healthcare affordable or even accessible for people who would normally can't afford it. The law wasn't perfect, but to imply that it was going to fail regardless of what you post sounds extremely ideological to me. Let's not do this...it's been debated too many times...you don't like the Affordable Care Act. Good to know.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
The law had nothing to do with all you posted. Republicans in Congress and their governors made it quite clear that they were going to make sure it failed. By 2012 Republicans controlled Congress and most governorships and we all know what happened after that. Don't blame the law, blame the people/politicians who chose to ensure the status quo of Americans being screwed over for profit was kept. My problem with people like you is that you all think that Obama was trying some kind of Bolshevik plot to kill people. You can't blame him for at least trying to make healthcare affordable or even accessible for people who would normally can't afford it. The law wasn't perfect, but to imply that it was going to fail regardless of what you post sounds extremely ideological to me. Let's not do this...it's been debated too many times...you don't like the Affordable Care Act. Good to know.
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The law was a Mitt Romney brainchild which was then handed over to insurance lobbyist to play around with. Even without reading into it's flaws anyone on the progressive wing knows it's not worth shit. Medicare for all is the only reasonable health plan.
 
Eboue said:
you have serious reading comprehension issues
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Hardly. That was not a dig at you and I apologize if it came across that way. I agree with most of the stuff you put in brackets but my point was that most of those issues could have been fixed. I'm sure that Obama preferred single payer or universal Medicaid but he chose the Romney plan probably thinking that Republicans in Congress would get on board.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
Hardly. That was not a dig at you and I apologize if it came across that way. I agree with most of the stuff you put in brackets but my point was that most of those issues could have been fixed. I'm sure that Obama preferred single payer or universal Medicaid but he chose the Romney plan probably thinking that Republicans in Congress would get on board.
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But I don't think Obama was trying a bolshevik plan. I think Obama was trying a giveaway to insurance companies. I'm not actually convinced he wanted single payer because he refused to fight for it and foolishly thought he could work with republicans.
 
I think Obamacare was a Joe Lieberman away from including a public option.
 
Ubik said:
I think Obamacare was a Joe Lieberman away from including a public option.
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Scott Brown replacing Kennedy was the one who prevented the Dems from getting to 60 votes.

Obama should've rammed the entire thing through quicker instead of negotiating with the likes of McConnell, Grassley, and Enzi...who basically just strung him along until there was enough GOP counter-sentiment to impede the bill from moving on in a more meaningful form.
 
Raoul said:
He would be considered safe and will probably still win, but Texas is gradually blueing up to where it will be in play in future cycles.
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Trump's approval rating there is very low as well, isn't it? Could be an outside shot for 2020 if current trends continue, albeit obviously good to temper expectations in that regard.
 
More bad news for the GOP. Next week's AZ08 voting will either confirm or deny whether this is hype or legit. If the Dem wins in a district where Trump won by 21 points in 2015 then that could be ominous for the Rs.

 
Ubik said:
Interesting that most don't knows are young and hispanic voters.
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That's why there's growing sentiment that Texas may flip at some point. 39% of its voters are hispanic (same as California and only behind New Mexico which is at 45%). The reason Texas isn't bluer is because its pretty gerrymandered.

2:40 in....

 
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I don't want to get into Barbara Bush good/bad takes but Joy Reid was blatantly using her death to whitewash the rest of her (absolutely awful) family. The context is that Karla Tucker was a death row inmate in Bush's Texas.

Edit - fecking tucker carlson was disgusted by W there.
 
berbatrick said:


I don't want to get into Barbara Bush good/bad takes but Joy Reid was blatantly using her death to whitewash the rest of her (absolutely awful) family. The context is that Karla Tucker was a death row inmate in Bush's Texas.

Edit - fecking tucker carlson was disgusted by W there.
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Joy is correct in her assessment.
 
Raoul said:
Joy is correct in her assessment.
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I think Bush mocking someone whose death he just authorised is about as bad (in terms of decorum and all that jazz) as Trump has ever done.

In terms of actions, Iraq is still worse than whatever Trump has done, and Katrina was handled as badly as PR.
 
berbatrick said:
I think Bush mocking someone whose death he just authorised is about as bad (in terms of decorum and all that jazz) as Trump has ever done.

In terms of actions, Iraq is still worse than whatever Trump has done, and Katrina was handled as badly as PR.
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Nothing will ever do as much damage as the delegitimization of institutions as Trump as done.
 
Raoul said:
What's your point ? Should they be delegitimized by Trump then ?
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Depends on what that involves.

If people start seeing the intelligence services as self-serving and Congress as cowards who serve the rich, that is a drastic improvement in public consciousness.

If you are referring to his non-staffing and gutting of the EPA and the way Betsy DeVos runs her department - that is terrible, but it is the long-standing philosophy of the GOP right (see Bush's EPA which withdrew from Kyoto; I forgot to mention that above and it was one of the most important negative decisions in recent history)

Edit - to sum up, in his worst aspects Trump is simply following the GOP line.
The single difference is his response to Charlottesville and issues like that (more in rhetoric than actions I guess). That's it.
 
berbatrick said:
Depends on what that involves.

If people start seeing the intelligence services as self-serving and Congress as cowards who serve the rich, that is a drastic improvement in public consciousness.

If you are referring to his non-staffing and gutting of the EPA and the way Betsy DeVos runs her department - that is terrible, but it is the long-standing philosophy of the GOP right (see Bush's EPA which withdrew from Kyoto; I forgot to mention that above and it was one of the most important negative decisions in recent history)
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I think the public has have more confidence in its institutions across the board, not just on ones where a particular person has a political interest in.
 
berbatrick said:


I don't want to get into Barbara Bush good/bad takes but Joy Reid was blatantly using her death to whitewash the rest of her (absolutely awful) family. The context is that Karla Tucker was a death row inmate in Bush's Texas.

Edit - fecking tucker carlson was disgusted by W there.
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the bushes employed karl rove and scooter libby and lee atwater. joy reid is clueless as usual
 
berbatrick said:
The context is that Karla Tucker was a death row inmate in Bush's Texas.
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Who was on death row for murdering two people with a pickaxe during a robbery... according to Tucker’s testimony in court, the second person’s murder caused her to orgasm each time the pickaxe struck the victim.
 
Carolina Red said:
Who was on death row for murdering two people with a pickaxe during a robbery... according to Tucker’s testimony in court, the second person’s murder caused her to orgasm each time the pickaxe struck the victim.
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Seems like W had a similar reaction to signing off on her death warrant
 
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